We don't even know it's that bad.
 

You guys amaze me sometimes. I'm negative and get called out on it all the time and rightfully so. All of you guys who have given up need to find a college team to watch. The preseason isn't even over. They don't game plan and sceme in these games. In the regular season this is where Payton's coaching will come into play. You can scheme and disguise plays to make up for lack of talent. He is still a good coach and has done more with less. All we have to do is win the division. The Panthers were right were we are two years ago. Their offense was made up of a bunch nobody's on offense.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

He's never had an offensive line so offensive... Brees has made his career on having a very good interior line which has always given him a decent pocket to work in...

No amount of scheming and game planning can make up for the lack of strength our guards have... Peat and Lelito are getting bulldozed from pure strength by the defense(who by the way aren't scheming/game planning either)...

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Lelito is back up material at best.

Boggles the mind this wasn't addressed last year.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I can't figure it out, for the life of me, either. Even when you have more holes than a slice of swiss cheese, you always make protecting your franchise QB priority #1. Yes, they acquired Unger, but other than that they haven't made an honest effort in addressing that problem. Many of us "uninformed" people scoffed at the Peat selection last year as it was... But then upon realizing that he can't handle the outside, they actually think he can just slide into the middle? His frame and slow reactions make him a terrible fit there.

I hope he improves, but right now I have to say that this team has really dropped the ball on this issue.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

which is why Pittsburgh's success the other night is so weird, how could that happen when they don't scheme. strange stuff

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

If I had to point to one glaring failure of the front office, its the OG issue.

We always address weaknesses with quality free agents allowing us to draft BPA.

For once, we didn't do that at OG.

Perhaps they thought Lelito and Kelemete would continue developing so they didn't see it as a need?

Perhaps the cap prevented us from addressing it? (Not buying that one)

Perhaps we thought the draft would provide plenty of options? We did sign a few UDFA's that were projected to be mid-rounders.

Perhaps they have a long list of vets they expect to get cut that could step in and help.

I don't know the inside story, but its definitely the 500 pound gorilla in the room.

Every other position was addressed (on paper) in some form or fashion.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

If we had that defense i wouldn't be worried

500 in the last 66 games. The team hasnt looked great since 2011 so i think its past scheming to cover issues. The excuses need to stop ad heads roll if this isnt a good season. But as i said last night until the ownership issue is sorted its a rudderless ship

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Payton likes his players to be able to play more than 1 position, maybe he needs to rethink and get players that can play 1 position well then teach them to play another.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Because Antonio Brown, that's why. Again, that Pittsburgh offense humiliated the Broncos defense last year. Made them look like a bunch of also rans. I fully expected they would put up points a plenty on us, and a little surprised that it wasn't more than what they did.

Bottom line is that you should all at least wait until the games count before you throw in the towel. There are concerns, yes.. but, 2 years ago Carolina started the year looking like a total f**king wreck. Until they turned it around, made the playoffs, then carried that success into last season and all the way to a super bowl appearance. I think some of us got too spoiled to winning and got to be a bunch of whiny asses. Let's not be "those" fans. I don't want to be compared to the "fan" bases in Dallas or San Francisco or Philadelphia. Bunch of fair weather p*ssies.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I dont get this whiny,given up nonsense

Nobody on here has whined or said it over. There are a number angry that the team has gine backwards in the past 5 years because of over paying FA,constantly chopping and changing the DC and scheme. Drafting for 4-3 for tears then changing to 3-4 drafting loads of players to fit then blowing it uo again to go back to 4-3. All this done while certain coaches seem to get away with underperforming units for years. Mostly because they are loyal friends of tbe coach.

The Panthers looked bad but they had a good QB and RB there. The line was getting better and they had one of the best defenses in the league to keep them in games.

You cannot win with bad lines on voth sides of the ball


Saying it was Antonio Brown wasnt correct either. He took 4 receptions of the 39 thrown to the team. The three Steelers QBs went 31-39 including Landry Jones who was intercepted last week 4 times in the first half

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Averaging nearly 8 penalties and 80 yards on flags per game. Over 350 ypg given up,25.7ppg

And 7 fumbles lost in three games

If people want to say that being angry at a team repeating the same mistakes is whining well thats up to them

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I don't think that was our defense. Why would saints risk the players getting hurt dealing with Antonio? I think saints went vanilla there.

Offense, no I don't think we did.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Calm down man, I'm not trying to talk bad about anyone or say you don't get to have an opinion. But you say no one is trying to say it's over and such and that's not true. I've seen a lot of "no chance at the playoffs" "we're done" "we just plain suck" since halfway through the game, in the chat and on the boards. There's a thread titled "5-11 to 7-9" for crying out loud! We all have concerns, but coming here and seeing nothing but doom and gloom is depressing. And the only way to avoid it here in these last few days is to stay away from the boards altogether. Well I dunno about you, but I happen to love it here. I check in probably no less than 30 times per day from my phone. This is one of about 3 websites I visit, period. So to stay away sucks just as bad.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

While we sometimes disagree on things, I couldn't agree more with any of that!

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

As fans we are always Optimist when football season rolls around. However after we get a glimpse of what we see we start to form a opinion as to the strength and weaknesses of said team. This year so far I have seen no strength on this team. Tell me one area you see as a strength please. As some point that same optimism turn into denial and that's where some of you are in flat out denial.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

2 guards and another DE and this team takes 10 steos forward. Without pressure of a pass rush our young DBs will be abused. Without a strong interior the great weapons on offense won't get the time to get free.

Its not far off but bad drafts and poor FA spending are keeping the team back

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Those that are hating the complaining are the ones who wanted defense defense defense. Well they got it. And they think this defense is supposed to hold teams to 20 points a game, even the elite ones while the offense can only score 24.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I wanted defense and have no issue with Rankins pick. The issue was spending 4ml on the likes of Spiller,Fleener and Browner instead of filling out the guard positions with the likes of Mathis,Alex Boone,Clint Boling, Stefen Wisniewski or Richie Incognito. Could easily have got at least one if not two of them under the cap. Nobody will convince me 8ml a year for Spiller and Ingram is worth the money (and i like Ingram) but we never get 16 games a year from them. Same with well overpaying Fleener.

I understand the Byrd deal at the time,he was one of the top FS in the NFL but the background on his injuries were obviously not looked into

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I couldn't help but notice in the last game, our lack of pressure and the correlation to Jenkins being back on the line. That dude is done!

And as far as the doom and gloom, some of us probably had high hopes for a better looking team, definitely a better looking D. After listening to numerous reports from camp, who could help being excited. Then you see the games and its like wtf is going on. Our O is 1 guard, ideally 2, from being what we have come to expect. If we can not generate a pass rush, we will again be screwed. So 5-10 or 6-9 is what we will be if we don't get some help in here.

If you want to call that whining, go ahead, i could give 2 chits.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I seriously think there are players that or worth every dime they make. However that hurts teams.

A team has to decided ok we need to trade so and so because we can't afford him lets find someone serviceable to fill his shows. Why having a great QB is a great thing... when you don't have a line to protect him or a running game to help him... yikes. that 20 million you put in your QB's pocket is going to waste.

I think we could be just as we have been if not better off trading Bree's and building the lines... YEAH I SAID IT. He isn't getting younger and we haven't put a team around him to win NOW. Which is what he needs.

Going to be curious how Bree's ends his career.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I don't see us resigning him.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

And replacing him with what?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Honestly, not sure but if we actually build a stout D and get a strong O-line with a good run game things could work out pretty well. Brees isn't going to play at a high level forever and sooner than later he will leave and so will his era. I'm not expecting a new qb to put up # like Brees but there have been alot of contenders and SB championship teams with lesser qb over the years. I just don't see us resigning him at top qb scale and stay in the hunt.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

While im unsure you cant say the ladt $100ml given to Brees has done much. The teams been 33-33 and is 1-1 in the playoffs since he got that deal.

There is a case wether spending the $25ml it would cost to re-sign Brees on a pair of Guards $13-15ml,reupping Unger +5ml on his salary, and a DE/DT 5-8ml towards his salary wouldnt mske the team more balanced.

Not saying it will be done but would trading for say a Garoppolo and putting him behind a line of Armstead-G-Unger-G-Peat and with Ingram,Cooks,Thomas,Snead, Fleener. Does anyone think he couldn't put up 4,000 yards and s increase in the run game?

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I really don't think it's as much players as it is the front office and coaching. Think about it
We are in a bad cap situation cause bad deals that have been cut or traded away
Haven't had alot of draft picks overall because of trading up
Swing and miss in free agency over and over
Give huge deals for mediocre play except contract years
Draft classes have been crappy hardly ever find anyone
When we do find a good draft pick we don't develop said pick

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Old school football with a good game manager at qb is stout. I don't care about looking pretty or high octane as long as the job gets done on a consistant level, like you said balanced. Our D has rode the O's coat tails for alot of years now and balance has never been in the equation since Payton has been at the helm.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

We won't really know what we have until the first game is over.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Ive said a few times i think the root of the problem is at board room level. It doesn't look like Bensons is running things either he's dostracted by family issues,or isnt capable at his age. Now if he had a msn running it that would be fine but the man who seems in charge is Loomis and that means Loomis isnt under pressure as a GM,and he is unlikely to rock the boat with Payton. The coaches except the DC under Payton look untouchavle no matter how badly their units perform.

With a leader at the helm to steer the ship it will run off course. Any other GM thats drafted as bad and overpaid as many FA as he has would be on the hot seat

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

The ONLY way we can stay in the hunt is to re-sign him.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Im sure the Colts said the same. Im sure most 49ers thought the world ended after Montana. The Pats were up a creak when Bledsoe went down. Succesful team long term move on a year too early thsn s year too late

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

The 49er's already had what they knew was something special in reserve on the roster. The Colts knew they had what was widely accepted as the most sure fire QB in decades as the first pick. The Pats example is not even relevant because Bledsoe couldn't hold Brees' jockstrap and they already had Brady on the roster. Getting rid of Brees might not be one year early and may end up being ten years too early. Hell, we may never luck up upon another QB as good as Brees will most likely still be three years from now for twenty years.

Your examples suck.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Yes mister know it all. You come across as a bit of a arse putting down everyones opinions while setting yourself up as the font of all Knowledge. Nobody knows what will could happen if Brees isnt resigned. A lesser QB in the rigjt system,with the right weapons and protection could easily put up the numbers needed for success with a defense not starved of millions.

If Brees was this guarantee you claim he is why since he was given his contract has the team been nothing more than a 8-8 team with 2 playoff games since 2011?

Nobody knew Brady was who he was when he initially took over. In house San Fran knew they had a player but again they still traded away the greatest QB in history at that point to give him tbe reigns. No matter how good Brees is he will want to be one of the highest paid player again and with other deals needed and a roster to be filled out it will still eat masses of the cap.

The cap looks great next year but then there will be dead money,Brees,Snead,Unger all need feeding from the $40ml currently there. Aswell as all the rookies, guards and a roster to fill out. The three players listed will eat that 40ml unless you continue to push it doen the road. 2018 you need to pay Vacarro,Cooks and Breaux. Money has to be found soon

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I'm still puzzled as to why we let both Grubbs and Evans go at the same time with no legit plans to fill those shoes. As old as they are both are still above average players and are a hell of a lot better than what we have now. They are waiting to see how cuts shake out. Minnisotta has several good lineman and can't keep all.
We may wind up with an upgrade yet.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Brady took over because Bledsoe was injured. Bledsoe was no where near as talented as Brees is right now. Why keep using that poor example.

And the money is there in the cap to easily retain Brees. I don't know where you are getting this bogus info you are trying to palm off about dead money and such. That's bullcrap. The cap is projected to keep rising at even a greater rate than it has over the past few years. The days of caps being overtly restrictive are about to become extinct.

And I do know what would happen if Brees is not re-signed without a surefire replacement. The Saints will quickly return to being the dregs of the league with five win seasons be the norm. There are probably only ten QB's currently in the league which can be argued as being as good as Brees is right now. We would be fighting with twenty-one other teams for the services of a less than stellar QB.To get a really good one we will need to pay huge numbers. But, isn't that what you are *****ing about now? You get the point?

The point is that whatever we sign Brees to will be surpassed by inferior QBs just based upon the growing market rate. That's why letting Brees go makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

I just dont see how a rational sane person can put having back to back bad seasons on Brees when the defenses were back to back the worst in NFL history. They have had a top 5 offense for the past decade just about. There is nothing wrong with our QB other than the fact that they didnt take out an insurance policy by getting him a line to play behind. They have had success in the past developing lineman and they have had years to get ready for this point in Brees career. Getting rid of both Evans and Grubbs was stupid.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

How can you say Grubbs is superior to what we have now when he can't even pass a physical and is at home on the couch? And how can you say Evans is better than what we have now when he is currently penciled in at third string LG and is likely to be released by Seattle? They are not above average players. They are both well below average.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Do you actually believe the crap that you write asylum or you just trying to get a rise out of people

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

It is fact, shrimp. Grubbs can't even pass a physical and Evans is about to be cut. While we may be lacking at guard right now, Gruubs and Evans were not the answer, but were part of the problem. To be honest, we won't know that Peat isn't going to be the answer at RG. Once the season progresses he may prove to be functional. The same could be said at LG. We really have to wait and see. Clearly, the front office saw what other teams are now verifying, that Grubbs and Evans simply can't cut it.

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Why would you pay Drew 20 - 42 million a yr if you surround him with second rate talent that's what has been happening the last couple of years there comes a point when your doing a disservice to the team by putting everything in one position. That's what I think people are trying to say. This year it's the dead money that hampers them from signing quality oline guys next year if your franchise Drew it would cost 42 million no way he or anyone is worth that I think we can all agree with that. That 42 million could be used to fill just about every week spot we have on both sides of the ball with 4-5 different positions being addressed . He said he wouldn't negotiate during the season so you have a week and half to extend his deal or he will be a free agent .

Re: We don't even know it's that bad.
 

Brees' agent, Tom Condon, is also Peyton Manning's agent. On two separate occasions Manning and Condon went into the final year of Manning's contract and managed to negotiate and re-sign with the Colts on both occasions following the contract's final season. Do not assume that the Saints would be forced to franchise Brees. Brees is likely to be able to be signed at $25M per year, fully guaranteed. A younger free agent QB that is capable of starting will most likely be getting at least that much in the next two years. A point you are missing is that RB pay scales have decreased as much as QB pay scales have increased. The money is shifting across the entire league. We are not far away from mediocre QB's demanding $30M per year. In fact, the 2019 cap is being estimated at $180M per team. It can easily be higher than that as network deals are renewed on a rolling basis every couple of years or so.