Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL?

The Dude · 09-16-2016, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible.

I think we have slipped into mediocrity. If back to back seasons of 7-9 aren't mediocrity I don't know what is. Actually 8-8 is mediocre so what's that make us?
I'm not talking about wins and losses anyway. I'm talking about our dead money and a front office that LOOKS like its incompetent.

K Major · 09-16-2016, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible.

I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches.

blackangold · 09-16-2016, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches.

The best thing that happen to this organization wasn't Sean or Mickey, it was actually Greg Williams.

The Dude · 09-16-2016, 10:45 AM

I think we miss Kromer too although until this season our offense has continued to be bad ass. As soon as Kromer left though Drew started throwing a lot more interceptions based on pressure.

How Vitt has kept his job baffles me.

AsylumGuido · 09-16-2016, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

I think we miss Kromer too although until this season our offense has continued to be bad ass. As soon as Kromer left though Drew started throwing a lot more interceptions based on pressure.

How Vitt has kept his job baffles me.

Kromer was with the Saints 2008-2012.

Brees interceptions:

2008 17
2009 11
2010 22
2012 14
2013 12
2014 17
1015 11

With Kromer averaged 16 picks per season.

Without Kromer averaged 13.3 picks per season.

Brees averaged 2.7 more picks per season with Kromer as coach including the two worst years of his career (2010 and 2012).

Don't let facts stand in the way of a good argument.

hagan714 · 09-17-2016, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches.

I agree LOYALTY has been a fault in so many cases. Overpaying players for winning the super bowl and then over paying FA to return.

To manage a cap one must use the draft. NE may strike out a bunch but they do hit their mark with so many picks also. Keeps the cap in flux and allows them to case FA as needed. They arrange to cap in such a way that they have the ability to case high price Free agents every 3 or 4 years.

When they do sign FA they do not over pay in the lean years. Nor do they sign them to long contracts. The vets they chase are really nothing special either. Just solid players in the back 9 of their careers.

To make a trade they really need to be sold on a player and the trade must have a safety blanket built into it. They love raiding teams like Cleveland who go through house cleaning with a new coaching staff.

OG Jonathan Cooper and a second-round draft pick for Chandler Jones Here is a great example of trading from strength to improve weakness and fore sght in cap control.

Cooper may yet be able to rescue his career if he gets past the leg issues. Even if he ends up as a OG/OC back up in the future he will be cheap to keep. If not They pocketed a 2nd and free up cap space to sign their key FA in 2017. So just to be safe they traded for

Barkevious Mingo for a fifth-round pick?

to fill the void in already deep young position.

So worse case the Pats get Mingo and a second for Jones and a 5th. Mingo will be cheaper to keep.

Pats do not over pay. They do not keep trouble and no one is safe. BUT they always cover their butts in more way than one. Cap management is always involved in the picture with a player moved and a pick to replace a risk that did not work out. Kicking the Cap can down the road is not in their nature. Dead cap is not acceptable,

Granted they have the best coaching staff in the NFL. But they are the master of making runs for the title.

These are gambling moves I can at the very least understand and accept the cost as a fair risk.

Saints? grrrrr

Rugby Saint II · 09-16-2016, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Supertek

I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible.

I think Loomis is spread out too thinly. He doesn't have time to run two franchises. He needs to focus on the Saints again.

saintshrimp · 09-16-2016, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I think Loomis is spread out too thinly. He doesn't have time to run two franchises. He needs to focus on the Saints again.

totally agree started going downhill when he became head of operations of the pelicans have said this for a couple of years now.

Halo · 09-16-2016, 07:39 AM

Since this is a poll, why not add....
"who do ya'll think will win the south the season?"

saintshrimp · 09-16-2016, 07:48 AM

defensively,cap wise and drafting skill its plauseable but offensively nobody is laughing

09-16-2016, 09:01 AM	#1
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by Supertek I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible. I think we have slipped into mediocrity. If back to back seasons of 7-9 aren't mediocrity I don't know what is. Actually 8-8 is mediocre so what's that make us? I'm not talking about wins and losses anyway. I'm talking about our dead money and a front office that LOOKS like its incompetent.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055

09-16-2016, 09:14 AM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,795 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by Supertek I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible. I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches.

09-16-2016, 10:27 AM	#3
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by K Major I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches. The best thing that happen to this organization wasn't Sean or Mickey, it was actually Greg Williams. hagan714 and RaginCajun83 like this.

09-16-2016, 10:45 AM	#4
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? I think we miss Kromer too although until this season our offense has continued to be bad ass. As soon as Kromer left though Drew started throwing a lot more interceptions based on pressure. How Vitt has kept his job baffles me.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055

09-16-2016, 12:32 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,572	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by The Dude I think we miss Kromer too although until this season our offense has continued to be bad ass. As soon as Kromer left though Drew started throwing a lot more interceptions based on pressure. How Vitt has kept his job baffles me. Kromer was with the Saints 2008-2012. Brees interceptions: 2008 17 2009 11 2010 22 2012 14 2013 12 2014 17 1015 11 With Kromer averaged 16 picks per season. Without Kromer averaged 13.3 picks per season. Brees averaged 2.7 more picks per season with Kromer as coach including the two worst years of his career (2010 and 2012). Don't let facts stand in the way of a good argument. Crusader likes this.

09-17-2016, 02:59 AM	#6
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by K Major I'm curious about this myself, because I wonder how much longer the organization will go before they might start to consider maybe, just maybe the issue(s) are some of the coaches. Players come and go but some coaches remain there and yet the results are the same or similar. Often (especially in the past 3+ years) I've wondered if the organization is just too loyal to some of these coaches. I agree LOYALTY has been a fault in so many cases. Overpaying players for winning the super bowl and then over paying FA to return. To manage a cap one must use the draft. NE may strike out a bunch but they do hit their mark with so many picks also. Keeps the cap in flux and allows them to case FA as needed. They arrange to cap in such a way that they have the ability to case high price Free agents every 3 or 4 years. When they do sign FA they do not over pay in the lean years. Nor do they sign them to long contracts. The vets they chase are really nothing special either. Just solid players in the back 9 of their careers. To make a trade they really need to be sold on a player and the trade must have a safety blanket built into it. They love raiding teams like Cleveland who go through house cleaning with a new coaching staff. OG Jonathan Cooper and a second-round draft pick for Chandler Jones Here is a great example of trading from strength to improve weakness and fore sght in cap control. Cooper may yet be able to rescue his career if he gets past the leg issues. Even if he ends up as a OG/OC back up in the future he will be cheap to keep. If not They pocketed a 2nd and free up cap space to sign their key FA in 2017. So just to be safe they traded for Barkevious Mingo for a fifth-round pick? to fill the void in already deep young position. So worse case the Pats get Mingo and a second for Jones and a 5th. Mingo will be cheaper to keep. Pats do not over pay. They do not keep trouble and no one is safe. BUT they always cover their butts in more way than one. Cap management is always involved in the picture with a player moved and a pick to replace a risk that did not work out. Kicking the Cap can down the road is not in their nature. Dead cap is not acceptable, Granted they have the best coaching staff in the NFL. But they are the master of making runs for the title. These are gambling moves I can at the very least understand and accept the cost as a fair risk. Saints? grrrrr
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 09-17-2016 at 03:12 AM..

09-16-2016, 11:49 AM	#7
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,133	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by Supertek I agree with Hagan. We are in danger of slipping in mediocrity. I don't see any miracle turn around. The organization cannot be held accountable by anyone unless Benson himself steps in and shakes this up I feel as Loomis is overextended and after a litany of errors probably not all his fault someone has to consider holding this management team responsible. I think Loomis is spread out too thinly. He doesn't have time to run two franchises. He needs to focus on the Saints again. saintshrimp likes this.

09-16-2016, 12:44 PM	#8
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I think Loomis is spread out too thinly. He doesn't have time to run two franchises. He needs to focus on the Saints again. totally agree started going downhill when he became head of operations of the pelicans have said this for a couple of years now.

09-16-2016, 07:39 AM	#9
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,867 Blog Entries: 45	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? Since this is a poll, why not add.... "who do ya'll think will win the south the season?" hagan714 and jeanpierre like this.

09-16-2016, 07:48 AM	#10
saintshrimp 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houma,LA. Posts: 695	Re: Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL? defensively,cap wise and drafting skill its plauseable but offensively nobody is laughing

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: https://blackandgold.com/saints/79620-saints-laughing-stock-nfl.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Are the Saints the laughing stock of the NFL?	This thread	Refback	09-15-2016 08:21 PM	4
The Latest New Orleans Saints News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-15-2016 07:02 PM	7
The Latest NFL News \| SportSpyder	This thread	Refback	09-15-2016 07:00 PM	1