Horn Interview part 2...really good read...

duece4pres · 03-12-2005, 01:05 AM

You guys will have to forgive WhoDat. Sometimes he just can\'t see the big picture. Actually, that happens most of the time.

WhoDat insists that Joe Horn is a top 5-receiver and should be paid like one.

Come on guys, Joe is good but he\'s no top 5 receiver and never has been. I can think of 8 or 9 receivers in the NFL that I would trade Joe straight-up for.

Top 5? Not today. Not tomorrow. And it ain\'t looking good that a 34 year old receiver will ever be a top 5 receiver.

Now, WhoDat wants to pay a 34 year old Horn top 5 money?! PLEASE. Heck, WhoDat still thinks Sammy Knight is a top 5 saftey.

[Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC]

NAME THEM!! Let\'s have a little debate here.

duece4pres · 03-12-2005, 01:13 AM

Oh lord. Here we go again.

Hey Billy - Joe Horn isn\'t top five? 8th or 9th? Never has been top five? He was SECOND in the NFL in 2004. His stats rank him FIFTH over the last FIVE seasons. Under what crazy-a$$ system does that not qualify as top 5? Oh, right I remember now. The same system that does rank AB in the top 5. LMAO. Carry on.

Whoodi - you\'re mistaken about two things. 1) In two years Joe Horn will be 35 (he was born 1/16/72, which by my math makes him 33). 2) In two years Joe Horn will be very productive - my guess - top 5 or 10 in the league and better than any other Saints WR present, or past.

5 reasons he isn\'t top 5
owens,moss,harrison,holt, chad johnson. i would take any of these over joe, wouldn\'t anybody?joe is in the 7-10 range and should be paid like it, or we move on!!!

Five WR\'s Horn got to look down on and smile at from the #2 WR in the league spot. This guy has four or five years left in him. Lets cut or trade him and see how far Stallworth gets us. Can you hear me now?

WhoDat · 03-12-2005, 09:03 AM

I\'ve done this before, but it seems appropriate again.

Over the last 5 seasons Joe Horn has AVERAGED
87.5 Rec for 1260 yards and 9 TDs. He has a TOTAL of 93 catches of 20+ yards and 24 over 40 yards.

Let\'s compare that to some of the other guys who can be considered to 5.

There\'s no doubt that the statistical machine of the past 5 years is Marvin Harrison. His numbers are:

107 Rec. for 1410 yards and 13 TDs per year.

Wow. No question, that guy is great. He has fewer 20+ and 40+ yard gains, and his yards per catch (13ish) are less than Horn\'s (14.5), but he\'s a top 5er. Absolutely. How old is he? He\'ll be 33 this year. He was born in the SAME YEAR (1972) as Horn. Oh, so he\'s too old to get top 5 money then, right? Actually, he just signed a 7 year $67 million contract. Ooops.

Fine, the Colts are dumb. Give me a guy like Owens. He\'s younger and much better right? Uuhh... not really.

T.O. will be 32 this year. One year younger than Horn. Only one year younger? Yep, go look it up. His numbers don\'t exactly blow Horn\'s away either.

Horn: 87 rec for 1260 yards, 9 TDs
Owens: 89 rec for 1293 yards, 13 TDs.

OK, so Owens clearly scores more often. But 2 more catches a year for 33 more yards a year seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Likewise Owens has had only THREE more 20+ yard catches (96) and FIVE more 40+ yard catches (29) than Horn in the last five years. One, maybe one and a half more big catches than Horn and the guy is a year younger and he\'s deserving of $9 million a year while Horn whould be paid $4 million a year? That\'s just ridiculous.

Fine you say, give me Randy Moss. He\'s only 28!! And his numbers are better. Again, sort of.

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Moss: 85 rec. 1283 yards 12 TDs

Like Owens, only 3 more 20+ yard catches and 6 more 40+ yard catches. Moss is also one of the biggest distractions in the league, but I guess that doesn\'t matter for a team that labels a player a cancer and ships him out if he sneezes in Haslett\'s general direction.

One other note seems relevant. Moss and Harrison are coming off their WORST seasons in the last 5. Owens is coming off his SECOND WORST.

Harrison, Moss, and Owens all put up WORSE numbers in 2004 than they did in 2002 and 2000.

Horn is coming off his best season. His numbers have improved.

Chad Johnson you say? Give me a break. The guy has only played 4 years, so I can only give you an average over that time. He is 27 though, which I\'m sure makes all the difference in the world to some people. But here are his numbers next to Horn\'s:

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Johnson: 70 rec. 1031 yards 6.25 TDs

So a guy averaging almost 20 catches 250 yards and 3 TDs less per season is on Joe Horn\'s level? C\'mon. Johsnon has played better the last two seasons, I\'ll give him that. But the guy\'s stock, IMO, is inflated more by his mouth than by his play. He\'s a good WR, no question. But he\'s not Joe Horn. Not right now at least.

BlackandBlue · 03-12-2005, 10:44 AM

<3 WhoDat

duece4pres · 03-12-2005, 01:45 PM

I\'ve done this before, but it seems appropriate again.

Over the last 5 seasons Joe Horn has AVERAGED
87.5 Rec for 1260 yards and 9 TDs. He has a TOTAL of 93 catches of 20+ yards and 24 over 40 yards.

Let\'s compare that to some of the other guys who can be considered to 5.

There\'s no doubt that the statistical machine of the past 5 years is Marvin Harrison. His numbers are:

107 Rec. for 1410 yards and 13 TDs per year.

Wow. No question, that guy is great. He has fewer 20+ and 40+ yard gains, and his yards per catch (13ish) are less than Horn\'s (14.5), but he\'s a top 5er. Absolutely. How old is he? He\'ll be 33 this year. He was born in the SAME YEAR (1972) as Horn. Oh, so he\'s too old to get top 5 money then, right? Actually, he just signed a 7 year $67 million contract. Ooops.

Fine, the Colts are dumb. Give me a guy like Owens. He\'s younger and much better right? Uuhh... not really.

T.O. will be 32 this year. One year younger than Horn. Only one year younger? Yep, go look it up. His numbers don\'t exactly blow Horn\'s away either.

Horn: 87 rec for 1260 yards, 9 TDs
Owens: 89 rec for 1293 yards, 13 TDs.

OK, so Owens clearly scores more often. But 2 more catches a year for 33 more yards a year seems pretty irrelevant to me.

Likewise Owens has had only THREE more 20+ yard catches (96) and FIVE more 40+ yard catches (29) than Horn in the last five years. One, maybe one and a half more big catches than Horn and the guy is a year younger and he\'s deserving of $9 million a year while Horn whould be paid $4 million a year? That\'s just ridiculous.

Fine you say, give me Randy Moss. He\'s only 28!! And his numbers are better. Again, sort of.

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Moss: 85 rec. 1283 yards 12 TDs

Like Owens, only 3 more 20+ yard catches and 6 more 40+ yard catches. Moss is also one of the biggest distractions in the league, but I guess that doesn\'t matter for a team that labels a player a cancer and ships him out if he sneezes in Haslett\'s general direction.

One other note seems relevant. Moss and Harrison are coming off their WORST seasons in the last 5. Owens is coming off his SECOND WORST.

Harrison, Moss, and Owens all put up WORSE numbers in 2004 than they did in 2002 and 2000.

Horn is coming off his best season. His numbers have improved.

Chad Johnson you say? Give me a break. The guy has only played 4 years, so I can only give you an average over that time. He is 27 though, which I\'m sure makes all the difference in the world to some people. But here are his numbers next to Horn\'s:

Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs
Johnson: 70 rec. 1031 yards 6.25 TDs

So a guy averaging almost 20 catches 250 yards and 3 TDs less per season is on Joe Horn\'s level? C\'mon. Johsnon has played better the last two seasons, I\'ll give him that. But the guy\'s stock, IMO, is inflated more by his mouth than by his play. He\'s a good WR, no question. But he\'s not Joe Horn. Not right now at least.

Very well said!! The smartest post I\'ve seen yet

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 02:14 PM

Very well said!! The smartest post I\'ve seen yet

Cause it agrees with what you are saying? All these numbers are nice, but ask yourself this: Would you trade Joe Horn for
A) Torry Holt
B) Terrell Owens
C) Randy Moss
D) Hines Ward
E) Chad Johnson
F) Roy Williams(DET)
G) Drafting Mike Williams
H)Muhsin Muhammed
I) Steve Smith
J) Michael Clayton
K) Laverneus Coles
L) Javon Walker
M)Andre Johnson
N) Marvin Harrison

I would, each and every one. If you find even FIVE out of all these you would trade him for, he DOES NOT deserve top 5 money. We can put up all the numbers anyone wants. Facts is Marvin Harrison had 144 catches in 2003, NFL record. Joe ever done that? Does anyone think his numbers would drop with the emergence of Wayne and Stokley? San Fran sucked Owens numbers before he was traded to Philly. And he missed 3 games and still had more TDs than Joe. Did anyone see him in the Superbowl after his injury? And you wouldn\'t want TO over Joe? Randy moss has had the best start to his career of any receiver. Need any more be said? He was also hurt half the season. Gee, I wonder why Joe would have better numbers.

WhoDat · 03-12-2005, 03:10 PM

A) Torry Holt - Yes
B) Terrell Owens - Yes
C) Randy Moss - NO.. I don\'t want his problems
D) Hines Ward - Maybe.
E) Chad Johnson - No
F) Roy Williams(DET) - Maybe b/c of youth and freak factor
G) Drafting Mike Williams - No
H)Muhsin Muhammed - No
I) Steve Smith - No
J) Michael Clayton - No
K) Laverneus Coles - No
L) Javon Walker - Maybe
M)Andre Johnson - No
N) Marvin Harrison - Same age, same talent, same difference.

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 04:57 PM

Now Who, how did I know you would find a way not to pick five?
:P I should have called it beforehand. Randy Moss is a definite yes, screw the problems. On a talent standpoint, he blows everyone else in the league away. No on Andre Johnson? This is about as bad as Gumbo\'s love for AB. Two new rules:, NEVER disagree with you about Horn just like NEVER disagree with Gumbo about AB. Joe obviously has reached some god-like status with you my man. The Andre Johnson answer is what made it clear.

[Edited on 12/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

TayTay · 03-12-2005, 05:42 PM

Whodi, are you just saying these names to try and prove a point or would you honestly prefer an unproven, undrafted player who hasn\'t played organized ball in a year over a pro-bowl receiver who also happens to be the team\'s only constant player?

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 06:50 PM

Um and I quote:

I would, each and every one.

Mike Williams is a beast. I must not be the only one in the NFL who thinks so since he is predicted to not only go top ten, but the overriding assumption is that Minnesota will take him to replace Randy Moss. Is Randy Moss better than Joe? Yes. Is it okay with me to draft a player to replace Joe who Minny is also targeting to replace Randy? Yes. I see he is the only guy you spoke about. So everyone else muse be a yes then huh?

03-12-2005, 01:05 AM	#51
duece4pres Biloxi Bandit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: biloxi, ms Posts: 293	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... You guys will have to forgive WhoDat. Sometimes he just can\'t see the big picture. Actually, that happens most of the time. WhoDat insists that Joe Horn is a top 5-receiver and should be paid like one. Come on guys, Joe is good but he\'s no top 5 receiver and never has been. I can think of 8 or 9 receivers in the NFL that I would trade Joe straight-up for. Top 5? Not today. Not tomorrow. And it ain\'t looking good that a 34 year old receiver will ever be a top 5 receiver. Now, WhoDat wants to pay a 34 year old Horn top 5 money?! PLEASE. Heck, WhoDat still thinks Sammy Knight is a top 5 saftey. [Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC] NAME THEM!! Let\'s have a little debate here.

03-12-2005, 01:13 AM	#52
duece4pres Biloxi Bandit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: biloxi, ms Posts: 293	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... Oh lord. Here we go again. Hey Billy - Joe Horn isn\'t top five? 8th or 9th? Never has been top five? He was SECOND in the NFL in 2004. His stats rank him FIFTH over the last FIVE seasons. Under what crazy-a$$ system does that not qualify as top 5? Oh, right I remember now. The same system that does rank AB in the top 5. LMAO. Carry on. Whoodi - you\'re mistaken about two things. 1) In two years Joe Horn will be 35 (he was born 1/16/72, which by my math makes him 33). 2) In two years Joe Horn will be very productive - my guess - top 5 or 10 in the league and better than any other Saints WR present, or past. 5 reasons he isn\'t top 5 owens,moss,harrison,holt, chad johnson. i would take any of these over joe, wouldn\'t anybody?joe is in the 7-10 range and should be paid like it, or we move on!!! Five WR\'s Horn got to look down on and smile at from the #2 WR in the league spot. This guy has four or five years left in him. Lets cut or trade him and see how far Stallworth gets us. Can you hear me now?

03-12-2005, 09:03 AM	#53
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... I\'ve done this before, but it seems appropriate again. Over the last 5 seasons Joe Horn has AVERAGED 87.5 Rec for 1260 yards and 9 TDs. He has a TOTAL of 93 catches of 20+ yards and 24 over 40 yards. Let\'s compare that to some of the other guys who can be considered to 5. There\'s no doubt that the statistical machine of the past 5 years is Marvin Harrison. His numbers are: 107 Rec. for 1410 yards and 13 TDs per year. Wow. No question, that guy is great. He has fewer 20+ and 40+ yard gains, and his yards per catch (13ish) are less than Horn\'s (14.5), but he\'s a top 5er. Absolutely. How old is he? He\'ll be 33 this year. He was born in the SAME YEAR (1972) as Horn. Oh, so he\'s too old to get top 5 money then, right? Actually, he just signed a 7 year $67 million contract. Ooops. Fine, the Colts are dumb. Give me a guy like Owens. He\'s younger and much better right? Uuhh... not really. T.O. will be 32 this year. One year younger than Horn. Only one year younger? Yep, go look it up. His numbers don\'t exactly blow Horn\'s away either. Horn: 87 rec for 1260 yards, 9 TDs Owens: 89 rec for 1293 yards, 13 TDs. OK, so Owens clearly scores more often. But 2 more catches a year for 33 more yards a year seems pretty irrelevant to me. Likewise Owens has had only THREE more 20+ yard catches (96) and FIVE more 40+ yard catches (29) than Horn in the last five years. One, maybe one and a half more big catches than Horn and the guy is a year younger and he\'s deserving of $9 million a year while Horn whould be paid $4 million a year? That\'s just ridiculous. Fine you say, give me Randy Moss. He\'s only 28!! And his numbers are better. Again, sort of. Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs Moss: 85 rec. 1283 yards 12 TDs Like Owens, only 3 more 20+ yard catches and 6 more 40+ yard catches. Moss is also one of the biggest distractions in the league, but I guess that doesn\'t matter for a team that labels a player a cancer and ships him out if he sneezes in Haslett\'s general direction. One other note seems relevant. Moss and Harrison are coming off their WORST seasons in the last 5. Owens is coming off his SECOND WORST. Harrison, Moss, and Owens all put up WORSE numbers in 2004 than they did in 2002 and 2000. Horn is coming off his best season. His numbers have improved. Chad Johnson you say? Give me a break. The guy has only played 4 years, so I can only give you an average over that time. He is 27 though, which I\'m sure makes all the difference in the world to some people. But here are his numbers next to Horn\'s: Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs Johnson: 70 rec. 1031 yards 6.25 TDs So a guy averaging almost 20 catches 250 yards and 3 TDs less per season is on Joe Horn\'s level? C\'mon. Johsnon has played better the last two seasons, I\'ll give him that. But the guy\'s stock, IMO, is inflated more by his mouth than by his play. He\'s a good WR, no question. But he\'s not Joe Horn. Not right now at least.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-12-2005, 10:44 AM	#54
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... <3 WhoDat

03-12-2005, 01:45 PM	#55
duece4pres Biloxi Bandit Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: biloxi, ms Posts: 293	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... I\'ve done this before, but it seems appropriate again. Over the last 5 seasons Joe Horn has AVERAGED 87.5 Rec for 1260 yards and 9 TDs. He has a TOTAL of 93 catches of 20+ yards and 24 over 40 yards. Let\'s compare that to some of the other guys who can be considered to 5. There\'s no doubt that the statistical machine of the past 5 years is Marvin Harrison. His numbers are: 107 Rec. for 1410 yards and 13 TDs per year. Wow. No question, that guy is great. He has fewer 20+ and 40+ yard gains, and his yards per catch (13ish) are less than Horn\'s (14.5), but he\'s a top 5er. Absolutely. How old is he? He\'ll be 33 this year. He was born in the SAME YEAR (1972) as Horn. Oh, so he\'s too old to get top 5 money then, right? Actually, he just signed a 7 year $67 million contract. Ooops. Fine, the Colts are dumb. Give me a guy like Owens. He\'s younger and much better right? Uuhh... not really. T.O. will be 32 this year. One year younger than Horn. Only one year younger? Yep, go look it up. His numbers don\'t exactly blow Horn\'s away either. Horn: 87 rec for 1260 yards, 9 TDs Owens: 89 rec for 1293 yards, 13 TDs. OK, so Owens clearly scores more often. But 2 more catches a year for 33 more yards a year seems pretty irrelevant to me. Likewise Owens has had only THREE more 20+ yard catches (96) and FIVE more 40+ yard catches (29) than Horn in the last five years. One, maybe one and a half more big catches than Horn and the guy is a year younger and he\'s deserving of $9 million a year while Horn whould be paid $4 million a year? That\'s just ridiculous. Fine you say, give me Randy Moss. He\'s only 28!! And his numbers are better. Again, sort of. Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs Moss: 85 rec. 1283 yards 12 TDs Like Owens, only 3 more 20+ yard catches and 6 more 40+ yard catches. Moss is also one of the biggest distractions in the league, but I guess that doesn\'t matter for a team that labels a player a cancer and ships him out if he sneezes in Haslett\'s general direction. One other note seems relevant. Moss and Harrison are coming off their WORST seasons in the last 5. Owens is coming off his SECOND WORST. Harrison, Moss, and Owens all put up WORSE numbers in 2004 than they did in 2002 and 2000. Horn is coming off his best season. His numbers have improved. Chad Johnson you say? Give me a break. The guy has only played 4 years, so I can only give you an average over that time. He is 27 though, which I\'m sure makes all the difference in the world to some people. But here are his numbers next to Horn\'s: Horn: 87 rec. 1260 yards 9TDs Johnson: 70 rec. 1031 yards 6.25 TDs So a guy averaging almost 20 catches 250 yards and 3 TDs less per season is on Joe Horn\'s level? C\'mon. Johsnon has played better the last two seasons, I\'ll give him that. But the guy\'s stock, IMO, is inflated more by his mouth than by his play. He\'s a good WR, no question. But he\'s not Joe Horn. Not right now at least. Very well said!! The smartest post I\'ve seen yet

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03-12-2005, 02:14 PM	#56
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... Very well said!! The smartest post I\'ve seen yet Cause it agrees with what you are saying? All these numbers are nice, but ask yourself this: Would you trade Joe Horn for A) Torry Holt B) Terrell Owens C) Randy Moss D) Hines Ward E) Chad Johnson F) Roy Williams(DET) G) Drafting Mike Williams H)Muhsin Muhammed I) Steve Smith J) Michael Clayton K) Laverneus Coles L) Javon Walker M)Andre Johnson N) Marvin Harrison I would, each and every one. If you find even FIVE out of all these you would trade him for, he DOES NOT deserve top 5 money. We can put up all the numbers anyone wants. Facts is Marvin Harrison had 144 catches in 2003, NFL record. Joe ever done that? Does anyone think his numbers would drop with the emergence of Wayne and Stokley? San Fran sucked Owens numbers before he was traded to Philly. And he missed 3 games and still had more TDs than Joe. Did anyone see him in the Superbowl after his injury? And you wouldn\'t want TO over Joe? Randy moss has had the best start to his career of any receiver. Need any more be said? He was also hurt half the season. Gee, I wonder why Joe would have better numbers.

03-12-2005, 03:10 PM	#57
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... A) Torry Holt - Yes B) Terrell Owens - Yes C) Randy Moss - NO.. I don\'t want his problems D) Hines Ward - Maybe. E) Chad Johnson - No F) Roy Williams(DET) - Maybe b/c of youth and freak factor G) Drafting Mike Williams - No H)Muhsin Muhammed - No I) Steve Smith - No J) Michael Clayton - No K) Laverneus Coles - No L) Javon Walker - Maybe M)Andre Johnson - No N) Marvin Harrison - Same age, same talent, same difference.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-12-2005, 04:57 PM	#58
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... Now Who, how did I know you would find a way not to pick five? :P I should have called it beforehand. Randy Moss is a definite yes, screw the problems. On a talent standpoint, he blows everyone else in the league away. No on Andre Johnson? This is about as bad as Gumbo\'s love for AB. Two new rules:, NEVER disagree with you about Horn just like NEVER disagree with Gumbo about AB. Joe obviously has reached some god-like status with you my man. The Andre Johnson answer is what made it clear. [Edited on 12/3/2005 by saintswhodi]

03-12-2005, 05:42 PM	#59
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... Whodi, are you just saying these names to try and prove a point or would you honestly prefer an unproven, undrafted player who hasn\'t played organized ball in a year over a pro-bowl receiver who also happens to be the team\'s only constant player?
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

03-12-2005, 06:50 PM	#60
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Horn Interview part 2...really good read... Um and I quote: I would, each and every one. Mike Williams is a beast. I must not be the only one in the NFL who thinks so since he is predicted to not only go top ten, but the overriding assumption is that Minnesota will take him to replace Randy Moss. Is Randy Moss better than Joe? Yes. Is it okay with me to draft a player to replace Joe who Minny is also targeting to replace Randy? Yes. I see he is the only guy you spoke about. So everyone else muse be a yes then huh?