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I thought there was a long standing guide we went by here on this site and that was post links to news you hear about/stats ect. I come here for years now, even before this name another one, and I don\'t care much for hear-say. I can get that anywheres. Facts and we discuss, I think that is pretty simple.

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a person who works for the saints--seriously all sarcasm aside.. i just take it as his opinion-if it happens cool. if not..well he was wrong...it really doesn\'t hurt anyone and it\'s kinda fun to speculate.

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Does he work for the Saints...NO...

My question remains...Why would they tell an outsider that sort of sensitive info...

And..what kind of person would turn around..betray thier trust...and spill it all on the Net?

I\'m not saying he doesn\'t have some interesting info...but..it likely comes from a paysite...

And this isn\'t the first time someone\'s \'\'source\'\' has come into question..it happens on a near daily basis....It has happened to me at least 5 times..and I, in turn..show links..and in some particular cases...I state the channel on which I saw or heard whatever I may post...

If your going to come in flaring big time info..you need big time proof..otherwise...Like 08 said..\'\'It\'s graffitti\'\'...

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

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Its not an opinion if you site your source as being so-and-so . Its fact at that point. If its your opinon than you state well I think/believe ect. If history dictates on this site wording things on here is very touchy and picky.

Its the same thing if you post \"I head there is a deal made that will come out later that Aaron Books is going to Indy and Manning is coming here... I got this from Haz himself. So you run around telling all you know this information...

Posting the link or downloading the article is very helpful to all here.



[Edited on 10/3/2005 by Euphoria]

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Well let\'s just say you\'ll do it for me! Afterall what you\'re doing by calling him out is against the rules. Next since he is a member here he has as much right to not be ridaculed as you do. So stop please. It\'s just not right. If you choose to not believe him then that is your perogative. But you are not allowed to down another member.So cool it.Euphoria, I am surprised at you taking part in this witch hunt. You\'re better than that. Shadow is a fairly new poster but he knows better too. I hope I got my point across.

You 2 do realize if he is telling the truth you might be running off a very good sorce of information. But if you knew that you wouldn\'t be doing what you are doing,would you?

So, give the man a chance.

P.S. Don\'t think for one minute that NFL teams don\'t have interns. I know for a fact they do.

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by JOESAM2002]

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\'\'calling him out is against the rules\'\'

What?...so..we\'re just suppose to take it all in faith?

I have seen each and every one of the Regs in here , at some point, \'\'Call a person out\'\'..and question thier source...especially if they post something big without a link...

To say we\'re \'\'breaking the rules\'\'..is questionable...we haven\'t cursed...or name called...

Just want to know why , if he is blessed with the inside scoop..why is he telling all these things on a fan site?...

Doesn\'t make sense to me..seems like if someone was given permission to get this info..they would be expected to keep it quiet...that\'s just common sense,...

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Well, he\'s pretty much been labeled an outright liar...

And maybe that\'s right. But if it\'s wrong (however unlikely, and assuming he can prove that) then someone owes the guy an apology, I think. Not because of questioning the authenticity - that\'s never a problem, and never should be - but because of the tone.

The tone in some of these posts was pretty insulting. At least, I know I\'d be insulted.

That\'s it for my two cents, for whatever it\'s worth.

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Ok, you need to lighten up! After all you are wrong! I had things sent to me that only an insider would know. I feel that he is being very truthful in what he says. After seeing what I saw I will believe what he says, but after all it\'s only his impression of the facts as he sees them.

As for you shadowdrinker, I do not owe you any explanation. Abid by the rules or leave, It\'s your choice.

Looks to me like you 2 owe CanLoomis a big apology! If you\'re honest you will, if not then you must be calling me a liar.

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I don\'t think anyone is trying to run anyone off... I did say I like his posts usually they are informative and I value everyones opinion on here... but when you use sources and drop names we are setting a bad president and on occasion members do ask to see someone\'s source on information one posts here...
You have to right to defend any side you want to as well... but I don\'t want to see people putting out wrong information. You do have the right to your opinon but I don\'t think you should be allowed to put out wrong info... its no worse than Buc fans getting in here and posting garbage.
So a few of us here see some errors in this thread and others and start questioning them... nothing wrong with that... isn\'t that what we are discussing... free to say what we want and discuss opinons and ideas.

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\'\'I had things sent to ME that only an insider would know.\'\'


Do tell...

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I see your point Euphoria, but when you call someone an outright liar that\'s different. It won\'t happen while I\'m a moderator here. I feel certain that he is who he says he is. Following your system we now have to start questioning Jarrod Breaux as to where he got his information. The guy is for real I believe, you believe what you choose. But let the man prove himself without all the crap that has been dished.
Either you two cool it or I will.

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this is getting anoying..we sound like the saints locker room-i\'m hte best, no I am ...no..i am!!!

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Shadowdrinker, check your pm\"s.

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Not to add fuel to the fire, but here\'s my opinion.

Everybody who posts here without a link, is merely stating opinion. If some people believe them, so be it. If some people endorse them, so be it. It seems perfectly alright to doubt their opinon. It\'s probably not alright to call anyone a liar and worse, it is contentious for no good reason.

It\'s up to the individual to attach credibility to a poster.

I will give anyone the benefit of the doubt for a while, even when my own perspective and information does not agree with their opinion. I will reexamine my own information and try to make it fit with this new perspective. If it fits, great. If not, I discount the new opinion as incorrect.

To me credibility is earned by being correct; the ability to accurately predict the outcome of a situation. Credibility is also earned by endorsing an accurate viewpoint, but to a lesser extent. Credibility is lost in the same fashion.

Time will tell.

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Amen! Good point FanFrenzy. It\'s only fair to everyone. All I ever asked was to let the man prove himself.

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Can Loomis...

I do apologize for taking the low road a bit early...I should not have stood on such a bold assumption...I do really hope you are the guy you say you are...

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Now I will agree to that about you shadow. You are one damn stubborn dude. ;)

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I know I am..

When I feel in my heart that I am right....I will stand by my beliefs to the gates of Hell itself...

Damn you Darren Howard...hahaha

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You all have the right to question me. I don\'t have anything to prove to anyone, but to ease everyone\'s feelings, I sent JOESAM two different pieces of information that was sent to me by the team. I don\'t have to prove myself with links. I don\'t have to prove myself with anything. I know where I have been and what I have done. I am above that by now. You can believe me or not. Honestly, It\'s not going to bother me either way. I joined this board because I am a Saints fan and because I felt I could add something most fan boards lack....a REAL INSIDER. Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you.

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There are a lot of other people who enjoy your postings CanLoomis... keep up the good work. I could care less about if you did or didn\'t work where ever. I love seeing other views and getting information that we can\'t obtain via free lancing on the internet whether it\'s true or farce. :iloveyou:

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Being called a liar was unecessary, but dude did say he was sorry didn\'t he? What\'s the point of threatening to leave? Some members obviously have taken a shine to you and some are a bit more skeptical, what\'s the big deal? I guarantee EVERY memeber of this forum has been questioned as to the nature of their information at one time or another. We don\'t know each other from Adam. You could be sitting in jail typing this stuff for all anyone knows. Nothing is wrong with someone requesting proof IMO. So to take that tact when you know some members are eager to talk to you and get more info from you seems kinda lowball. This is an internet forum where info is at a premium, it is a SAINTS forum, we are ALL skeptical until we see proof about this team, history has taught us that. No need to use your instantly accepted insider status as a means to make threats to leave. If you are who you say you are, the proof will be evident. But if you can\'t handle skeptics, well, I don\'t know what to say to that, cause there will always be some.

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Whodi, that\'s by far your best post ever.

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CanLoomis,

Please take this for whatever it is worth. It is only my opinion.

I\'ve watched you post here since you first arrived not long ago, and I don\'t believe I\'ve responded to a single post of yours. Reason being - I was struck by your posts much the same way Shadow seems to have been.

Before I go a step further, let me say that I appreciate your contribution to the board, if for no other reason than your style of posting. You\'re straight forward, articulate, and obviously knowledgeable.

That said, can you not see why some of the information that you proport to have received from inside sources is met with skepticism? 80% or more of this board is nothing more than opinion. Of the 20% that may be classified as informational, I\'d say about 1% at the most is \"inside\" information. I think that\'s being generous.

My point being - I could read a couple of scouting reports, do some internet research, and come back in here and fool a whole lot of people. Why any person would ever want to do that is beyond me, and I am in no way suggesting that\'s what you are doing. But can you not understand why a person might hesitate?

For example, I could say 100% truthfully that I am a licensed securities broker, that I worked in the industry handling accounts in the tens of millions of dollars range, that I still have friends in the industry in New Orleans (amongst other places), that my family owns car dealerships in LA and that has put us (yes, myself included) in contact with a fairly small circle of people who still have ties and access to Tom Benson, that I and members of my family bank at one of the banks that the Saints use, and that I could call up a person who potentially (or probably explicitly) has access to a Benson account.

All of that is true. Do you believe it? Moreover, if I said that I talked to a banker who said that Benson transferred $15 million to an offshore account the day after the State paid the Saints, wouldn\'t you be a little skeptical? Why would a banker tell me that?

Listen man, my intent here is not to attack you, by any means. You\'re a good member of this board, and I hope you stick around. I\'m just trying to demonstrate where the static is coming from.

To me, if you want to pass stuff off as opinion, do it all you want. But people on this board hound each other over anything resembling a fact and the source of that information. If we do that with public information, I would only expect the standard to be higher for \"insider\" information. You\'re right, you don\'t have to prove a damn thing to anybody. Then again, people are free to challenge your sources all they want. The forum conduct rules specifically state that you must cite your source. I obviously understand why you would choose not to given the information that you\'re posting.... of course, that\'s exactly why you\'ll be challenged (rightfully so in my opinion) on it.

I hope there are no hard feelings. I\'m just trying to be straight.

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Recently I wrote about giving someone a chance to prove themselves. It doesn\'t matter to me one way or another. I was speaking purely about the philosophy of the thing.

If a person becomes defensive went they state an opinion contrary to most others, it is often going to be questioned. Historically, you can look at many great minds who were outside the \"consensus\" opinion and were doubted. As an example look at Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory, Wegener and the Conitnental Drift Theory. I could list them here all day.

In each of the cases above, however, when asked for proof the person outside consensus did not become defensive, threaten the questioner, \"grab his ball and go home\". It was simple to them. They knew they were right and the others were wrong. The skeptics wanted proof, here it is.

There have been an even greater number of people in the history of science who have come forward with untrue or erroneous information.

I know those are pretty black-and-white examples but the message behind those examples holds true. I recognize that in some cases, it would be damaging to a person to reveal confidential sources. In my line of work, I recognize that more than most (relax, I won\'t write my work history :) ). If that were the case then I don\'t know why they would ever be published to an open message board in the first place. I know I didn\'t rise to my current trusted position by breaking that trust and passing confidential information to people who are not supposed to have it.

All that aside, I am as curious as the next guy and a Saints fanatic. I would love to have an inside source and it would make this board infinitely better. I hope that we are seeing the real thing here. I hope that, though his opinions are controversial, the poster we are all talking about recognizes that it is RIGHT to be a skeptic, and that they will take the time to prove the skeptics wrong.

If not, that\'s cool too. I recognize that the people on this board are some of the most informed fans in Saint-dom. I\'ll still get good information here and be able to make up my own mind about how the Saints are doing.

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Look, this has got to be one of the most silly things I\'ve EVER read here.

Folks suggesting CanLoomis is a liar? It seems to me that before someone goes attacking a \"member\" of this board that the burden of proof is on THEM. And until you HAVE that PROOF, then you\'d probably be better served by keeping quiet.

IMO, there\'s nothing wrong with challenging his opinions, the content of his information ... BUT, some have taken this thing WAY too far.

CanLoomis isn\'t some guy in the \"media\" who writes this stuff for a living. CanLoomis is a MEMBER of B&G (a new one at that) and he should be treated with some respect.

I see where CanLoomis has sent Joe some proof of who he says he is. That\'s good.

It really makes no difference to me who CanLoomis is. I\'m sure I\'m not always gonna agree with him. But, until I have some PROOF that he isn\'t who he says he is, then ... what is there to say? NOTHING!!!

By the way, I do believe CanLoomis!!

[Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC]

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I have my own take on the matter.

I am currently in the Army. Whenever CNN or NBC posts something that soldiers consider to be valuable information, like \"Special Forces were within one hour of catching Saddam Hussien, we say \"Come on...they are undermining operation security....they are telling the enemy what we\'re going to do\". Fact is that Army intelligence is so far ahead of whatever news comes out that it\'s useless for all purposes to the enemy.

I said it earlier in this post...teams already track who other teams might be taking in the draft. There are no \"secret players\" or anything. Everyone scouts the same players, and all of the teams know pretty much who the teams are looking at.

I\'m sure the Saints correspond regularly with other teams as to draft positions, whether it be to trade up or down. The whole NFL is networked like that.

In short....I wouldn\'t consider a team\'s draft list valuable information.

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Couldn\'t have put it better myself, WhoDat.

All you little madonna\'s who are bent out of shape on this crusade for one side or the other, need to step away from the keyboard for a second and ask yourselves one question-

\"Is it worth getting this riled up, over a message board?\"

Get a grip, most of you who get wound up so tight, is because you fail to force your beliefs on another, here. Who cares? Is the information CanLoomis posts interesting? Sure. Should I believe every single article, post, and news clipping I read? Hell, no. Get the information, form your own opinion on the matter, and stop getting mad because someone is not looking at it from the same point of view.
I, like whodat and shadow, was brought up to question information presented to me, regardless of the source. It\'s not anything personal, it\'s the way we are.
This virtual bickering needs to stop. Take the virtual chips from your virtual shoulders and just relax.

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LOL!!

BnB, I love your directness!

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thank you-can we move on now?

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What brings me to this board is the opinions and well thought out posts that are presented. Do I agree with all I read? Absolutely not. That said, I do GREATLY appreciate what Can Loomis says as well as the way he/she says it. No one has ever questioned my credibility here, so why do some of you believe that you have the right to question ANYONE\'s credibility?

Some of the posts on this board are ridiculous to me. But, JoeSam rightly put me on course in a pm that took me to task about posting manners. That\'s what we need to consider, each and every time we post. GOOD MANNERS. It will stand us in good stead with both ourselves and others.

Can Loomis. For heaven\'s sake keep posting. You are both insightful, informed, and in my mind credible. In other words, I like your stuff. Do I know you? No. Do I stick up for your right to say what you believe? Absolutely.

Finally, I have been on boards (Saints Report, Sports Illustrated, NOS.com, Radio Free Bng, NOPF, and others) By far this is the best board with some really knowledgable posters. What we ALL want is to see the Saints win and win big. What we disagree on is how to get there. But, until Tom Benson, Jim Hazlett or any other of the Saints organization comes here and asks, we are all spouting opinion and frustration of losing.

So, as B&B says, take a deep breath. But stop calling names, and read what others have to say, sometines with a grain of salt, but always with good manners.

Thanks guys. :D

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i hope ya take it as just initial questioning can man. it sounds like it has washed thru already to me. it isn\'t everyday someone who has legitimate connection to industry insiders comes to post on this little fan board. for any of you with doubt i say two things: 1) you are also questioning joesam. he has been given substantiation that satisfies him. that is good enough for me. if ya think he is on here for some internet jerkoff then you are a problem. 2) in the event this dewd or any other is trying to pull our chains or is some internet geek getting his rocks off with such absurdity i have no doubt it would not take long to be exposed here. there are plenty of insightful debaters here. my thought about any newbie is let your default be trust what they say until they show they cannot be trusted instead of initiating a relationship with skepticism.

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What I don\'t understand is the dude said he was sorry, and tried to explain why he was so skeptical. Does noone but me see that? If a man saying he is wrong and aplogizing is not enough to have everyone move on, hell he should have just kept his apology to himself. I KNOW how stubborn shadow is, we even joke about it now, but damn, does everyone who comes late to the party have to comment on it? He said he was sorry, that is more than I have seen a lot of people do on here, myself included. Can we let this crap die now?

I am sure by now CanLoomis can see that several people want him to stay around to share his insight. If he still feels like taking his ball and going home, constantly propping him up ain\'t gonna change that.

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CL, I hope you stay!

I agree with Whodi, though - it is ok to question the source (no matter what the credentials), and, secondly, when a guy says he sorry he means it.

I thought everything CL said so far has been very interesting; it would be sad to loose someone with such a different kind of take on things.

Here is the only worry I can see: if people start simply taking CL\'s word on everything as pure fact. I\'m sure that there is fact to it, but even \"facts\" are still disputable. I for one don\'t want to read this kind of dispute: Whodi says - why do you think x, new poster? New Poster\'s reply - CanLoomis said it, so it couldn\'t be wrong. Whodi - Sure it could, here is my counter evidence and bad azz argument. New Poster - I don\'t care, CL said such and such. This would SERIOUSLY discourage actual discussion. Now the good members here are never going to fall into that trap (because we\'re all too annoying to just give in), but if it going to become a game of CL said this, others said that, so CL automatically wins, then I do see a problem.

I think individual posters are too smart to fall into the trap I note above, but I do want to caution that this kind of thing can develop. This is why we require links, etc. That is why I suggest that people read CL\'s very helpful and interesting posts in this way: CL seems to have evidence that such and such as opposed to CL definitely has evidence that such and such and could never be wrong. This stance, which I\'m sure most have already taken should avoid almost all the worries raised in this impossibly long thread.

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Dude, they\'re Tostitos, I eat mine out of bag (what kind of psycho puts chips on his shoulder?), and I am relaxed. Whiskey\'ll do that to you, ya know? :)

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So will rohypnol, you sick, sick bastard :P

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I know it\'s Friday, but isn\'t it kinda early? :D

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I had not planned on really letting this out, but I will because I want everyone to have a better understanding of how credible I am and why Mike D\'s opinions are so slanted.

I worked as a scouting intern for Chet Franklin before he left N.O. for Oakland. Chet is now retired. This was when Bill Kuharich was \"the man.\" After the Ditka era ended, I stayed on for one more year with Randy. I know the Saints organization really well. I know what went on behind the scenes when Randy was fired. I sat in the war room. I have put together draft boards. My closest friend from that staff is our west coast scout. I am very in-tune with what goes on around the NFL and in the Saints front office. I know them all.



That\'s the post that really made me question if anything he said held validity at all..
It\'s like some new guy saying..\"I\'m Jim Haslett..and here\'s the inside scoop\'\'..of course I \'m going to question that...

I just don\'t understand why someone who really did have the inside scoop, would be on a fan site, blabbing each and everything he was entrusted with...

Hey, IF it\'s legit..awesome..we have a 8 hour lead on the rest of the world...

But..I haven\'t seen any real eye popping info..and if your going to come in with an intro like that...you better be able to back it up...same would be expected from any person posting on any board...

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Let it die. It\'s over for Christ\'s sake. Or I can lock the thread?

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lock it please..