LKelley67

i have been reading what horn just said when on 870 with kenny wilkerson. slamming loomis hard, sounds angry.
2nd hand but here's some exerpts of comments-

he said in reference to Loomis "What has he done the last two years really?"

He compared Loomis to a mob boss (funny). In most ways you can understand Joe. Two years ago, Horn came to the Saints wanting a new deal. They turned him down stating that they think he hasn't produced enough and he has to become more of a team player. He basically closed his mouth, kept the company line and had a 90 catch season last year. His agent came at Loomis with a figure way lower than expected, and Loomis balked at it. Loomis told Horn's agent that Horn still hasn't produced enough and still isn't the team player they want him to be. Horn told Kenny that in two years, Loomis hasn't produced (gotta love that comment). Horn says he will most definitely holdout, from mini camp to whenever. Joe was crying. I never heard of anyone crying over money before, especially money they haven't seen or had. I still gotta take Horn's side, even though I wouldn't sign him to Muhammad's money because NO one would. He does deserve more than the three million dollars he has now.

bignic26

LKelley I\'m new to this board but I found out very quick that you are a very wise Saints fan. Wait a minute, can a person be wise if they root for the Saints? That\'s another topic altogether. Anyway, I like your style and for the most part you know what you\'re talking about. But on this Joe deal I think you\'re way off. It seems to me that you\'re a big time Joe fan, one of the last of a dying breed. I to used to love me some Joe Horn. I thought his comments were always funny. When Joe would catch a three yard pass that happened to be a first down I would jump up and signal FIRST DOWN right along with him. I used to howl with laughter and delight when he would catch a TD and do a little dance. Then right about the time that the cell phone came out I started to realize something. I finally saw Joe for what Joe was all about, Joe. All Joe is concerned with is Joe, period.

That\'s why Loomis doesn\'t want to pay him anymore than he really deserves. Don\'t get me wrong, Joe Horn is a great WR. Maybe a top ten WR, maybe top 5. The problem is that Joe thinks he\'s a top 1 WR. Joe thinks that he\'s the best receiver to ever catch a ball. Hell, Joe thinks he the best player to ever play the game. No I\'m sorry, have I been saying \"thinks\"? I\'m sorry, Joe KNOWS he\'s God\'s gift to football. If he was a team player he wouldn\'t have to hold out. If Joe was a leader in the clubhouse he would already have a top 5 contract. But no, Joe isn\'t worried about his teammates. He\'d rather bang their wives. He\'s not worried about being a leader, but hey, what Saint is worried about leadership? All he\'s worried about is stats and money. He seems to forget how the Saints gave him a shot when he was a nobody at best 3rd receiver. He seems to forget the fact that he was VERY happy with his contract when he signed it. He\'s going to hold out because he isn\'t happy with the contract that he agreed to honor by signing the thing.

As far as his skills are concerned, he\'s still a great WR. We don\'t have anybody even close to being ready to fill his shoes. But the guy is getting old. What is he like 42 now? He\'s always complaining about some nagging injury so his body is obviously breaking down. But the biggest problem with his game is the fact that he is losing his hands. None of the Saints receivers can catch but we don\'t expect Joe Almighty to drop easy balls. Joe isn\'t the player he used to be and he isn\'t the man he used to be. He\'s gone from a lovable star who is all heart to just another spolied, self obsessed, whining, me first pro athlete. Joe is a cancer to the team and I don\'t care how much skill he has left I say let\'s trade the bum or just cut his sorry azz, damn the cap hit!!!

We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams

WhoDat

LMAO. Joe Horn - Four Pro Bowls in five years, being paid half of what other top five WRs make, and the only consistent play maker on the team is a cancer?!?! Do you watch football?


Kelley - Joe said that he didn\'t get a deal two years ago on the radio? You actually heard him say that? I mean, he DID sign a 3 year 13.5 million dollar contract extension... maybe he means top five deal???

saintswhodi

I wonder how many pro bowls Randy Moss went to the last 5 years. Maybe Minny has someone on the bench better than Randy so they would be afraid to let him ride. Oh, they don\'t and they did it anyway.

LKelley67

thanks for the props nic. however i can say that i am not a particularly big joe fan. i like him, recognize his talent and contribututions. my soapbox often though for any player is, at what price? as tight as the cap is in the nfl (vs beisbol or roundball) it makes front office mgmt more like fantasy team picking. you have 85 million to spend, would you rather moss at $7mil or joe at $4mil or mike williams at $1mil? i go for the most bang for the buck. not necessarily the cheapest but what you get for the dollar. if i could have any saints at their current contract status to be on a team i would probably take will smith number one. no player is scared. if i was king, after a 4th consecutive .500 year i would have cleaned house. i would rather a team that falls to 4-12 but you are excited about cuz ya know they are going in the right direction than plodding along in mediocrity. if the team was characterized as overachievers and not the most underachieving one in the league maybe trudge on. if the team was progressing slowly forward instead of what i characterize as hot n cold schizophrenic play maybe. beyond the 32-32 reign i know what i see with my eyes. i don\'t see progress overall. last season\'s play until the miracle 4 game job saving run was dreadful regardless of w-l. okay, enough sermon there. i would trade joe, deuce, brooks, or anyone for the right price.

who, no, i did not hear that. 2nd hand as noted. i just found several comments on different boards on his scathing commnets. i assumed it to be true then and the gist of most were all the same. i think that point was that he did feel lowballed, went along with the team, and they are still lowballing him (vs upper end contract money).

the most significant comment to me is that he declared he was going to holdout. this has been forseen by some on this board in the the previous weeks. it isnt just as easy as let him ride for another year. as in my comments above, no player is sacred. unfortunately in the hardline business world of the nfl cap, reward is not for allegiance or years of service but what can you do for me next year and how much bang for the buck am i getting. ask troy brown. if the niners couldnt keep jerry rice who are we to think joe has a ride to the saints hall of fame at whatever price he wants?

saintswhodi

Damn Kelley, you summed up what I have been saying for weeks now. Noone is sacred in the cap era. Hell I also would trade Deuce if it meant we could get Ronnie Brown. Call me disloyal, call me what you like, but I know Deuce is due a big extension and Brown is a star rookie that will afford us the luxury of having the cap room to sign bigger free agents in the future. I am not for cutting people just not to pay them, I am for replacing players who may cause the TEAM financial problems in the future. The .500 fence we have been riding for the last 4 years makes noone above scrutiny. The only no doubters for staying in my mind are Will Smith, Watson, Grant, and Bentley. After that, if alternatives could be found, I would take a look at it.

I called that.

My sentiments exactly.

Tobias-Reiper

..by the time Rice was let go by the whiners, T.O. was already establsihed as the #1 receiver..

saintswhodi

Hence all the talk of possible scenarios for replacements.

Saint_LB

I don\'t know, the whole thing seems to be getting out of hand, if you ask me. Based on everything I am reading here, you can count on getting rid of a player once he has proven he is good enough to earn top pay. Sounds like to me that you are going to be continuously running off the people who reach all-pro status. If this is today\'s game, then you can have it. I knew there was a reason I was losing interest over the years. Who wants to follow a league who has painted itself into a corner of having to let your star players go somewhere else to get paid?

Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

LKelley67

unfortunately saint lb it is all too true and becoming truer by the year as teams learn the intricacies of the cap. you can keep say 5 players at top 5 pay but that is it. you better be damn good at choosing who you want that to go to. the colts with manning and harrison cannot afford to keep edge james no matter how good he is. they will be happy to take a second round pick and go with dominick rhodes (who carried for 1000 yds when james was injured) or a j.j. arrington pick who probably can do close to the same for 1/5th the pay of a james.

it is the parity design. no more decades of dominance like the raiders or cowboys. weren\'t the bucs and raiders in the superbowl yesterday? now they are 5 and 7 (traded) picks in the draft. equally no more saints, falcons, or bengals dredging the bottom of the league absolutely every year with .500 being a dream. every team is not far from the playoffs. one year you are the worst having the first pick for peyton manning, the next you win the division 12-4. or some teams just cruise in the middle 32-32, never so bad as to be despised and never quite good enough for the playoffs.

dylan sang the times they are a changin. they already have in the nfl with free agency and the cap about 10 years ago. it is just now though that the effect of that is settling into a longterm course from that.