Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

NOLA54 · 07-25-2016, 08:26 PM

I can't take another loosing season.

WillSaints81 · 07-25-2016, 09:18 PM

Um, yes it did skip a beat. Scoring most points in the second half does not mean not skipping a beat. I swear if we are like up 13-10 against Oakland in the first half I am going to be disappointed.

WillSaints81 · 07-25-2016, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

Not sure that's the case. We have the 2010 season as a sample. The offense dropped from 1st to 11th in scoring from 2009 while the defense rose from the low 20s to the top 10. Team ended up 11-5, which while ending up a small step back, certainly wasn't a complete disaster.

Also there's no substantive evidence that the offense is going to be significantly different that it's been in the past. As a scientist I'm a strong believer that past performance mitigated by changes are a strong predictor of future expectations. Considering the performance of the offense last year, coupled with what are effectively minor changes in the offseason, there's no reason to believe that the offense will be much different than it's been in the past. Frankly if the offense was really going to take a step back it should have been last year when Graham was traded. He was a major cog in how the offense operated. But it didn't miss a beat.

SFIAH

And we also had one of the easier schedules too. We could have lost at SF, at home against Sea, against Pittsburgh, at Cincinatti easily. Drew was playing hurt though. Still, I do not want to have a season like this again. This would be like 2013.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-25-2016, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

Um, yes it did skip a beat. Scoring most points in the second half does not mean not skipping a beat. I swear if we are like up 13-10 against Oakland in the first half I am going to be disappointed.

I'd be perfectly happy with that as a halftime score. It means that the defense is holding its own against a pretty good offense.

The Saints offense isn't going to score 14 points a quarter every quarter. Halftime scores of 17-7, 14-7, or even 13-10 represent a good foundation towards winning a game.

SFIAH

homerj07 · 07-25-2016, 09:46 PM

WillSaints81 · 07-25-2016, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I'd be perfectly happy with that as a halftime score. It means that the defense is holding its own against a pretty good offense.

The Saints offense isn't going to score 14 points a quarter every quarter. Halftime scores of 17-7, 14-7, or even 13-10 represent a good foundation towards winning a game.

SFIAH

The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green. Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO. We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong.

I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 07-26-2016, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green.

Dude is in his third year. No longer green.

Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO.

We're talking about the first half right? That's what I based my discussion on. Also I was focused on the defense. A 13 point half means that you've driven and scored the ball 3 times. While it certainly isn't perfect because at least one of the FG should be a TD, it isn't a total wipeout either IMHO.

We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong.

Part of that is attributable to the really really really awful defense too. A defense that for the last two years couldn't get out of its way and get off the field.

Brees threw for 32 TD passes last year, an average a bit above 2 per game. The defense gave up an NFL record 45 TD passes. That's nearly 3 per game.

What you are remembering is a team that played complementary football. A defense that would get the ball back for the offense giving more time and more possessions. A defense that would take the ball away giving more opportunities and a shorter field. A quick strike offense that would run up the score making the defense's job easier. Just think of the number of times last year the Saints offense had to slog 80 yards down the field to score. That's where that dominance you crave disappeared to because complementary football like that hasn't existed for at least a couple of years.

But it doesn't take much to turn it around. We saw an example 3 years ago when the Saints defense finished high up in the rankings for yards, points, and turnovers.

But right now I just don't think that it's a good idea to pin hopes on past dominance. While it is possible that the defense will surprise like 2009 and 2013, it's more likely it's going to be a work in progress. But I do believe that all the defense needs to do is provide a bit of drag to the opposition to change the tenor of more games.

I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury.

Improve it exactly how? To me this feels like the flip side of the constant argument I have with my brother, who wants the Saints to run the ball like LSU does with Fournette. First it's not going to happen, and second it's unclear exactly how doing so helps the situation.

In both of the Panther's games last year the Saints had enough offensive firepower to win the game. But you cannot expect to win games when you give up 27 and 41 points in a game. You simply cannot win shootouts with teams who have defenses that can put some drag on the opposition when your defense cannot.

There's no reason to worry about the Panthers. The Saints just need to take care of their own business.

SFIAH

dizzle88 · 07-26-2016, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green. Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO. We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong.

I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury.

It doesn't matter who the QB is when they face our defense.

I personally think he is a very good QB with not enough help, we let Jameis Winston and Marcus mariota torch us, Winston threw multiple interceptions the week prior and then lit us up.

Until our D proves otherwise, we are a below .500 team.

hagan714 · 07-26-2016, 07:34 AM

Based on last years 7-9 record I say 8-8 is the starting place, just with DA at the helm.

Concerns? loss of Watson and a bunch of young WRs. points per game should take a hit

I am still at 8-8 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm.

Concern? Loss of Hau'oli and the depth at DE a huge question mark.

I am still at 8-8 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm.

Getting the idea? DA is the key

dizzle88 · 07-26-2016, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Based on last years 7-9 record I say 9-9 is the starting place, just with DA at the helm.

Concerns? loss of Watson and a bunch of young WRs. points per game should take a hit

I am still at 9-9 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm.

Concern? Loss of Hau'oli and the depth at DE a huge question mark.

I am still at 9-9 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm.

Getting the idea? DA is the key

I think i get the idea but do you mean 8-8 or 9-7? Lol only 16 games buddy

07-25-2016, 08:26 PM	#11
NOLA54 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,708 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense I can't take another loosing season.

07-25-2016, 09:18 PM	#12
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Um, yes it did skip a beat. Scoring most points in the second half does not mean not skipping a beat. I swear if we are like up 13-10 against Oakland in the first half I am going to be disappointed.

07-25-2016, 09:21 PM	#13
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL Not sure that's the case. We have the 2010 season as a sample. The offense dropped from 1st to 11th in scoring from 2009 while the defense rose from the low 20s to the top 10. Team ended up 11-5, which while ending up a small step back, certainly wasn't a complete disaster. Also there's no substantive evidence that the offense is going to be significantly different that it's been in the past. As a scientist I'm a strong believer that past performance mitigated by changes are a strong predictor of future expectations. Considering the performance of the offense last year, coupled with what are effectively minor changes in the offseason, there's no reason to believe that the offense will be much different than it's been in the past. Frankly if the offense was really going to take a step back it should have been last year when Graham was traded. He was a major cog in how the offense operated. But it didn't miss a beat. SFIAH And we also had one of the easier schedules too. We could have lost at SF, at home against Sea, against Pittsburgh, at Cincinatti easily. Drew was playing hurt though. Still, I do not want to have a season like this again. This would be like 2013.

07-25-2016, 09:41 PM	#14
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 Um, yes it did skip a beat. Scoring most points in the second half does not mean not skipping a beat. I swear if we are like up 13-10 against Oakland in the first half I am going to be disappointed. I'd be perfectly happy with that as a halftime score. It means that the defense is holding its own against a pretty good offense. The Saints offense isn't going to score 14 points a quarter every quarter. Halftime scores of 17-7, 14-7, or even 13-10 represent a good foundation towards winning a game. SFIAH spkb25 likes this.

07-25-2016, 09:46 PM	#15
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

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07-25-2016, 11:54 PM	#16
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I'd be perfectly happy with that as a halftime score. It means that the defense is holding its own against a pretty good offense. The Saints offense isn't going to score 14 points a quarter every quarter. Halftime scores of 17-7, 14-7, or even 13-10 represent a good foundation towards winning a game. SFIAH The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green. Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO. We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong. I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury.

07-26-2016, 01:40 AM	#17
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green. Dude is in his third year. No longer green. Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO. We're talking about the first half right? That's what I based my discussion on. Also I was focused on the defense. A 13 point half means that you've driven and scored the ball 3 times. While it certainly isn't perfect because at least one of the FG should be a TD, it isn't a total wipeout either IMHO. We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong. Part of that is attributable to the really really really awful defense too. A defense that for the last two years couldn't get out of its way and get off the field. Brees threw for 32 TD passes last year, an average a bit above 2 per game. The defense gave up an NFL record 45 TD passes. That's nearly 3 per game. What you are remembering is a team that played complementary football. A defense that would get the ball back for the offense giving more time and more possessions. A defense that would take the ball away giving more opportunities and a shorter field. A quick strike offense that would run up the score making the defense's job easier. Just think of the number of times last year the Saints offense had to slog 80 yards down the field to score. That's where that dominance you crave disappeared to because complementary football like that hasn't existed for at least a couple of years. But it doesn't take much to turn it around. We saw an example 3 years ago when the Saints defense finished high up in the rankings for yards, points, and turnovers. But right now I just don't think that it's a good idea to pin hopes on past dominance. While it is possible that the defense will surprise like 2009 and 2013, it's more likely it's going to be a work in progress. But I do believe that all the defense needs to do is provide a bit of drag to the opposition to change the tenor of more games. I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury. Improve it exactly how? To me this feels like the flip side of the constant argument I have with my brother, who wants the Saints to run the ball like LSU does with Fournette. First it's not going to happen, and second it's unclear exactly how doing so helps the situation. In both of the Panther's games last year the Saints had enough offensive firepower to win the game. But you cannot expect to win games when you give up 27 and 41 points in a game. You simply cannot win shootouts with teams who have defenses that can put some drag on the opposition when your defense cannot. There's no reason to worry about the Panthers. The Saints just need to take care of their own business. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

07-26-2016, 06:58 AM	#18
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,182	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 The raiders are not a very good offense yet. Carr is still a bit green. Drew only getting one TD in a home opener is NOT representative of the Drew that first came to NO. We're supposed to be special at home. Against anybody. We sent messages like that to NE and GB in these kind of games. I can see with my own eyes the offense is not scoring the way it used to. We don't get off to so many big offensive starts anymore. That cannot be attributed to Drew's age. Not punching it in against Detroit, Philadelphia are not good signs of the offense still going strong. I feel that the only way saints will win the division not improving the offense will be a Cam season ending injury. It doesn't matter who the QB is when they face our defense. I personally think he is a very good QB with not enough help, we let Jameis Winston and Marcus mariota torch us, Winston threw multiple interceptions the week prior and then lit us up. Until our D proves otherwise, we are a below .500 team.

07-26-2016, 07:34 AM	#19
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Based on last years 7-9 record I say 8-8 is the starting place, just with DA at the helm. Concerns? loss of Watson and a bunch of young WRs. points per game should take a hit I am still at 8-8 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm. Concern? Loss of Hau'oli and the depth at DE a huge question mark. I am still at 8-8 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm. Getting the idea? DA is the key
	Last edited by hagan714; 07-26-2016 at 07:55 AM..

07-26-2016, 07:51 AM	#20
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,182	Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense Originally Posted by hagan714 Based on last years 7-9 record I say 9-9 is the starting place, just with DA at the helm. Concerns? loss of Watson and a bunch of young WRs. points per game should take a hit I am still at 9-9 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm. Concern? Loss of Hau'oli and the depth at DE a huge question mark. I am still at 9-9 for the saints before the season starts with DA at the helm. Getting the idea? DA is the key I think i get the idea but do you mean 8-8 or 9-7? Lol only 16 games buddy hagan714 likes this.

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