Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?)

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 03:38 PM

Good to see you Guru. I checked it out. I\'ll tell you about it there.

Tay, do you know if there were tipped balls that he was johnny on the spot for? I KNOW one was. Why don\'t you tell me about 2001, 2002, and 2003 where he had ZERO INTs? He has 6 in a 7 year career, yeah I can see how you would say he wouln\'t be a liability.

TayTay · 03-12-2005, 03:45 PM

Even if ALL three were tipped, he still got to them before anyone else. So at the very least, he was aware of his surroundings.
Having no picks in 01, 02, and 03 and now three in 04 tells me is becoming more aware in the passing game. I find it very unlikly that in three years not one ball is tipped to him and now all of a sudden he gets three.
This shows he is adapting to the passing game and starting to follow the ball when it is in the air.

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 03:52 PM

Wow. Okay. BTW, do you watch many Cowboys games? Living in San Antonio, I see them whether I want to or not. Even when I go to Fast Eddie\'s to watch the Saints on one of 5 big screens, if the Cowboys are on they occupy a big screen and a 27 inch. I have seen Dat play for the last 4 years I have been living in Texas. HE has a liability in pass defense. I ALSO said REPEATEDLY he is an upgrade to what we have, and we should do the deal. But don\'t try to sell me on a player I have seen play often. Pass defense is not his strong suit. He is a stud against the run though, which is what we need anyway.

blake6900 · 03-12-2005, 03:58 PM

Dat\'s small...period. He\'s not a Parcells kind of LB but he led Dallas in tackles last year and Parcells has a habit of literally giving away players he\'s not partial to. The only thing stopping this trade is whether or not Howard\'s agent can work a contract with Jerry Jones. Otherwise it\'s a no-go.

As for Dat Nguyen playing for the Saints, let\'s be real here: He\'s no Mills or Singletary. If he can play OLB great (I hear he can). If not, park his ass on the bench. I\'m becoming more and more sold on Courtney Watson, good size, good speed and soon, with experience better instincts. As far as I\'m concerned small middle linebackers are overrated. If you run right at them you knock them on their ass. Zack Thomas is fine but I\'ll take a Brian Urlacher any day of the week.

One thing I\'m not looking forward to: Non-stop \"who dat, who dat, who dat\" because of Nguyen\'s first name. Some people completely lack any imagination and this would just be too easy!

But no matter what, let\'s remember one thing: We had lightning speed last year on defense and what did it get us? Nada! Remember Blake\'s Law: Speed\'s a great thing to have on defense but, if not used properly, it can get you to the wrong place sooner.

ssmitty · 03-12-2005, 07:18 PM

how fast we forget............howard is the all around player..
one of the few who gives his all every game.........imo, big mistake to get rid of him........lotta money yeah, but worth every penny and more.....he will be around for at least a few more yrs, injuries or not.............even a first and dat is not worth it............it will be a sad day in n. o..........smitty

TayTay · 03-12-2005, 08:30 PM

Don\'t know about that?
I know Howard is good, but not even for a first and Dat.
I would trade Howard for a first alone.
We don\'t need another DE.
We do need a LB.
We also need almost every other position on D.
The pick helps us get that as well.

progress · 03-12-2005, 08:32 PM

Parcells would not let go of a great or even a very good football player. (Much like the other Bill would not have let go of Tebuckey if he thought he could help a football team win games). Personally, I\'m not very impressed by the trade possibility. However, if the trade happens, I hope I\'m wrong, because I would hate for the Cowboys organization to pull another \"Steve Walsh\" on the Saints.

[Edited on 13/3/2005 by progress]

TayTay · 03-12-2005, 08:41 PM

I\'m not sure if you are implining the trade will not happen, or that Dat is not a good player.
If you think the trade won\'t happen, you may be right, I don\'t know.
If you think Dat isn\'t a good player, you should look at the fact that he led the Cowboys in tackles this last year. I know that a great year doesn\'t mean he will have success anywhere, but anyone who can lead a Bill Parcells defense in tackles can flat out play.

saintswhodi · 03-12-2005, 09:14 PM

Just thought i\'d add there are Cowboys fans who think they are fleecing US with this trade, should it happen. Shows how indespensible Dat is. Also, the Cowboys D was not very good last year, so leading them in tackles is no big deal. Hell Tebucky got over 100 tackles. Is he good now?

Parcells would not let go of a great or even a very good football player.

Echo that sentiment 100%. Quincy Carter took them to the playoffs, Parcells had zero problems cutting him right before the season. Alleged drug issue. Yet he had a player named LT with the same problem that he kept forever. I wonder why? Maybe LT was a pretty good player?

shadowdrinker · 03-12-2005, 11:54 PM

Wow. Okay. BTW, do you watch many Cowboys games? Living in San Antonio, I see them whether I want to or not. Even when I go to Fast Eddie\'s to watch the Saints on
one of 5 big screens, if the Cowboys are on they occupy a big screen and a 27 inch. I have seen Dat play for the last 4 years I have been living in Texas. HE has a liability in pass defense. I ALSO said REPEATEDLY he is an upgrade to what we have, and we should do the deal. But don\'t try to sell me on a player I have seen play often. Pass defense is not his strong suit. He is a stud against the run though, which is what we need anyway.

I can attest to that..I live in West Texas...and Cowboys games are force fed...but that\'s not all bad..I enjoy watching them play.

Dat has always been a very solid LB, in College, and in the Pro\'s...He doesn\'t miss many tackles at all..and He plays tough Football..He is the real deal..I don\'t care how tall he is...

One HUGE reason that our Safeties have such a high tackle total stems from lack of production from our LB\'s..IF we get upgraded at LB, you will see that our Safeties will get far fewer tackles..which means we wil have to have Pass oriented Safeties...which we do not have now..I think that\'s why Jim is so intent on upgrading the Safeties...

Howard for nothing more that Dat is just not fair in my opinion..Howard ain\'t no slouch...and Dat isn\'t a Franchised player..we will need a pick or two thrown in to make it fair.
It likely won\'t be a first..but a 3rd sounds fair to me......

03-12-2005, 03:38 PM	#31
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Good to see you Guru. I checked it out. I\'ll tell you about it there. Tay, do you know if there were tipped balls that he was johnny on the spot for? I KNOW one was. Why don\'t you tell me about 2001, 2002, and 2003 where he had ZERO INTs? He has 6 in a 7 year career, yeah I can see how you would say he wouln\'t be a liability.

03-12-2005, 03:45 PM	#32
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Even if ALL three were tipped, he still got to them before anyone else. So at the very least, he was aware of his surroundings. Having no picks in 01, 02, and 03 and now three in 04 tells me is becoming more aware in the passing game. I find it very unlikly that in three years not one ball is tipped to him and now all of a sudden he gets three. This shows he is adapting to the passing game and starting to follow the ball when it is in the air.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

03-12-2005, 03:52 PM	#33
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Wow. Okay. BTW, do you watch many Cowboys games? Living in San Antonio, I see them whether I want to or not. Even when I go to Fast Eddie\'s to watch the Saints on one of 5 big screens, if the Cowboys are on they occupy a big screen and a 27 inch. I have seen Dat play for the last 4 years I have been living in Texas. HE has a liability in pass defense. I ALSO said REPEATEDLY he is an upgrade to what we have, and we should do the deal. But don\'t try to sell me on a player I have seen play often. Pass defense is not his strong suit. He is a stud against the run though, which is what we need anyway.

03-12-2005, 03:58 PM	#34
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Dat\'s small...period. He\'s not a Parcells kind of LB but he led Dallas in tackles last year and Parcells has a habit of literally giving away players he\'s not partial to. The only thing stopping this trade is whether or not Howard\'s agent can work a contract with Jerry Jones. Otherwise it\'s a no-go. As for Dat Nguyen playing for the Saints, let\'s be real here: He\'s no Mills or Singletary. If he can play OLB great (I hear he can). If not, park his ass on the bench. I\'m becoming more and more sold on Courtney Watson, good size, good speed and soon, with experience better instincts. As far as I\'m concerned small middle linebackers are overrated. If you run right at them you knock them on their ass. Zack Thomas is fine but I\'ll take a Brian Urlacher any day of the week. One thing I\'m not looking forward to: Non-stop \"who dat, who dat, who dat\" because of Nguyen\'s first name. Some people completely lack any imagination and this would just be too easy! But no matter what, let\'s remember one thing: We had lightning speed last year on defense and what did it get us? Nada! Remember Blake\'s Law: Speed\'s a great thing to have on defense but, if not used properly, it can get you to the wrong place sooner.
blake6900 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 182

03-12-2005, 07:18 PM	#35
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) how fast we forget............howard is the all around player.. one of the few who gives his all every game.........imo, big mistake to get rid of him........lotta money yeah, but worth every penny and more.....he will be around for at least a few more yrs, injuries or not.............even a first and dat is not worth it............it will be a sad day in n. o..........smitty
ssmitty 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,879

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03-12-2005, 08:30 PM	#36
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Don\'t know about that? I know Howard is good, but not even for a first and Dat. I would trade Howard for a first alone. We don\'t need another DE. We do need a LB. We also need almost every other position on D. The pick helps us get that as well.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

03-12-2005, 08:32 PM	#37
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Parcells would not let go of a great or even a very good football player. (Much like the other Bill would not have let go of Tebuckey if he thought he could help a football team win games). Personally, I\'m not very impressed by the trade possibility. However, if the trade happens, I hope I\'m wrong, because I would hate for the Cowboys organization to pull another \"Steve Walsh\" on the Saints. [Edited on 13/3/2005 by progress]
progress 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 114

03-12-2005, 08:41 PM	#38
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) I\'m not sure if you are implining the trade will not happen, or that Dat is not a good player. If you think the trade won\'t happen, you may be right, I don\'t know. If you think Dat isn\'t a good player, you should look at the fact that he led the Cowboys in tackles this last year. I know that a great year doesn\'t mean he will have success anywhere, but anyone who can lead a Bill Parcells defense in tackles can flat out play.
TayTay 100th Post Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 118

03-12-2005, 09:14 PM	#39
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Just thought i\'d add there are Cowboys fans who think they are fleecing US with this trade, should it happen. Shows how indespensible Dat is. Also, the Cowboys D was not very good last year, so leading them in tackles is no big deal. Hell Tebucky got over 100 tackles. Is he good now? Parcells would not let go of a great or even a very good football player. Echo that sentiment 100%. Quincy Carter took them to the playoffs, Parcells had zero problems cutting him right before the season. Alleged drug issue. Yet he had a player named LT with the same problem that he kept forever. I wonder why? Maybe LT was a pretty good player?

03-12-2005, 11:54 PM	#40
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517	Howard to Cowboys for Dat Nguyen and 2nd round pick (?) Wow. Okay. BTW, do you watch many Cowboys games? Living in San Antonio, I see them whether I want to or not. Even when I go to Fast Eddie\'s to watch the Saints on one of 5 big screens, if the Cowboys are on they occupy a big screen and a 27 inch. I have seen Dat play for the last 4 years I have been living in Texas. HE has a liability in pass defense. I ALSO said REPEATEDLY he is an upgrade to what we have, and we should do the deal. But don\'t try to sell me on a player I have seen play often. Pass defense is not his strong suit. He is a stud against the run though, which is what we need anyway. I can attest to that..I live in West Texas...and Cowboys games are force fed...but that\'s not all bad..I enjoy watching them play. Dat has always been a very solid LB, in College, and in the Pro\'s...He doesn\'t miss many tackles at all..and He plays tough Football..He is the real deal..I don\'t care how tall he is... One HUGE reason that our Safeties have such a high tackle total stems from lack of production from our LB\'s..IF we get upgraded at LB, you will see that our Safeties will get far fewer tackles..which means we wil have to have Pass oriented Safeties...which we do not have now..I think that\'s why Jim is so intent on upgrading the Safeties... Howard for nothing more that Dat is just not fair in my opinion..Howard ain\'t no slouch...and Dat isn\'t a Franchised player..we will need a pick or two thrown in to make it fair. It likely won\'t be a first..but a 3rd sounds fair to me......
shadowdrinker Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 517