Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon

SmashMouth · 12-28-2016, 07:31 AM

MOAR..... at least ONE MOAR YEAR!

44Champs · 12-28-2016, 08:04 AM

As the OP, I like the effort that SP is putting out these last few games. Payton's not going anywhere so as long as he's coach, I'm hoping that he does well and turns this team around. I'm still not happy that he's let his buddy McMahon hang around. Letting go of him would prove his commitment to the team over his own personal agendas.

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Seer1 · 12-28-2016, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Wait. Who wears a tee shirt under a Hawaiian shirt?
C'mon Sean!

OldMaid · 12-28-2016, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

While I'd agree that we need a stronger GM to keep Payton in check with regards to some of these personnel moves and his reluctance to cut a coach loose out of loyalty (McMahon)...

I'd just remind you that Brees was a broken-win San Diego cast-off who was unwanted by Nick Saban and Miami before Sean Payton turned him into the NFL's best passer these past ten (10) years...

My point, Payton's a great coach who knows how to get the best from his players and put them in the best possible position, offensively...

I agree with you.

I agree with others.
I am realistic. A SB is too far fetched. Playoffs at Wild Card level are easy to get to. Things have been so off with such a good HC and his coaching staff.
I am not frustrated like many fans here.
It is all about winning in the NFL. Those of you wanting SeanP to leave , well, maybe he wants to as well. Maybe he feels he has gone here as far as he can and needs a new challenge too.
He had his career peak here and maybe he wants to move on.

WillSaints81 · 12-28-2016, 02:22 PM

Even today's Drew Brees without a good defense would struggle at times in that division. The AFC West was the best division in football in 2005. That went to crap when Vermeil left KC. Still all three outside Oakland had their shot to contend. There was no no way Brees was sweeping Trent Green two years in a row either which resulted in 9-7. If he did not get hurt against Denver, SD may have won that game. Denver only scored 22 in that game. Given how KC fell apart, Drew would have been dominating that division like Rivers did for a few years before it went to crap. So this notion Payton made him better is rubbish especially since we keep talking about how when Drew goes we're done contending. But it's also getting beyond pointless to continue arguing with a fanbase that isn't realistic about things.

jeanpierre · 12-28-2016, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I have a lot of mixed opinions on what several people are saying in here. First, I don't know why some make it sound like Brees was hot garbage before he came here. He was very good in his last couple of seasons in San Diego, and that was with the perennially awful Cam Cameron as his offensive coordinator. They let him go because he got hurt and they had already invested in a young QB before they knew Brees was going to turn it around.

So I disagree with those who say Payton made Brees. But I don't completely agree that Brees made Payton, either. I think Payton's system suits Drew and vice versa. But I don't think that Payton is anything close to a great coach at this point.

Being a coach is about more than drawing up plays. He mismanages his coaching staff, the clock, and has mismanaged several players over the last few years. He plays favorites with certain players just like he does with his coaches.

That doesn't make him a bad person, it just makes him a poor leader. This is a business, and you are paid a lot of money to make tough decisions and WIN. You can make as many excuses as you want about the injuries, but you can't deny all of the rest if you are honest with yourself. This is three years in a row of this team being a mess.

We have a good young nucleus, but until Payton cleans up the coaching staff and re-inserts some fire and discipline across the board, we might be a playoff team in the future, but I don't see us going far. Talent can overcome a lot, but it can't do it all. Payton must change the culture of favoritism and mediocrity or we'll need a new coach. Benson won't fire him, though.

Brees may not have been hot garbage, but he was damaged goods with an unknown sx repaired shoulder...

In five years with the SuperCharges he made the ProBowl only once (No. 3 QB AFC) - since '06, he's missed the ProBowl only in '07 and the past two seasons as the team has slipped into mediocrity despite what the media has taken for granted as an elite offense...

Brees was benched in his SD tenure in favor of Doug Flutie...and the Chargers chose to draft Phillip Rivers rather than build around him...

Brees only passed for 3500+ yds (3576) once in San Diego - first season with the Saints, he passed for 4418 PaYds - 276.4 PaYds/Gm his lowest as a Saint...

Payton has been to Brees what JetFuel is to a HotRod - you're kidding yourself otherwise...

But I do agree Payton is a flawed coach and his inability at times to fail to properly address his and team issues in a timely fashion has handicapped his and the team's success...

Loomis is a rubber stamp for both the owner and Payton; when we've needed a good, strong personnel man to check Payton and keep the roster and draft picks effective - it's been a disaster...

Perhaps this is the year Ireland steps in as the deFacto GM and Payton finally cuts Vitt and McMahon loose and accepts counsel for effective coaches at those positions, especially with the directly attributable losses to special teams and Vitts failure to develop personnel, draft picks and keep the linebacking unit from being such a liability to this team's success...

jnormand · 12-28-2016, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Seer1

Wait. Who wears a tee shirt under a Hawaiian shirt?
C'mon Sean!

I do. I sweat like a SOB.

jeanpierre · 12-28-2016, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by jnormand

I do. I sweat like a SOB.

Layering is important...

darksoul35 · 12-29-2016, 06:54 AM

A lot of this bad clock management is from drew calling a timeout before getting a delay call. Some of it is from challenges that Payton takes chances with. Every once in a while I will complain because we run shotgun empty on third and inches but when they work I forget about it. Other than that I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the world even though in my opinion there is only one better. I just remember getting rode on every time I say who my favorite team is and Payton and Brees made that change. We will be where we want to be next year.

jnormand · 12-29-2016, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by darksoul35

A lot of this bad clock management is from drew calling a timeout before getting a delay call. Some of it is from challenges that Payton takes chances with. Every once in a while I will complain because we run shotgun empty on third and inches but when they work I forget about it. Other than that I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the world even though in my opinion there is only one better. I just remember getting rode on every time I say who my favorite team is and Payton and Brees made that change. We will be where we want to be next year.

Yeah for those of us that were born in the south and moved or who never lived in Louisiana or anywhere below the Mason-Dixon, Payton and Brees changed a lot. 40 years ago I was born in Louisiana but moved to Idaho when I was a kid. I was made fun of for bring a Saints fan. Everyone here is a Seattle, San Francisco or Denver fan (depending who is doing better).

I like Payton. I just want him to fire a couple people on his staff. Hopefully he will.

12-28-2016, 07:31 AM	#41
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,044 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon MOAR..... at least ONE MOAR YEAR! foreverfan and OldMaid like this.

12-28-2016, 08:04 AM	#42
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon As the OP, I like the effort that SP is putting out these last few games. Payton's not going anywhere so as long as he's coach, I'm hoping that he does well and turns this team around. I'm still not happy that he's let his buddy McMahon hang around. Letting go of him would prove his commitment to the team over his own personal agendas. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk jnormand and OldMaid like this.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

12-28-2016, 09:01 AM	#43
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by K Major Wait. Who wears a tee shirt under a Hawaiian shirt? C'mon Sean!

12-28-2016, 12:17 PM	#44
OldMaid Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,910 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by jeanpierre While I'd agree that we need a stronger GM to keep Payton in check with regards to some of these personnel moves and his reluctance to cut a coach loose out of loyalty (McMahon)... I'd just remind you that Brees was a broken-win San Diego cast-off who was unwanted by Nick Saban and Miami before Sean Payton turned him into the NFL's best passer these past ten (10) years... My point, Payton's a great coach who knows how to get the best from his players and put them in the best possible position, offensively... I agree with you. I agree with others. I am realistic. A SB is too far fetched. Playoffs at Wild Card level are easy to get to. Things have been so off with such a good HC and his coaching staff. I am not frustrated like many fans here. It is all about winning in the NFL. Those of you wanting SeanP to leave , well, maybe he wants to as well. Maybe he feels he has gone here as far as he can and needs a new challenge too. He had his career peak here and maybe he wants to move on.

12-28-2016, 02:22 PM	#45
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Even today's Drew Brees without a good defense would struggle at times in that division. The AFC West was the best division in football in 2005. That went to crap when Vermeil left KC. Still all three outside Oakland had their shot to contend. There was no no way Brees was sweeping Trent Green two years in a row either which resulted in 9-7. If he did not get hurt against Denver, SD may have won that game. Denver only scored 22 in that game. Given how KC fell apart, Drew would have been dominating that division like Rivers did for a few years before it went to crap. So this notion Payton made him better is rubbish especially since we keep talking about how when Drew goes we're done contending. But it's also getting beyond pointless to continue arguing with a fanbase that isn't realistic about things.

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12-28-2016, 06:32 PM	#46
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by burningmetal I have a lot of mixed opinions on what several people are saying in here. First, I don't know why some make it sound like Brees was hot garbage before he came here. He was very good in his last couple of seasons in San Diego, and that was with the perennially awful Cam Cameron as his offensive coordinator. They let him go because he got hurt and they had already invested in a young QB before they knew Brees was going to turn it around. So I disagree with those who say Payton made Brees. But I don't completely agree that Brees made Payton, either. I think Payton's system suits Drew and vice versa. But I don't think that Payton is anything close to a great coach at this point. Being a coach is about more than drawing up plays. He mismanages his coaching staff, the clock, and has mismanaged several players over the last few years. He plays favorites with certain players just like he does with his coaches. That doesn't make him a bad person, it just makes him a poor leader. This is a business, and you are paid a lot of money to make tough decisions and WIN. You can make as many excuses as you want about the injuries, but you can't deny all of the rest if you are honest with yourself. This is three years in a row of this team being a mess. We have a good young nucleus, but until Payton cleans up the coaching staff and re-inserts some fire and discipline across the board, we might be a playoff team in the future, but I don't see us going far. Talent can overcome a lot, but it can't do it all. Payton must change the culture of favoritism and mediocrity or we'll need a new coach. Benson won't fire him, though. Brees may not have been hot garbage, but he was damaged goods with an unknown sx repaired shoulder... In five years with the SuperCharges he made the ProBowl only once (No. 3 QB AFC) - since '06, he's missed the ProBowl only in '07 and the past two seasons as the team has slipped into mediocrity despite what the media has taken for granted as an elite offense... Brees was benched in his SD tenure in favor of Doug Flutie...and the Chargers chose to draft Phillip Rivers rather than build around him... Brees only passed for 3500+ yds (3576) once in San Diego - first season with the Saints, he passed for 4418 PaYds - 276.4 PaYds/Gm his lowest as a Saint... Payton has been to Brees what JetFuel is to a HotRod - you're kidding yourself otherwise... But I do agree Payton is a flawed coach and his inability at times to fail to properly address his and team issues in a timely fashion has handicapped his and the team's success... Loomis is a rubber stamp for both the owner and Payton; when we've needed a good, strong personnel man to check Payton and keep the roster and draft picks effective - it's been a disaster... Perhaps this is the year Ireland steps in as the deFacto GM and Payton finally cuts Vitt and McMahon loose and accepts counsel for effective coaches at those positions, especially with the directly attributable losses to special teams and Vitts failure to develop personnel, draft picks and keep the linebacking unit from being such a liability to this team's success... Beastmode likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 12-29-2016 at 08:39 AM..

12-28-2016, 10:43 PM	#47
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,647	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by Seer1 Wait. Who wears a tee shirt under a Hawaiian shirt? C'mon Sean! I do. I sweat like a SOB. jeanpierre likes this.

12-28-2016, 10:54 PM	#48
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by jnormand I do. I sweat like a SOB. Layering is important... jnormand likes this.

12-29-2016, 06:54 AM	#49
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon A lot of this bad clock management is from drew calling a timeout before getting a delay call. Some of it is from challenges that Payton takes chances with. Every once in a while I will complain because we run shotgun empty on third and inches but when they work I forget about it. Other than that I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the world even though in my opinion there is only one better. I just remember getting rode on every time I say who my favorite team is and Payton and Brees made that change. We will be where we want to be next year. jnormand, WW_Who_Dat and Utah_Saint like this.
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041

12-29-2016, 09:36 AM	#50
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,647	Re: Getting off the Sean Payton Bandwagon Originally Posted by darksoul35 A lot of this bad clock management is from drew calling a timeout before getting a delay call. Some of it is from challenges that Payton takes chances with. Every once in a while I will complain because we run shotgun empty on third and inches but when they work I forget about it. Other than that I wouldn't trade him for any coach in the world even though in my opinion there is only one better. I just remember getting rode on every time I say who my favorite team is and Payton and Brees made that change. We will be where we want to be next year. Yeah for those of us that were born in the south and moved or who never lived in Louisiana or anywhere below the Mason-Dixon, Payton and Brees changed a lot. 40 years ago I was born in Louisiana but moved to Idaho when I was a kid. I was made fun of for bring a Saints fan. Everyone here is a Seattle, San Francisco or Denver fan (depending who is doing better). I like Payton. I just want him to fire a couple people on his staff. Hopefully he will. darksoul35 likes this.

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