We don't even know it's that bad.

lee909 · 08-28-2016, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

I really don't think it's as much players as it is the front office and coaching. Think about it
We are in a bad cap situation cause bad deals that have been cut or traded away
Haven't had alot of draft picks overall because of trading up
Swing and miss in free agency over and over
Give huge deals for mediocre play except contract years
Draft classes have been crappy hardly ever find anyone
When we do find a good draft pick we don't develop said pick

Ive said a few times i think the root of the problem is at board room level. It doesn't look like Bensons is running things either he's dostracted by family issues,or isnt capable at his age. Now if he had a msn running it that would be fine but the man who seems in charge is Loomis and that means Loomis isnt under pressure as a GM,and he is unlikely to rock the boat with Payton. The coaches except the DC under Payton look untouchavle no matter how badly their units perform.

With a leader at the helm to steer the ship it will run off course. Any other GM thats drafted as bad and overpaid as many FA as he has would be on the hot seat

CheramieIII · 08-28-2016, 08:06 PM

We won't really know what we have until the first game is over.

lee909 · 08-28-2016, 08:54 PM

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

Brady took over because Bledsoe was injured. Bledsoe was no where near as talented as Brees is right now. Why keep using that poor example.

And the money is there in the cap to easily retain Brees. I don't know where you are getting this bogus info you are trying to palm off about dead money and such. That's bullcrap. The cap is projected to keep rising at even a greater rate than it has over the past few years. The days of caps being overtly restrictive are about to become extinct.

And I do know what would happen if Brees is not re-signed without a surefire replacement. The Saints will quickly return to being the dregs of the league with five win seasons be the norm. There are probably only ten QB's currently in the league which can be argued as being as good as Brees is right now. We would be fighting with twenty-one other teams for the services of a less than stellar QB.To get a really good one we will need to pay huge numbers. But, isn't that what you are *****ing about now? You get the point?

The point is that whatever we sign Brees to will be surpassed by inferior QBs just based upon the growing market rate. That's why letting Brees go makes no sense whatsoever.

The Dude · 08-28-2016, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by lee909

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

I just dont see how a rational sane person can put having back to back bad seasons on Brees when the defenses were back to back the worst in NFL history. They have had a top 5 offense for the past decade just about. There is nothing wrong with our QB other than the fact that they didnt take out an insurance policy by getting him a line to play behind. They have had success in the past developing lineman and they have had years to get ready for this point in Brees career. Getting rid of both Evans and Grubbs was stupid.

saintshrimp · 08-28-2016, 09:20 PM

Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

It is fact, shrimp. Grubbs can't even pass a physical and Evans is about to be cut. While we may be lacking at guard right now, Gruubs and Evans were not the answer, but were part of the problem. To be honest, we won't know that Peat isn't going to be the answer at RG. Once the season progresses he may prove to be functional. The same could be said at LG. We really have to wait and see. Clearly, the front office saw what other teams are now verifying, that Grubbs and Evans simply can't cut it.

saintshrimp · 08-28-2016, 09:56 PM

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

AsylumGuido · 08-28-2016, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

Brees' agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent. On two separate occasions Manning and Condon went into the final year of Manning's contract and managed to negotiate and re-sign with the Colts on both occasions following the contract's final season. Do not assume that the Saints would be forced to franchise Brees. Brees is likely to be able to be signed at $25M per year, fully guaranteed. A younger free agent QB that is capable of starting will most likely be getting at least that much in the next two years. A point you are missing is that RB pay scales have decreased as much as QB pay scales have increased. The money is shifting across the entire league. We are not far away from mediocre QB's demanding $30M per year. In fact, the 2019 cap is being estimated at $180M per team. It can easily be higher than that as network deals are renewed on a rolling basis every couple of years or so.

The Dude · 08-29-2016, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by saintshrimp

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

And then we will need a Qb. And we won't be able to afford anyone decent so we would have to address that through the draft. If Drew wants to stay with the team he knows he has to give concessions when it comes to his salary or he may not live to see it through the season. Maybe he just doesn't want to play here anymore.

08-28-2016, 08:13 PM	#1
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp I really don't think it's as much players as it is the front office and coaching. Think about it We are in a bad cap situation cause bad deals that have been cut or traded away Haven't had alot of draft picks overall because of trading up Swing and miss in free agency over and over Give huge deals for mediocre play except contract years Draft classes have been crappy hardly ever find anyone When we do find a good draft pick we don't develop said pick Ive said a few times i think the root of the problem is at board room level. It doesn't look like Bensons is running things either he's dostracted by family issues,or isnt capable at his age. Now if he had a msn running it that would be fine but the man who seems in charge is Loomis and that means Loomis isnt under pressure as a GM,and he is unlikely to rock the boat with Payton. The coaches except the DC under Payton look untouchavle no matter how badly their units perform. With a leader at the helm to steer the ship it will run off course. Any other GM thats drafted as bad and overpaid as many FA as he has would be on the hot seat
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

08-28-2016, 08:06 PM	#2
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,497 Blog Entries: 3	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. We won't really know what we have until the first game is over.

08-28-2016, 08:54 PM	#3
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon saintshrimp likes this.
	"Two receivers to the left, Garcon to the right. Manning in the shotgun, puts Collie in motion. Looks in his direction...it's picked off! It's picked off! It's Tracy Porter again! He's runnin' free! He's gonna go all the way!

08-28-2016, 09:12 PM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,676	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon Brady took over because Bledsoe was injured. Bledsoe was no where near as talented as Brees is right now. Why keep using that poor example. And the money is there in the cap to easily retain Brees. I don't know where you are getting this bogus info you are trying to palm off about dead money and such. That's bullcrap. The cap is projected to keep rising at even a greater rate than it has over the past few years. The days of caps being overtly restrictive are about to become extinct. And I do know what would happen if Brees is not re-signed without a surefire replacement. The Saints will quickly return to being the dregs of the league with five win seasons be the norm. There are probably only ten QB's currently in the league which can be argued as being as good as Brees is right now. We would be fighting with twenty-one other teams for the services of a less than stellar QB.To get a really good one we will need to pay huge numbers. But, isn't that what you are *****ing about now? You get the point? The point is that whatever we sign Brees to will be surpassed by inferior QBs just based upon the growing market rate. That's why letting Brees go makes no sense whatsoever. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2016, 09:17 PM	#5
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by lee909 Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions. If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011? Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap. The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon I just dont see how a rational sane person can put having back to back bad seasons on Brees when the defenses were back to back the worst in NFL history. They have had a top 5 offense for the past decade just about. There is nothing wrong with our QB other than the fact that they didnt take out an insurance policy by getting him a line to play behind. They have had success in the past developing lineman and they have had years to get ready for this point in Brees career. Getting rid of both Evans and Grubbs was stupid. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060	"Where life had no value, death, sometimes, had its price. That is why the bounty killers appeared."

08-28-2016, 09:20 PM	#6
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

08-28-2016, 09:26 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,676	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people It is fact, shrimp. Grubbs can't even pass a physical and Evans is about to be cut. While we may be lacking at guard right now, Gruubs and Evans were not the answer, but were part of the problem. To be honest, we won't know that Peat isn't going to be the answer at RG. Once the season progresses he may prove to be functional. The same could be said at LG. We really have to wait and see. Clearly, the front office saw what other teams are now verifying, that Grubbs and Evans simply can't cut it.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-28-2016, 09:56 PM	#8
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent . The Dude likes this.

08-28-2016, 10:17 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,676	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent . Brees' agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent. On two separate occasions Manning and Condon went into the final year of Manning's contract and managed to negotiate and re-sign with the Colts on both occasions following the contract's final season. Do not assume that the Saints would be forced to franchise Brees. Brees is likely to be able to be signed at $25M per year, fully guaranteed. A younger free agent QB that is capable of starting will most likely be getting at least that much in the next two years. A point you are missing is that RB pay scales have decreased as much as QB pay scales have increased. The money is shifting across the entire league. We are not far away from mediocre QB's demanding $30M per year. In fact, the 2019 cap is being estimated at $180M per team. It can easily be higher than that as network deals are renewed on a rolling basis every couple of years or so.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

08-29-2016, 12:34 PM	#10
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060	Re: We don't even know it's that bad. Originally Posted by saintshrimp Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent . And then we will need a Qb. And we won't be able to afford anyone decent so we would have to address that through the draft. If Drew wants to stay with the team he knows he has to give concessions when it comes to his salary or he may not live to see it through the season. Maybe he just doesn't want to play here anymore.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060

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