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Who is the new BnG dealer?
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The probablility of Horn making the HoF is small. Harrison will go, no question. But it has nothing to do with Harrison being the better receiver. Not sure if you knew this, cause I\'m not sure how many Saints games you\'ve seen, but Horn had a late start to his career. Quote:
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Who is the new BnG dealer?
Joe\'s cap number this year is like 4.5 mil. This means if we signed him to a big deal, let\'s say 5 years and 45 mil. This would mean an increase in our cap number of about 4.5 mil this year plus Joe\'s bonus averaged over those years.
If we pay Joe, of course, Duece, Bentley, Brooks and Grant are going to wondering if we can pay them. With that kind of pay for Joe, we will only be able to pay ONE of those guys AT MOST, and we won\'t be able to pay them as though they were top 5 in their grouping (and, you\'ll note, on my suggestion Joe still won\'t be getting paid top five money). If we let Joe play out his contract, and he puts up the same numbers, we will look bad next year when we can\'t afford him. If we pay Joe this year and he puts up the same numbers, we\'ll look like geniuses... up until we have to let one of our other studs go to keep him. Now, of course, our cap number next year could fluctuate greatly, especially if we get a QB in the first round this year, but there is an important point here: if we pay Joe, do we increase the chance of hold-outs by Brooks and McAllister? Will we be able to pay guys like Bentley and Grant? Until someone answers that question, I\'m not sure why paying Joe his 4.5 mil this year (and working out his new contract over the course of the following season) isn\'t a bad idea? |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
BlackandBlue-
Hey, I\'m just saying you usually don\'t take a stand one way or the other on most issues. At least not from what I\'ve read. Hey, there\'s nothing wrong with that. That\'s your God given right to do so. And I never try to one-up you, BlackandBlue. But when you start comparing Joe Horn to Marvin Harrison, you start to one-up yourself. Why not compare Joe Horns stats to Jerry Rice? You can make the same arguement. Which is compeltely ridiculous. Shall I continue? |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
PS - You guys need to demonstrate that you\'re joking with each other to the rest of the members, or take it down a notch.
:icon23: ... or I\'m going to start weilding my new found authority... ;) |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
Statements like this make me think you\'re trying to discredit my name. I usually take a stance on most issues, but I rarely repeat myself over and over, because I don\'t see a point to it.
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You constantly try to discredit me, but you get offended when I say something about you? You\'re kidding, right? |
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Whoa JKool, when did that happen? :o
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I agree with you some and I disagree with you some. Just like I do most other folks on here. And ... You know what? I really don\'t care what you think of my opinion. You want to go places that you really shouldn\'t be going. When you do that ... you get responses like you dish out. But, of course, I\'m sure that\'s what you wanted to begin with. |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
One thing we can both agree on, nobody here wants to read a pissing match between the two of us. I\'ve said how I feel, back it up with facts, and won\'t stray.
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B&B....I think we see things alike.
I don\'t think anyone would argue Moss vs. Horn or Terrell vs. Horn. Those are pretty clear cut guys who are tops in the league. Gumbo....I agree with B&B...it\'s hard to tell if you\'re just trying to get attention or what. I think Marvin is a stud receiver, no doubt. But....acting like he is so much better than Horn just doesn\'t work for me. Are you saying Horn wouldn\'t produce on Marvin\'s level in that Offense? Are you saying that Marvin would out produce Joe in our offense? I don\'t really think there\'s clear justification for those statements, but I am starting to think that justification is not a real big factor for you. Hey Gumbo, since joe\'s not a big play guy....check out his career average against Marvin\'s (14.6 is more big play thatn 13.2 right?) Marvin clearly has better numbers, but he\'s been catching balls in one of the most pass happy offenses of our time. He\'s a good route runner with speed and solid hands....but I personally think he\'s marginally better than Horn and not the slam dunk that you think he is. And by the way.....give me the 10 receivers that are better than Horn. I think your list would be cute. Moss, TO, and Holt are all better. But, names like Moose, Mason, Chad Johnson, Bruce, Driver , Walker, Ward , Darrel Jackson......I mean, where are the other 7 who are outright better than Horn? I think you can easily argue that Horn is top seven and debate whether he\'s top five. I don\'t think alot of experts would put him outside of the top 7-10. I\'m not suggesting that we pay him for a few more years. I would take him for 2 more years with a decent signing bonus. Some people are just acting like Joe is a plug-in guy who is totally replaceable, and I think that\'s stupid. Not only do I think it\'s stupid, I think it\'s indicitive of not watching/knowing Saints games. Joe has dropped some easy balls, none worse than the Tampa game last year. However, for every drop, he has made 2 really tough catches and showed true grit on the field. Sure, he pops off at the mouth and I can do without that. But, Joe\'s a solid citizen who comes to play every Sunday. His request for top five money is not totally outlandish in today\'s NFL. Look at the money Jordan just got to go to Oakland. Look at what Wistrom got paid. PATHON MADE 2.5 MIL THIS PAST YEAR. TEBUCKY STOLE MONEY FROM THIS TEAM. Throwing a little cheese to a consistent performer who has been a standout on a mediocre team for a few years is not going to ruin our franchise. There are far worse things we can (and will) do. |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
I have to say I think people are underestimating Horn a little bit. He has produced in the last 4 years top numbers in the NFL. I\'m sorry -- but one must have loads of talent to back up his stats. But that doesn\'t mean I want to pay him top 5 money going forward because I don\'t. I wouldn\'t mind having incentives in place to get to a huge payday -- just do not want a large guaranteed bonus. Why not you ask -- because a contract is for playing in the future not the past and unfortunately I think his best years are behind him. Does he have some fire left -- sure enough -- but not enough to support a huge cap hit for years to come.
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Who is the new BnG dealer?
yasoon -
As I\'ve already said ... I don\'t care WHO thinks Joe Horn is a top 5 receiver. I don\'t care if you or anyone else thinks Joe Horn is as good as Marvin Harrison. In fact, you guys could say Joe Horn is one of the top 5 receivers of all time and I couldn\'t really prove you wrong. You could say Joe Horn and Jerry Rice are about equal. I really couldn\'t prove you wrong. But, you see .... I\'ve got two eyes and I can see the gap between Joe Horn and the turly elite receivers. That\'s something that doesn\'t show up in stats. Joe Horn COULD NOT duplicate the success of Mavin Harrison if Joe Horn were with the Colts. Joe is a very good receiver, but some of you guys need to get real. Some of you guys amaze me. I\'m starting to think some of you are on crack. Put down the pipe |
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Get real? I don\'t think there is anything in my post that any pro football expert would say is off base or crazy. I know my football. You spoke earlier in the week about Horn\'s inablilty to create big plays, I showed you that Horn has a better career average than Marvin. You ignored that. You ignore the fact that Marvin\'s QB puts the ball right on the money while AB throws 2 or 3 death balls a game. Clearly your keen eye for the game surpasses mine. But....if you were to take a poll of NFL experts/players, I think you would find Horn in most people\'s top ten since 2000. Thus, saying he is in the top 7 (which is what I said) would be far from crackworthy. I didn\'t say Pathon/Kennison/Freddie Mitchell were near the top. I said Horn was. Again....name the guys (other than Holt/Harrison/TO/Moss) that are so much better than Horn. Use your two eyes. There was nothing in my post that was outlandish. I just think you saying \"grab mike williams and ditch joe\" is a bit simplistic. And if anyone said that Joe Horn was better than Jerry Rice, that would be outlandish, so that\'s a terrible analogy. I never even siad that Horn was better than Marvin, just that they were pretty close. There are 2-3 more TDs to go around a game over in Indy vs. New Orleans over the last few years. Marvin has taken full advantage of that and been the best AFC guy. But, you can\'t sell Horn short. It\'s not like this team has a long history of ProBowl receivers. HORN IS, AT WORST, A TOP TEN NFL RECEIVER FOUR YEARS RUNNING. IF YOU DISAGREE GUMBO, YOU DON\'T KNOW YOUR FOOTBALL. |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
Billy, if I\'ve got this right, your judgement on Horn is that numbers wise he is as good as guys like Rice or Harrison. However, based on your observations he\'s clearly not as good.
The other group seems to agree, but they saw something different out on the field. BnB cites a particular game where Horn left it all on the feild. Certainly, you\'ll grant in that game, there are few (if any other WRs) who would have sold out like that? It seems to me, one of two conclusions is inevitable here: how good Joe really is is going to be determined merely on the basis of personal observation (and thus no dispute is possible) OR Joe is an elite WR, just like those other guys. If the conclusion is the first, by all means people can state their opinion, but it certainly won\'t engender agreement. If the conclusion is the second, I suggest that actually ranking these guys will be very hard, since they play on very different teams, with different schemes, coaches, surrounding cast, opponents and so on. I think the second conclusion is the more likely of the two. I still think that paying Joe as much as he is asking will have detrimental effects - like encouraging McAllister and Brooks to hold out for more money (which they also think they deserve), make it difficult to sign anymore \"name\" FAs, and make it difficult renegotiate with Grant, Bentley, McAllister, and so on (all of whom are up for new contracts). So, those of you who are in the \"pay Joe\" camp need to make paying him sound plausible to me - given the above problems and our decrease cap space. PS - please keep comments directed at ideas and arguments and not other members (and especially not their crack habits). |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
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Who is the new BnG dealer?
trade joe horn to the bears for brian urlacher..then trade howard to the titans for picks and draft a wideout. he\'s a good player but wideouts are a dime a dozen. IMO
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My Horn scenario might be a pipe dream, because he probably doesn\'t count on making a big free agent splash in 2 years. (This may be his last shot at big money.) I would like to sign him to a top ten contract for 2-3 years. This is what I would offer him. If he says no, which he probably will, I would let him walk. My point is twofold: Joe has done alot for the Saints and Joe is not going to be as easy to replace as people are making him sound. That\'s all I\'m saying. You don\'t break the bank on an aging reciever. It should be more like \"if you want to stay a Saint, we want you here but you need to meet us in the middle\" He has said that he plans to retire and raise children in Hattiesburg and he may be willing to leave a few dollars on the table to stay close by. I don\'t know Joe....he may go to San Fran if they are the highest bidder and not care how far that is from his final destination. As far as what Brooks wants......he can go elsewhere with that. The other guys mentioned should be retained within reason. I would feel better letting Horn go if Dante had shown an ability to show anything beyond flashes. Devery hasn\'t seen the field, Pathon was way overpaid and just a solid number 3. Beerman is a spot guy who I love, but a special teamer. Everything else is unknown. There is no easy replacement for Horn and I hope this lingering issue doesn\'t affect the \'05 campaign. If the money were guaranteed (a la MLB), it would be less of an issue. But....in the NFL guys have to think 2 years ahead contractually. Maybe we get one last year out of him and release him right as his skills start going down. The only reason I\'ve chimed in on this topic is I think people are making light of Joe\'s achievements and some of the moments he has given us. I never said \"sign Joe no matter what\". I respect Horn for the path he took to the league and the hard work he does on the field. He plays every down hard and helps an average QB look good some days. And without him, this year\'s pro bowl would have been MITCH BERGER wearing the black and gold. Give Horn what we can with an eye to the future...if he plays hardball, it\'s thanks for the memories and Donte becomes our number 1. |
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I hear ya, ya.
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As to this statement, you make a good point, but there\'s a flip side to that coin. The Saints already, IMO, have a reputation for for letting talent walk when they get expensive. Sammy Knight, if I remember correctly, voided the last year of his contract and walked away. He said in an interview that he knew the Saints weren\'t serious about keeping him b/c if they were they would have already made an offer. He said that at the time, the trend was to let \"expensive\" players leave - I think at the time he cited Johnson and Glover... I think that\'s a valid point. I don\'t want the Saints to just give the players what they want, not by any means. However, what message is sent to the players when guys like Tebucky Jones and Aaron Brooks get top five money without having proven a thing, and guys like Joe Horn or Sammy Knight - leaders both by their play and by their attitudes - get stiffed when it comes time to renegotiate? Think McKenzie, Deuce, Bentley, Grant, etc. aren\'t seeing that kind of stuff and taking note? Think that may change their posture when they come to the table? Think that might affect the Saints\' ability to sign players through FA? I\'m not supporting a Horn contract for top 5 money, but even if he were to get one, I don\'t know how much it hurts in regard to other players negotiating. I mean, if Deuce says, \"Horn got top 5, I want top 5,\" the organization\'s response can be \"Horn produced top five numbers on the field. You didn\'t.\" On the flip side, young guys like Deuce or Bentley or Grant might look at the opposite situation and say \"Man, Joe Horn went to the Pro Bowl 4 of the last 5 years, got paid half of what other guys who produced like that got paid, did everything this team asked and more, and they still won\'t give the guy a contract?! Screw renegotiating, they can franchise me or I\'ll hit the market and see what I can get.\" Quote:
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Any conversation about Joe Horn begins with Joe Horn wanting top 5 pay. And that comes from Joe Horn himself. Is Joe Horn worth that much money? WhoDat, BlackandBlue, and many others want to point to Joe Horn\'s stats and say he is indeed a top 5 receiever. But, there are all kind of receivers in the NFL who have simular or better stats. Here are Rod Smith\'s stats. Is he a top 5 receiver also? Rod Smith 1998 Denver Broncos 16 16 86 1222 1999 Denver Broncos 15 15 79 1020 2000 Denver Broncos 16 16 100 1602 2001 Denver Broncos 15 14 113 1343 2002 Denver Broncos 16 16 89 1027 2003 Denver Broncos 15 15 74 845 2004 Denver Broncos 16 16 79 1144 Here are Derick Mason\'s stats. He\'s top 5 too? Derick Mason: 2001 Tennessee Titans 15 15 73 1128 2002 Tennessee Titans 14 14 79 1012 2003 Tennessee Titans 16 16 95 1303 2004 Tennessee Titans 16 16 96 1168 Here are Tory Holt\'s stats. Top 5 too? Tory Holt: 2000 STL 16 15 82 1635 2001 STL 16 15 81 1363 2002 STL 16 12 91 1302 2003 STL 16 15 117 1696 2004 STL 16 16 94 1372 Here are Amani Toomer\'s stats. Top 5 too? Amani Toomer: 1999 New York Giants 16 16 79 1183 2000 New York Giants 16 14 78 1094 2001 New York Giants 16 14 72 1054 2002 New York Giants 16 16 82 1343 2003 New York Giants 16 16 63 1057 Here are Issac Bruce\'s stats. Top 5 too? Issac Bruce: 1999 St. Louis Rams 16 16 77 1165 2000 St. Louis Rams 16 16 87 1471 2001 St. Louis Rams 16 16 64 1106 2002 St. Louis Rams 16 16 79 1075 2003 St. Louis Rams 15 15 69 981 2004 St. Louis Rams 16 16 89 1292 Who here would pay Issac Bruce top 5 money? He\'s got the stats to back it up just like Joe Horn. Would you pay Rod Smith top 5 money? He\'s got the stats to back it up. Would you pay Derick Mason top 5 money? He\'s got the stats just like Joe Horn. Let\'s face it. Stats are nice. Lots of receivers have stats like Joe Horn. But stats are not what makes a player great. Bottom line: I can make the same arguement for many receivers and say they are top 5 based on stats. WhoDat, do you disagree with that? |
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I\'m pointing at his stats.
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However, WhoDat and others HAVE made the arguement that Joes stats makes him one of the truly elite receivers in the NFL. Hey, Rod Smith has about the same stats. So do Issac Bruce, Derick Mason, and Amani Toomer. At some point, you\'ve got to say all those guys CAN\'T be top 5 guys. But if you look at stats ... you can say ALL of them deserve top 5 money. It just doesn\'t make sense to me. I just can\'t see how Rod Smith deserves top 5 pay. But, hey, look at this. Rod Smith 1998 Denver Broncos 16 16 86 1222 1999 Denver Broncos 15 15 79 1020 2000 Denver Broncos 16 16 100 1602 2001 Denver Broncos 15 14 113 1343 2002 Denver Broncos 16 16 89 1027 2003 Denver Broncos 15 15 74 845 Rod Smith has 2 seasons with over 100-catches. Joe Horn has NEVER done that. You\'ve got to say Rod Smith is better than Joe Horn if you go off stats? Right or wrong? I really don\'t know what you think about the Joe Horn situation. And I\'m being honest. [Edited on 18/3/2005 by GumboBC] |
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Rod Smith is scheduled to make $3.5 million this year, $3 million next year, $5.5 million in 2007, and $6.5 million in 2008. At one time, I would have put Smith in the top 5, but not anymore.
Isaac Bruce is scheduled to make $5.8 million this year and $6.5 million next year. This is the back-end of his contract, so all those years of making double the league minimum are somewhat justified (2000-2002) [Edited on 18/3/2005 by BlackandBlue] |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
There\'s a key difference that you fail to recognize, or simply discount as worthless, like so many other relevant points that you choose to ignore.
Joe Horn has been deemed one of the three best WRs in the NFC (so in the top 6 in the NFL) by NFL coaches, players, fans, and media analysts four of the last five years. I THINK Harrison can say that, as can Moss and Owens. Maybe Holt can. Who else can? What that says to me is that it isn\'t a crazy idea to believe that (a) Joe Horn performs every game at a level amongst the best in the league, (b) he is extremely valuable to his franchise, or (c) that there is something more than just good stats - that the guy comes through in the clutch, whether he\'s one of ten targets or the only target playing on a bum leg. The bottom line is, those types of guys are hard to find. Maybe you can say that Deuce is more valuable than Horn. Going forward into the future that\'s a safe assumption. However, over the last 5 years you would be hard pressed to find a single guy more valuable to the New Orleans Saints. You don\'t simply dump a guy like that. Now you can twist things all you want, but my position remains the same. I am NOT suggesting that Horn should get a huge signing bonus, guaranteed money, or a huge salary. I\'m saying that he deserves a contract with large escalation clauses that kick in incentives to pay him commisserate to his play. I\'m saying his contract should be back loaded, although the guy deserves some sort of bonus up front. It feels to me that people are just unhappy about paying players. There has been talk on this board in the past (I was included) where people have voiced discontent with players not performing up to their pay. That\'s a recurring problem with this team. Finally, when you get a guy who out-performs it, you want to stiff him. So players should play out their contracts and except low-ball salaries, but teams should have the right to cut them at any point and never have to pay them their real value? C\'mon. You guys act like the Saints are the only team considering rewarding a player for years of great service. Do you guys think that with A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS sunk in to Manning and contract years coming up for Pollard, Edge, Wayne, and Stokely the Colts decided that Marvin Harrison was their future and they NEEDED to sign him to a 7 year nearly 70 MILLION DOLLAR contract? |
Who is the new BnG dealer?
Gumbo....
What I don\'t understand is that you were pointing to the irrelevance of stats before, and now you\'re using them to back your argument. Your thing was \"what I\'ve seen with my own 2 eyes\" or something like that. Now you\'re saying that Rod Smith\'s 100 catch seasons may make him better than Horn (based on stats). The answer to you is, yes, Rod Smith has been a top receiver over the last few years. He is a consistent guy who flies under the radar because he is pretty low key. You listed guys that I think are mostly top 10. The question becomes the ordering at the top, which is what I was telling you yesterday. There are the guys who most experts would put above Horn: Moss/TO/Holt/your boy Marvin And then there are the guys who alot of people would argue for that number 5 slot. I don\'t think it\'s outlandish to put Joe Horn there. It\'s an opinion. So here\'s the next tier of guys (excluding Horn): Rod Smith/Moose/Bruce/Mason: So, there\'s 8 guys. Add in Horn and Toomer(who I know is not better than Horn and Michigan is my team) and you have a top 10....right? Maybe Javon Walker is a close 11th, maybe he\'s better than Amani. You also have to think about Ward, whose numbers may not be as high, but he has sticky hands, blocks his butt off and I would take on my team ANY day. Either way, I think Horn is at least equal to any of the other guys in that 5 slot.....it\'s a matter of opinion and I think 4 out of 5 Pro Bowls tells you that the prevailing opinion is that Horn is 5-7 in most experts\' minds. (How many receivers go to the Pro Bowl every year......6-8?...I\'m not sure.) So, with this logic (which I think makes sense), is it crazy for a guy with the ego of a pro wideout to look at this and say he\'s a top five guy? I don\'t think it is. Again, I\'m not saying that the Saints should foot this bill. I posted last night that it may be time for Horn to go with the situation deteriorating and no signs of improvement in sight. They could have easily had the foresight to lock him up for 2-3 years before last year without overpaying. I think Horn has 2 years of 80-90 catches and double digit TDs left in him. Beyond that, it\'s a crapshoot and I think he wants security past that time period, making him close to unsignable. I put some of that on Horn\'s ego and some of it on our beancounter\'s inability to take care of this business before now. Either way, it can be argued that he is the best receiver that has laced \'em up for this team and there are some who are just writing him off as just another dude playing wideout. |
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1997 Indianapolis Colts 16 15 73 866 11.9 44 6 9 2 46 1998 Indianapolis Colts 12 12 59 776 13.2 61 7 9 2 40 1999 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 115 1663 14.5 57 12 24 7 79 2000 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 102 1413 13.9 78 14 16 4 70 2001 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 109 1524 14.0 68 15 19 6 75 2002 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 143 1722 12.0 69 11 22 4 92 2003 Indianapolis Colts 15 15 94 1272 13.5 79 10 17 4 60 2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 86 1113 12.9 59 15 16 3 63 TOTAL 139 137 845 11185 13.2 79 98 147 33 56 And probably going to the hall of fame, YES. What you fail to realize Who, is Harrison is a RARE player, rare to the tune of having the best start to a career of any receiver EVER. Same with Moss, RARE. UNIQUE. ONE OF A KIND. Joe ain\'t. But i\'ll ask you this, since you say Quote:
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I think it\'s great that Joe catches a lot of passes every year. I think it\'s great that Amani Toomer, Derick Mason, Rod Smith, and many other receivers catch a lot of passes every year.
But, does that make them truly elite receivers? Not in my book. It makes them good and dependable. And that\'s nothing to sneeze at. There\'s always a place on my team of guys like that. But there\'s a big drop off between guys like Joe Horn and Derick Mason when compared to guys like Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt, and the Terrell Owens of the world. Simply put, no matter what Joe Horn\'s stats may be, he simply can\'t change the game like some receivers can. That doesn\'t mean it can\'t catch TDs or make some tough catches. He most certainly can. If we are going to pay top 5 money at the WR postion, there are better receivers out there that I would TRY to get. And if I couldn\'t get one, I still wouldn\'t pay Joe Horn top 5 pay. He\'s not worth it. [Edited on 18/3/2005 by GumboBC] |
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It\'s that simple. |
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props to joe
i\'ll just chime in my cap soap box 2 cents... i think it is is irrelevant what joe has done in the past to what you negotiate in the future. this is the nfl-what-can-you-do-for-me-next-year-league. ya can\'t dump a valuable contributor like joe? if it is too much going forward you can. not only can but should. even further, if you don\'t, you will wish you would have. big contributor, team player, great guy troy brown? yeah. sorry charlie, we can keep ya if you are interested for less than a million. think the panthers are crying over not paying moose (original panther) a $10mil bonus this year or wondering if they might have mark clayton streaking down the sideline this year? wanna reward players for what they have done? go be a titans fan. they are paying over $10mil (i think closer to 20mil) this year to players no longer with the team. ya know how old n slow eddie george got with his 3.3 ypc with them in 2003? he is still getting a check from this year for $3.5mil. hey eddie, we really thank you for those good years back in the last century. gimme troy williamson at #16 for $1mil and $6 mil extra to bid on ed hartwell if i am king over $25-30million for 4 years for 34 yr old legs. stay n play for what you signed for this year joe. pull a mccardell if ya have the balls. what do ya lose per week at 4-5mil a year? we might still get a 2nd for him next year before the trading dealine even if the rest of the world sees more the loudmouthed jive goofball rather than the tough gamer aspect we know. |
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If Joe Horn were Marvin Harrison, we WOULD NOT be having this convo. But since he ain\'t, we are. That\'s all the difference anyone needs to know. [Edited on 18/3/2005 by saintswhodi] |
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So in your opinion, Marvin Harrison will out-perform Joe Horn over the next 3 years, say, and will be more valuable to his team than Joe will be to the Saints? That\'s your take?
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Who is the new BnG dealer?
Here\'s some fast facts:
1. There were 20 receivers who went over 1000 yards receiving. 2. There were 15 receivers with 80 or more catches. 3. There were 10 receivers who caught 10 or more TDs. And five more WRs had 9 TD catches. I\'m just not convinced that Joe is SO valuable to our offesne. Now, I\'m not saying I want him gone. I\'m just saying I think there are MANY receivers who could produce simular numbers. Also, Donte\' had the most catches in his NFL career in 2005: Donte\' Stallworth NO 16 58 767 47.9 45 13.2 5 13 1 1. Donte\' caught 58 passes as the number 2 receiver. 2. Donte\' caught 5 TDs as the number 2 receiver. It\'s a big IF. But IF Donte\' was reliable enough (which he might be next year) he would be the ideal \"type\" number one receiver. Donte\' is a game changing receiver when he catches the ball. Joe Horn is not that dangerous once he catches the ball. |
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[Edited on 18/3/2005 by saintswhodi] |
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