Well, the Bills are going on 17 years, the Browns are going on 14 years, the Rams are going on 12 years, the Jags and the Bucs are going on 9 years, Titans are going on 8 years...

So you're advocating for that?We have 4 of the last 5. How many do you enjoy if it doesn't stop this year?

I didn't advocate for anything. You asked how long rebuilding takes and I listed the some of the current playoff droughts.

But since you asked...In my mind, hiring a new head coach in the NFL is a hit or miss thing, and it seems to me, it misses more often than not. How many seasons do you give a new coach to turn things around? Two, three years? And if that coach doesn't work, how many years do you give the next guy? I'm more confident in Payton than I am in an unknown.

We've talked about it on here dozens of times this offseason how close some of those games were last year. 3 busted special teams plays from being 10-6 instead of 7-9. I don't know how long I'll be happy with losing seasons but the team is still competitive so I'm happy for now. Who knows though, if the Saints go 4-12 this season, losing by 20 every game or if it seems he's lost control of the team, I'll probably be on the "fire Payton" bandwagon, but for now, I'm not there yet.

I didn't advocate for anything. You asked how long rebuilding takes and I listed the some of the current playoff droughts.

But since you asked...In my mind, hiring a new head coach in the NFL is a hit or miss thing, and it seems to me, it misses more often than not. How many seasons do you give a new coach to turn things around? Two, three years? And if that coach doesn't work, how many years do you give the next guy? I'm more confident in Payton than I am in an unknown.

We've talked about it on here dozens of times this offseason how close some of those games were last year. 3 busted special teams plays from being 10-6 instead of 7-9. I don't know how long I'll be happy with losing seasons but the team is still competitive so I'm happy for now. Who knows though, if the Saints go 4-12 this season, losing by 20 every game or if it seems he's lost control of the team, I'll probably be on the "fire Payton" bandwagon, but for now, I'm not there yet.

Right on the mark Utah. Another missed point: if Payton and Loomis are put out of the organization, then Brees will simply leave. And I can guarantee with some of the worst NFL defenses in history over the last 3 years, that the organization will be nowhere near 7-9 or competitive for quite a while.

We have a track record with Payton defenses. A squad that is relatively healthy, limits the run, and takes the ball away is enough to make this organization a championship contender.

Payton, Brees, Loomis, Carmichael, and to some degree Allen brought us a championship. There is a workable formula. As Utah pointed out that even with some limitation, the team last year was 2-3 plays away from double digit wins and a playoff bearth.

Honestly, I worry about defensive backs now. They seem to be dropping like flies. I don't know if Breaux will ever be healthy. Will Lattimore be prepared to play this season? Can the defense be effective if Williams and Crawley end up being the primary starting corners? All I know is that after last year and what I've seen in training camp so far that each and every guy in the DB group from 1-6 had better be prepared to be thrust into the action without much dropoff at a moment's notice. Any DB that isn't prepared for that needs to be released.

SFIAH

That formula was used 8 years ago now and Payton has not been able to replicate it since.

2013 was a good D, but that's because they were fundamentally sound up front and got to the QB. They didn't get many takeaways.

I understand when you say this team was a handful of plays away from a playoff berth, but honestly....isn't that the same excuse we have heard for the past 3-4 years?? It sounds very familiar.

The disappointing truth is, in crunch time, this team has proven it will faulter, and then say a few days later "if only this play, if only that play."

I agree with you on this. But since we have evidence that it worked once, that it could come together again.


My point is that the combination of factors that I referenced in a previous post (coaching,scheme,talent, health) came together that season when it did not do so the season before, or the seasons after.



Of course it's familiar because this current iteration of the Saints under Payton are always at the cusp of having a special season if everything falls into place.
It happened in 2006. It happened in 2009 after to lackluster seasons. It happened in 2013. And despite the injury situation last year the defense made incremental improvement under Allen last season. In addition coaching changes with the D-line and LBs are showing promise.


So I presume that you believe that nothing has changed since last season that will change that? That none of the free agents, coaching changes, draft picks, or anything else that has happened since January is going to make this season any different?

The defense was better last year. It went from historically record breaking awful to injury riddled subpar. There's another year in Allen's system with better coaches, new talent, and more experience. And as I keep saying the defense only needs to be average and consistent in order for the team to get over the hump.

Will it be? I don't know yet. However if you really believe that none of the changes could possibly make a difference, I guess the season is lost before it has even started.

SFIAH

I'd like to believe things are different, I actually like the coaching changes Payton has made, I just wish we could keep defensive backs healthy for more than a week. That's not Paytons fault though, they are just all made of glass.

I'd like to believe things are different, I actually like the coaching changes Payton has made, I just wish we could keep defensive backs healthy for more than a week. That's not Paytons fault though, they are just all made of glass.