Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit

GumboBC · 03-06-2005, 11:33 AM

I get to disagree with WHO!!!!! This statement is 100% false, but you are boozing, and so I will let it slide. Instead of arguing it, I will post the link to where I disproved it if need be.

If our OFFENSE is to blame for our poor defense, then ... we should be concentrating on OFFENSE in free-agency. Should we not?!

If our OFFENSE was the problem, saintwhodi, why are you so hell bent on us getting DEFENSIVE players? Makes no sense to me...

It seems you think DEFENSE is our biggest area of need but you say the OFFENSE is the problem?

saintswhodi · 03-06-2005, 11:55 AM

If our OFFENSE is to blame for our poor defense, then ... we should be concentrating on OFFENSE in free-agency. Should we not?!

If our OFFENSE was the problem, saintwhodi, why are you so hell bent on us getting DEFENSIVE players? Makes no sense to me...

It seems you think DEFENSE is our biggest area of need but you say the OFFENSE is the problem?

I ain\'t gonna get into this with you again, but I love misquotes. I NEVER said the offense made the dfense BAD, I said the defense was BAD and the offense made it look WORSE. Understand the difference? Seems pretty simple to me. If a girl has buck teeth, you may say that girl is ugly. If that girl has a bad haircut and acne on top of buck teeth, you would probably call her hideous. See the difference? That\'s why we need to get better players on defense.

Last time, in caps: THE OFFENSE DID NOT MAKE THE DEFENSE BAD. A SUB_PAR OFFENSE MADE A BAD DEFENSE LOOK WORSE.

I don\'t want the defense to have to cover the O\'s mistakes, I would prefer the defense be dominant in its own right and it does not appear we are trying to accomplish that. Also, the problem that I feel is the biggest on the O is not being addressed and won\'t be, so that leaves fixing the defense and making it better regardless of the O as a better alternative. Maybe we can hold teams for 4 quarters with a better D until the O decides to show up.

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

[Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

GumboBC · 03-06-2005, 12:03 PM

saintwhodi --

I can\'t say I disagree with any of that.

However, I think it was the lack of a running game that hurt the offense more than anything else.

Teams don\'t get away from running the football if they are averaging 4-yards per carry. Simply put, we couldn\'t run the football with any consistency.

If we could have averaged somewhere around 4 yards per carry, it would have helped our defense. So, yeah, our offense certainly didn\'t help our pathetic defense. I agree.

Most of the reasons for that was our offensive line, an injured Deuce McAllister, and no back-up that could carry the load.

I understand what you\'re saying and I think I agree.

How\'s that?

saintswhodi · 03-06-2005, 12:16 PM

WHOA!!! Hold the phone!!! Did I just read this:

I understand what you\'re saying and I think I agree.

I have no words............

I agreed with Kool on this in another post, and I will do the same. It\'s off the A-Train, but here\'s the deal. If we get Miller too, I will cut the team some slack. That is two definite moves to improve our line, which can only help the D. I STILL want impact defensive players, but I think we all do. But if we fix the line, A NEED is being addressed, so I will agree. I still don\'t know why we are looking at A-Train, but I am gonna give ground on that too. He has to be better than KiJana Carter or Lamar Smith. So, because of you and Kool, I am taking a step back. But, if the remaining LBs fly off the board without a visit, I won\'t be too happy. This guy :EVILLE: is waiting to come back.

JKool · 03-06-2005, 12:32 PM

That guy is scary...

eer:

JKool · 03-06-2005, 12:33 PM

If Mayberry is our only move on the OL, I\'m not ready to call that much of an improvement though. I think we need Mayberry and a RT. That would be a substantial improvement!

saintswhodi · 03-06-2005, 12:52 PM

Yeah Kool, that guy scares me too.

But IF we do add Miller, I will be okay cause trading Howard will still create enough of a surplus in the cap where we could still get a big time defensive free agent(whoever is left). I just read from Gumbo and JoeSam though that Bell failed a physical for the Giants, so he may be out of the running. That leaves Hartwell, Darren Sharper, poss trade for Jamie Sharper, Or a RFA such as Will Witherspoon. OR, we may keep Howard, and be trying to work a long time deal. As much as I like Howard, that is the worst option to me. What happens when Grant\'s contract comes up? It will be the same situation. Plus Howard\'s injuries make him unreliable. But, I will be happy with the O line moves if we add Miller, or even pork chop Womack. I would prefer him though cause he is much younger, and we won;t be talking about his decline in 2 years like Gandy\'s.

mutineer10 · 03-06-2005, 01:27 PM

I agree that backup RB is a lesser need (I agree the OL & D need the most attention), but I like the A-Train. He\'s an underrated and undervalued back, plus he\'s a bit of a bruiser. If the Saints could sign him at a value price (and it\'s been pointed out he\'s a Louisiana native), I wouldn\'t complain.

He\'d be an excellent short yardage, change of pace guy. And really, that would give us one of each, which is an interesting prospect. We\'d have Deuce as the primary back, a bruiser in A-Train, and the \"scat back\" in Stecker. That could work...

JKool · 03-06-2005, 02:49 PM

Whodi,

I think Womack will be (much) cheaper, and I am a fan, but Miller is a bit more proven than Womack. I\'m not sure what I think about a lineman at 9 years experience. Many OLinemen can play well into 14 seasons before they really start hurting (it is a faster rate of decline at LT than RT and faster at both of those than any of OG or C).

Miller:

Fred Miller has proven to be a solid right tackle for the Tennessee Titans. He may not be the most athletic at his position, but Miller will provide consistent effort and does not shy away from hard work. Dedicated to the craft, he has become a better player in his later years. At times he will have trouble getting to the second line of defense, but it isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t due to a lack of effort. Plays well and aggressively in the short space and lacks the lateral movement to be a top-tier pass blocker. Due to his strong hands and adequate use of leverage, Miller can dominate in the run-blocking game.

Womack:

Floyd Womack has the size and physical ability, but has never been able to put his game together. He has shown the ability to fend of power rushers, but is at times beaten by speed rushers due to his inadequate lateral movement. Can be a physical presence and at times appears to be a force from either the guard or tackle position. Versatility is an asset Womack possesses and he must gain consistency to be anything more than a reserve lineman at this stage of his career.

Link: http://scout.scout.com

saintswhodi · 03-06-2005, 04:11 PM

Both interesting but pork chop has more upside as it seems. Miller is more established, but when does the decline start? Gandy is 34 and you can see his talent going downhill. I am leery of that. At least with a young guy, you KNOW he can get better. Once an old player starts getting older, you are stuck with what you have. And Womack will not command as much money. But, either/or. We still aren\'t talking about a defensive player signing.

03-06-2005, 11:33 AM	#21
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit I get to disagree with WHO!!!!! This statement is 100% false, but you are boozing, and so I will let it slide. Instead of arguing it, I will post the link to where I disproved it if need be. If our OFFENSE is to blame for our poor defense, then ... we should be concentrating on OFFENSE in free-agency. Should we not?! If our OFFENSE was the problem, saintwhodi, why are you so hell bent on us getting DEFENSIVE players? Makes no sense to me... It seems you think DEFENSE is our biggest area of need but you say the OFFENSE is the problem?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-06-2005, 11:55 AM	#22
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit If our OFFENSE is to blame for our poor defense, then ... we should be concentrating on OFFENSE in free-agency. Should we not?! If our OFFENSE was the problem, saintwhodi, why are you so hell bent on us getting DEFENSIVE players? Makes no sense to me... It seems you think DEFENSE is our biggest area of need but you say the OFFENSE is the problem? I ain\'t gonna get into this with you again, but I love misquotes. I NEVER said the offense made the dfense BAD, I said the defense was BAD and the offense made it look WORSE. Understand the difference? Seems pretty simple to me. If a girl has buck teeth, you may say that girl is ugly. If that girl has a bad haircut and acne on top of buck teeth, you would probably call her hideous. See the difference? That\'s why we need to get better players on defense. Last time, in caps: THE OFFENSE DID NOT MAKE THE DEFENSE BAD. A SUB_PAR OFFENSE MADE A BAD DEFENSE LOOK WORSE. I don\'t want the defense to have to cover the O\'s mistakes, I would prefer the defense be dominant in its own right and it does not appear we are trying to accomplish that. Also, the problem that I feel is the biggest on the O is not being addressed and won\'t be, so that leaves fixing the defense and making it better regardless of the O as a better alternative. Maybe we can hold teams for 4 quarters with a better D until the O decides to show up. [Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi] [Edited on 6/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

03-06-2005, 12:03 PM	#23
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit saintwhodi -- I can\'t say I disagree with any of that. However, I think it was the lack of a running game that hurt the offense more than anything else. Teams don\'t get away from running the football if they are averaging 4-yards per carry. Simply put, we couldn\'t run the football with any consistency. If we could have averaged somewhere around 4 yards per carry, it would have helped our defense. So, yeah, our offense certainly didn\'t help our pathetic defense. I agree. Most of the reasons for that was our offensive line, an injured Deuce McAllister, and no back-up that could carry the load. I understand what you\'re saying and I think I agree. How\'s that?
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-06-2005, 12:16 PM	#24
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit WHOA!!! Hold the phone!!! Did I just read this: I understand what you\'re saying and I think I agree. I have no words............ I agreed with Kool on this in another post, and I will do the same. It\'s off the A-Train, but here\'s the deal. If we get Miller too, I will cut the team some slack. That is two definite moves to improve our line, which can only help the D. I STILL want impact defensive players, but I think we all do. But if we fix the line, A NEED is being addressed, so I will agree. I still don\'t know why we are looking at A-Train, but I am gonna give ground on that too. He has to be better than KiJana Carter or Lamar Smith. So, because of you and Kool, I am taking a step back. But, if the remaining LBs fly off the board without a visit, I won\'t be too happy. This guy :EVILLE: is waiting to come back.

03-06-2005, 12:32 PM	#25
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit That guy is scary... eer:

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03-06-2005, 12:33 PM	#26
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit If Mayberry is our only move on the OL, I\'m not ready to call that much of an improvement though. I think we need Mayberry and a RT. That would be a substantial improvement!

03-06-2005, 12:52 PM	#27
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit Yeah Kool, that guy scares me too. But IF we do add Miller, I will be okay cause trading Howard will still create enough of a surplus in the cap where we could still get a big time defensive free agent(whoever is left). I just read from Gumbo and JoeSam though that Bell failed a physical for the Giants, so he may be out of the running. That leaves Hartwell, Darren Sharper, poss trade for Jamie Sharper, Or a RFA such as Will Witherspoon. OR, we may keep Howard, and be trying to work a long time deal. As much as I like Howard, that is the worst option to me. What happens when Grant\'s contract comes up? It will be the same situation. Plus Howard\'s injuries make him unreliable. But, I will be happy with the O line moves if we add Miller, or even pork chop Womack. I would prefer him though cause he is much younger, and we won;t be talking about his decline in 2 years like Gandy\'s.

03-06-2005, 01:27 PM	#28
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit I agree that backup RB is a lesser need (I agree the OL & D need the most attention), but I like the A-Train. He\'s an underrated and undervalued back, plus he\'s a bit of a bruiser. If the Saints could sign him at a value price (and it\'s been pointed out he\'s a Louisiana native), I wouldn\'t complain. He\'d be an excellent short yardage, change of pace guy. And really, that would give us one of each, which is an interesting prospect. We\'d have Deuce as the primary back, a bruiser in A-Train, and the \"scat back\" in Stecker. That could work...

03-06-2005, 02:49 PM	#29
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit Whodi, I think Womack will be (much) cheaper, and I am a fan, but Miller is a bit more proven than Womack. I\'m not sure what I think about a lineman at 9 years experience. Many OLinemen can play well into 14 seasons before they really start hurting (it is a faster rate of decline at LT than RT and faster at both of those than any of OG or C). Miller: Fred Miller has proven to be a solid right tackle for the Tennessee Titans. He may not be the most athletic at his position, but Miller will provide consistent effort and does not shy away from hard work. Dedicated to the craft, he has become a better player in his later years. At times he will have trouble getting to the second line of defense, but it isnÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢t due to a lack of effort. Plays well and aggressively in the short space and lacks the lateral movement to be a top-tier pass blocker. Due to his strong hands and adequate use of leverage, Miller can dominate in the run-blocking game. Womack: Floyd Womack has the size and physical ability, but has never been able to put his game together. He has shown the ability to fend of power rushers, but is at times beaten by speed rushers due to his inadequate lateral movement. Can be a physical presence and at times appears to be a force from either the guard or tackle position. Versatility is an asset Womack possesses and he must gain consistency to be anything more than a reserve lineman at this stage of his career. Link: http://scout.scout.com

03-06-2005, 04:11 PM	#30
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Anthony "The-A-Train" Thomas to visit Both interesting but pork chop has more upside as it seems. Miller is more established, but when does the decline start? Gandy is 34 and you can see his talent going downhill. I am leery of that. At least with a young guy, you KNOW he can get better. Once an old player starts getting older, you are stuck with what you have. And Womack will not command as much money. But, either/or. We still aren\'t talking about a defensive player signing.