Joe Horn 2

BlackandBlue · 03-16-2005, 11:54 AM

You\'re coming dangerously close to poking holes in your anti-AB sentiment.

saintswhodi · 03-16-2005, 12:23 PM

I have no problem saying AB is better than Rodney Peete and Chris Weinke. :P

BlackandBlue · 03-16-2005, 12:27 PM

Doesn\'t deny the fact that Horn means a helluvalot more to this team than Muhsin did to the Panthers.

saintswhodi · 03-16-2005, 01:02 PM

That\'s your opinion, and I have no problem with that. The way I see it, if we had Muhammed, he would have done the same if not better than Joe Horn. But I guess that is the difference between the way you and I see it. Horn isn\'t irreplaceable to me, and there are many receivers I consider better, numbers aside.

WhoDat · 03-16-2005, 02:38 PM

At some point, IMO, you have to look past a guy\'s talent or size or speed, and look at what he does on the field. Are there more than 5 WRs out there with more talent and athleticism than Joe Horn? I have no doubt in my mind that is the case. Are there five WRs who are capable of producing great numbers over a season? Absolutely. Are there more than 5 guys who can go to the Pro Bowl in the Saints offense 4 out of 5 years... doubtful. Joe Montana wasn\'t the biggest or strongest. Dan Marino was pretty dumb and immobile. Jerry Rice was never touted as particularly fast or elusive or strong. If you looked at Vaughn Johnson next to Sam Mills and only considered size, strength, and athleticism, you\'d have taken Johnson over Mills every day of the week - and you would have picked the wrong guy every day of the week too. Production is all that matters, IMO. 1300 yards receiving is better than 1000. 60% completion percentage is better than 55%. If a guy does it once, question it. If he does it game in and game out for 5 years, at some point, you have to give the man his due. How else can he prove it week in and week out?

Who is a better athlete, David Boston or Joe Horn?
Who is a better WR?

Joe Horn has been told to put his money where his mouth is time and again, and he hasn\'t disappointed once. If you don\'t think that\'s worth something in this NFL, when the Saints spend millions of dollars on Tebucky Jones or Jonathan Sullivan, then I don\'t know what to tell you...

saintswhodi · 03-16-2005, 05:30 PM

Hey thanks Joe. I appreciate what ya did. But you\'re 33. See Joe Montana. See Drew Bledsoe. See Jerry Rice. See Tim Brown. See Emmitt Smith. And on and on and on. Teams DO NOT hold on to players just cause of what they did in the past. If that was the case, how did all these hall of famers get to leave their teams and finish their careers elsewhere? Earl Campbell, Ken Stabler, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Pat Swilling. None finished their careers where they had their greatest success. Archie. Starting to see it now? The NFL is a BUSINESS, plain and simple. You don\'t get paid for what you did, you get paid for what you WILL continue to do. See Bruce Smith. Is Joe better than any of these guys? No. Did they finish their careers on the same team? No.

Danno · 03-16-2005, 05:37 PM

Hey thanks Joe. I appreciate what ya did. But you\'re 33. See Joe Montana. See Drew Bledsoe. See Jerry Rice. See Tim Brown. See Emmitt Smith. And on and on and on. Teams DO NOT hold on to players just cause of what they did in the past. If that was the case, how did all these hall of famers get to leave their teams and finish their careers elsewhere? Earl Campbell, Ken Stabler, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Pat Swilling. None finished their careers where they had their greatest success. Archie. Starting to see it now? The NFL is a BUSINESS, plain and simple. You don\'t get paid for what you did, you get paid for what you WILL continue to do. See Bruce Smith. Is Joe better than any of these guys? No. Did they finish their careers on the same team? No.

I must agree. I heard a GM state on WWL a few weeks back that team loyalty to older popular players is a death blow to NFL teams nowadays.

I think Joe is worth somewhere between what he wants and what he\'s due to get. Damm, I sound like a politician.

03-16-2005, 11:54 AM	#51
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Joe Horn 2 You\'re coming dangerously close to poking holes in your anti-AB sentiment.

03-16-2005, 12:23 PM	#52
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn 2 I have no problem saying AB is better than Rodney Peete and Chris Weinke. :P

03-16-2005, 12:27 PM	#53
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Joe Horn 2 Doesn\'t deny the fact that Horn means a helluvalot more to this team than Muhsin did to the Panthers.

03-16-2005, 01:02 PM	#54
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn 2 That\'s your opinion, and I have no problem with that. The way I see it, if we had Muhammed, he would have done the same if not better than Joe Horn. But I guess that is the difference between the way you and I see it. Horn isn\'t irreplaceable to me, and there are many receivers I consider better, numbers aside.

03-16-2005, 02:38 PM	#55
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Joe Horn 2 At some point, IMO, you have to look past a guy\'s talent or size or speed, and look at what he does on the field. Are there more than 5 WRs out there with more talent and athleticism than Joe Horn? I have no doubt in my mind that is the case. Are there five WRs who are capable of producing great numbers over a season? Absolutely. Are there more than 5 guys who can go to the Pro Bowl in the Saints offense 4 out of 5 years... doubtful. Joe Montana wasn\'t the biggest or strongest. Dan Marino was pretty dumb and immobile. Jerry Rice was never touted as particularly fast or elusive or strong. If you looked at Vaughn Johnson next to Sam Mills and only considered size, strength, and athleticism, you\'d have taken Johnson over Mills every day of the week - and you would have picked the wrong guy every day of the week too. Production is all that matters, IMO. 1300 yards receiving is better than 1000. 60% completion percentage is better than 55%. If a guy does it once, question it. If he does it game in and game out for 5 years, at some point, you have to give the man his due. How else can he prove it week in and week out? Who is a better athlete, David Boston or Joe Horn? Who is a better WR? Joe Horn has been told to put his money where his mouth is time and again, and he hasn\'t disappointed once. If you don\'t think that\'s worth something in this NFL, when the Saints spend millions of dollars on Tebucky Jones or Jonathan Sullivan, then I don\'t know what to tell you...
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

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03-16-2005, 05:30 PM	#56
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Joe Horn 2 Hey thanks Joe. I appreciate what ya did. But you\'re 33. See Joe Montana. See Drew Bledsoe. See Jerry Rice. See Tim Brown. See Emmitt Smith. And on and on and on. Teams DO NOT hold on to players just cause of what they did in the past. If that was the case, how did all these hall of famers get to leave their teams and finish their careers elsewhere? Earl Campbell, Ken Stabler, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Pat Swilling. None finished their careers where they had their greatest success. Archie. Starting to see it now? The NFL is a BUSINESS, plain and simple. You don\'t get paid for what you did, you get paid for what you WILL continue to do. See Bruce Smith. Is Joe better than any of these guys? No. Did they finish their careers on the same team? No.

03-16-2005, 05:37 PM	#57
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	Joe Horn 2 Hey thanks Joe. I appreciate what ya did. But you\'re 33. See Joe Montana. See Drew Bledsoe. See Jerry Rice. See Tim Brown. See Emmitt Smith. And on and on and on. Teams DO NOT hold on to players just cause of what they did in the past. If that was the case, how did all these hall of famers get to leave their teams and finish their careers elsewhere? Earl Campbell, Ken Stabler, Rickey Jackson, Sam Mills, Pat Swilling. None finished their careers where they had their greatest success. Archie. Starting to see it now? The NFL is a BUSINESS, plain and simple. You don\'t get paid for what you did, you get paid for what you WILL continue to do. See Bruce Smith. Is Joe better than any of these guys? No. Did they finish their careers on the same team? No. I must agree. I heard a GM state on WWL a few weeks back that team loyalty to older popular players is a death blow to NFL teams nowadays. I think Joe is worth somewhere between what he wants and what he\'s due to get. Damm, I sound like a politician.