We don't even know it's that bad.

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Im sure the Colts said the same. Im sure most 49ers thought the world ended after Montana. The Pats were up a creak when Bledsoe went down. Succesful team long term move on a year too early thsn s year too late

The 49er's already had what they knew was something special in reserve on the roster. The Colts knew they had what was widely accepted as the most sure fire QB in decades as the first pick. The Pats example is not even relevant because Bledsoe couldn't hold Brees' jockstrap and they already had Brady on the roster. Getting rid of Brees might not be one year early and may end up being ten years too early. Hell, we may never luck up upon another QB as good as Brees will most likely still be three years from now for twenty years.

Your examples suck.

lee909 · 08-28-2016, 09:54 PM

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

The Dude · 08-28-2016, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

I wanted defense and have no issue with Rankins pick. The issue was spending 4ml on the likes of Spiller,Fleener and Browner instead of filling out the guard positions with the likes of Mathis,Alex Boone,Clint Boling, Stefen Wisniewski or Richie Incognito. Could easily have got at least one if not two of them under the cap. Nobody will convince me 8ml a year for Spiller and Ingram is worth the money (and i like Ingram) but we never get 16 games a year from them. Same with well overpaying Fleener.

I understand the Byrd deal at the time,he was one of the top FS in the NFL but the background on his injuries were obviously not looked into

I'm still puzzled as to why we let both Grubbs and Evans go at the same time with no legit plans to fill those shoes. As old as they are both are still above average players and are a hell of a lot better than what we have now. They are waiting to see how cuts shake out. Minnisotta has several good lineman and can't keep all.
We may wind up with an upgrade yet.

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

Brady took over because Bledsoe was injured. Bledsoe was no where near as talented as Brees is right now. Why keep using that poor example.

And the money is there in the cap to easily retain Brees. I don't know where you are getting this bogus info you are trying to palm off about dead money and such. That's bullcrap. The cap is projected to keep rising at even a greater rate than it has over the past few years. The days of caps being overtly restrictive are about to become extinct.

And I do know what would happen if Brees is not re-signed without a surefire replacement. The Saints will quickly return to being the dregs of the league with five win seasons be the norm. There are probably only ten QB's currently in the league which can be argued as being as good as Brees is right now. We would be fighting with twenty-one other teams for the services of a less than stellar QB.To get a really good one we will need to pay huge numbers. But, isn't that what you are *****ing about now? You get the point?

The point is that whatever we sign Brees to will be surpassed by inferior QBs just based upon the growing market rate. That's why letting Brees go makes no sense whatsoever.

The Dude · 08-28-2016, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

I just dont see how a rational sane person can put having back to back bad seasons on Brees when the defenses were back to back the worst in NFL history. They have had a top 5 offense for the past decade just about. There is nothing wrong with our QB other than the fact that they didnt take out an insurance policy by getting him a line to play behind. They have had success in the past developing lineman and they have had years to get ready for this point in Brees career. Getting rid of both Evans and Grubbs was stupid.

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

I'm still puzzled as to why we let both Grubbs and Evans go at the same time with no legit plans to fill those shoes. As old as they are both are still above average players and are a hell of a lot better than what we have now. They are waiting to see how cuts shake out. Minnisotta has several good lineman and can't keep all.
We may wind up with an upgrade yet.

How can you say Grubbs is superior to what we have now when he can't even pass a physical and is at home on the couch? And how can you say Evans is better than what we have now when he is currently penciled in at third string LG and is likely to be released by Seattle? They are not above average players. They are both well below average.

saintshrimp · 08-28-2016, 10:20 PM

Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

It is fact, shrimp. Grubbs can't even pass a physical and Evans is about to be cut. While we may be lacking at guard right now, Gruubs and Evans were not the answer, but were part of the problem. To be honest, we won't know that Peat isn't going to be the answer at RG. Once the season progresses he may prove to be functional. The same could be said at LG. We really have to wait and see. Clearly, the front office saw what other teams are now verifying, that Grubbs and Evans simply can't cut it.

saintshrimp · 08-28-2016, 10:56 PM

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

Brees' agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent. On two separate occasions Manning and Condon went into the final year of Manning's contract and managed to negotiate and re-sign with the Colts on both occasions following the contract's final season. Do not assume that the Saints would be forced to franchise Brees. Brees is likely to be able to be signed at $25M per year, fully guaranteed. A younger free agent QB that is capable of starting will most likely be getting at least that much in the next two years. A point you are missing is that RB pay scales have decreased as much as QB pay scales have increased. The money is shifting across the entire league. We are not far away from mediocre QB's demanding $30M per year. In fact, the 2019 cap is being estimated at $180M per team. It can easily be higher than that as network deals are renewed on a rolling basis every couple of years or so.

08-28-2016, 09:24 PM	#31
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 Im sure the Colts said the same. Im sure most 49ers thought the world ended after Montana. The Pats were up a creak when Bledsoe went down. Succesful team long term move on a year too early thsn s year too late The 49er's already had what they knew was something special in reserve on the roster. The Colts knew they had what was widely accepted as the most sure fire QB in decades as the first pick. The Pats example is not even relevant because Bledsoe couldn't hold Brees' jockstrap and they already had Brady on the roster. Getting rid of Brees might not be one year early and may end up being ten years too early. Hell, we may never luck up upon another QB as good as Brees will most likely still be three years from now for twenty years. Your examples suck.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2016, 09:54 PM	#32
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon saintshrimp likes this.
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08-28-2016, 09:54 PM	#33
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 I wanted defense and have no issue with Rankins pick. The issue was spending 4ml on the likes of Spiller,Fleener and Browner instead of filling out the guard positions with the likes of Mathis,Alex Boone,Clint Boling, Stefen Wisniewski or Richie Incognito. Could easily have got at least one if not two of them under the cap. Nobody will convince me 8ml a year for Spiller and Ingram is worth the money (and i like Ingram) but we never get 16 games a year from them. Same with well overpaying Fleener. I understand the Byrd deal at the time,he was one of the top FS in the NFL but the background on his injuries were obviously not looked into I'm still puzzled as to why we let both Grubbs and Evans go at the same time with no legit plans to fill those shoes. As old as they are both are still above average players and are a hell of a lot better than what we have now. They are waiting to see how cuts shake out. Minnisotta has several good lineman and can't keep all. We may wind up with an upgrade yet. Rugby Saint II likes this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

08-28-2016, 10:12 PM	#34
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon Brady took over because Bledsoe was injured. Bledsoe was no where near as talented as Brees is right now. Why keep using that poor example. And the money is there in the cap to easily retain Brees. I don't know where you are getting this bogus info you are trying to palm off about dead money and such. That's bullcrap. The cap is projected to keep rising at even a greater rate than it has over the past few years. The days of caps being overtly restrictive are about to become extinct. And I do know what would happen if Brees is not re-signed without a surefire replacement. The Saints will quickly return to being the dregs of the league with five win seasons be the norm. There are probably only ten QB's currently in the league which can be argued as being as good as Brees is right now. We would be fighting with twenty-one other teams for the services of a less than stellar QB.To get a really good one we will need to pay huge numbers. But, isn't that what you are *****ing about now? You get the point? The point is that whatever we sign Brees to will be surpassed by inferior QBs just based upon the growing market rate. That's why letting Brees go makes no sense whatsoever. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2016, 10:17 PM	#35
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon I just dont see how a rational sane person can put having back to back bad seasons on Brees when the defenses were back to back the worst in NFL history. They have had a top 5 offense for the past decade just about. There is nothing wrong with our QB other than the fact that they didnt take out an insurance policy by getting him a line to play behind. They have had success in the past developing lineman and they have had years to get ready for this point in Brees career. Getting rid of both Evans and Grubbs was stupid. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	"Where life had no value, death, sometimes, had its price. That is why the bounty killers appeared."

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08-28-2016, 10:18 PM	#36
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by The Dude I'm still puzzled as to why we let both Grubbs and Evans go at the same time with no legit plans to fill those shoes. As old as they are both are still above average players and are a hell of a lot better than what we have now. They are waiting to see how cuts shake out. Minnisotta has several good lineman and can't keep all. We may wind up with an upgrade yet. How can you say Grubbs is superior to what we have now when he can't even pass a physical and is at home on the couch? And how can you say Evans is better than what we have now when he is currently penciled in at third string LG and is likely to be released by Seattle? They are not above average players. They are both well below average. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.

08-28-2016, 10:20 PM	#37
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

08-28-2016, 10:26 PM	#38
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people It is fact, shrimp. Grubbs can't even pass a physical and Evans is about to be cut. While we may be lacking at guard right now, Gruubs and Evans were not the answer, but were part of the problem. To be honest, we won't know that Peat isn't going to be the answer at RG. Once the season progresses he may prove to be functional. The same could be said at LG. We really have to wait and see. Clearly, the front office saw what other teams are now verifying, that Grubbs and Evans simply can't cut it.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2016, 10:56 PM	#39
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent . The Dude likes this.

08-28-2016, 11:17 PM	#40
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent . Brees' agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent. On two separate occasions Manning and Condon went into the final year of Manning's contract and managed to negotiate and re-sign with the Colts on both occasions following the contract's final season. Do not assume that the Saints would be forced to franchise Brees. Brees is likely to be able to be signed at $25M per year, fully guaranteed. A younger free agent QB that is capable of starting will most likely be getting at least that much in the next two years. A point you are missing is that RB pay scales have decreased as much as QB pay scales have increased. The money is shifting across the entire league. We are not far away from mediocre QB's demanding $30M per year. In fact, the 2019 cap is being estimated at $180M per team. It can easily be higher than that as network deals are renewed on a rolling basis every couple of years or so.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

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