The schellacking will be televised

FinSaint · 09-14-2017, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We all know Pete Carmichael is a better OC than Payton and it now seems Payton gets too involved with defense, which is nowhere near his strong suit.

Granted I'm not any kind of an authority in the subject, but I don't agree.

I was not impressed when he took over for SP.

Sent from my FRD-L19 using Tapatalk

dizzle88 · 09-14-2017, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Well, when you waste six plus years see-sawing back and forth over what kind of scheme you want to run, drafting personnel for a 4-3 and then for a 3-4 only to go back to a 4-3, you can expect these kind of results...

Firmly believe Payton the Coach would be fine with a strong GM who actually built the team, both personnel and defensive coaches, and who could veto Payton on personnel moves...

Payton gets in trouble when he has too much control with no checks and balances (see Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly, Chuck Pagano); the only guy that's been able to do it is Bill Belichick, but in the Pat's HC's rare candid interviews, Belichick talks about actually listening, trusting his people...

Agree with the criticism that D.A. is basically a yes man (he's been a HC and he's not HC material) and that's why Payton hasn't seen this defense continue to improve as communication seems to be a problem with D.A. and that's why he has such a strong support staff in place (i.e. Nolan, Nielsen, Glenn)...

The one guy who challenged Payton during his tenure, Williams, well you could tell it was still personal when Payton chose to show the entire playbook against the Rams last season - this was the worst side of Payton I've seen besides the public bullying of Ryan on the sidelines...

With Payton having absolute organizational power and a 92yo, virtually cuckolded, team owner in Benson who's just happy to be alive at this point with his one Superbowl ring, Payton has to show rare self-discipline and continue this path he's started of actually listening and trusting good people he's brought in (i.e. Ireland, Nolan) or he will find himself in the same position as Jim Mora after he lost Jim Finks - ruining the good will he's built with the fans...

That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history.

SmashMouth · 09-14-2017, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history.

... similar to Dan Fouts back in the day.

CheramieIII · 09-14-2017, 07:35 AM

35-17 Saints I'm sticking with it

neugey · 09-14-2017, 09:12 AM

There are similarities between Payton and Phil Jackson with the Knicks as GM ... highest/overpaid at what he does, genius label, championship coach, beholden by ownership, adamantly sticking to same offense which doesn't fit current personnel and doing a lousy job. And now with AP, you can add alienating star players to the list.

SaintGup · 09-14-2017, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

My wife is a Pats fan, we can't let this happen

Ruh-roh! Prepare for tears my friend.

jeanpierre · 09-14-2017, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history.

One of two possible answers lies in your question, Dizz...

Either Payton continues to stay on this course he started on his own - sharing, trusting responsibilities to the people in the war room, or...

It's a Don Shula Dynasty that lasts as long as Benson; we'll see good players like Marino come and go, limited by a benevolent dictator who refuses to change...

I've been to the rodeo with regards to the last part in fraternal bodies, non-profits and in businesses - it never ends pretty, with lots of bodies along the way...

We're just not a country meant for Machiavellian princes nor benevolent dictators - our businesses, athletic clubs, fraternities, nor government can not tolerate them and survive...

Rugby Saint II · 09-14-2017, 02:54 PM

The problem is that Loomis is a bean counter and not an experienced football GM. Payton has too much control and knows nothing about defense. A real GM wouldn't let us flounder from 3-4 to 4-3 and back for years and years.

I believe Ireland should be the GM and Loomis should be the magical accountant that makes things happen. Pull some power away from Payton and let the front office run things like a real football organization does.

gulfgambler · 09-14-2017, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by CheramieIII

35-17 Saints I'm sticking with it

When did they legalize POT in Georgia?

CharityMike · 09-14-2017, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

My wife is a Pats fan, we can't let this happen

I feel your pain QB..my wife is as well..sigh. She loves her some Gronk. And to make matters worse, I have to pull for Gronk cause he is on my FF team.

09-14-2017, 07:09 AM	#31
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by dizzle88 We all know Pete Carmichael is a better OC than Payton and it now seems Payton gets too involved with defense, which is nowhere near his strong suit. Granted I'm not any kind of an authority in the subject, but I don't agree. I was not impressed when he took over for SP. Sent from my FRD-L19 using Tapatalk

09-14-2017, 07:11 AM	#32
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,358	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by jeanpierre Well, when you waste six plus years see-sawing back and forth over what kind of scheme you want to run, drafting personnel for a 4-3 and then for a 3-4 only to go back to a 4-3, you can expect these kind of results... Firmly believe Payton the Coach would be fine with a strong GM who actually built the team, both personnel and defensive coaches, and who could veto Payton on personnel moves... Payton gets in trouble when he has too much control with no checks and balances (see Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly, Chuck Pagano); the only guy that's been able to do it is Bill Belichick, but in the Pat's HC's rare candid interviews, Belichick talks about actually listening, trusting his people... Agree with the criticism that D.A. is basically a yes man (he's been a HC and he's not HC material) and that's why Payton hasn't seen this defense continue to improve as communication seems to be a problem with D.A. and that's why he has such a strong support staff in place (i.e. Nolan, Nielsen, Glenn)... The one guy who challenged Payton during his tenure, Williams, well you could tell it was still personal when Payton chose to show the entire playbook against the Rams last season - this was the worst side of Payton I've seen besides the public bullying of Ryan on the sidelines... With Payton having absolute organizational power and a 92yo, virtually cuckolded, team owner in Benson who's just happy to be alive at this point with his one Superbowl ring, Payton has to show rare self-discipline and continue this path he's started of actually listening and trusting good people he's brought in (i.e. Ireland, Nolan) or he will find himself in the same position as Jim Mora after he lost Jim Finks - ruining the good will he's built with the fans... That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history. MatthewT and jeanpierre like this.

09-14-2017, 07:18 AM	#33
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,201 Blog Entries: 29	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by dizzle88 That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history. ... similar to Dan Fouts back in the day. jeanpierre, dizzle88 and K Major like this.

09-14-2017, 07:35 AM	#34
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: The schellacking will be televised 35-17 Saints I'm sticking with it jnormand, Utah_Saint and K Major like this.

09-14-2017, 09:12 AM	#35
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	Re: The schellacking will be televised There are similarities between Payton and Phil Jackson with the Knicks as GM ... highest/overpaid at what he does, genius label, championship coach, beholden by ownership, adamantly sticking to same offense which doesn't fit current personnel and doing a lousy job. And now with AP, you can add alienating star players to the list.

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09-14-2017, 09:25 AM	#36
SaintGup 500th Post Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: London, England Posts: 580	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by QBREES9 My wife is a Pats fan, we can't let this happen Ruh-roh! Prepare for tears my friend.

09-14-2017, 12:23 PM	#37
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by dizzle88 That's what worries me, Benson will not do anything about it at this point so how much longer do we have to suffer with bad/mediocre teams being fielded, when we are wasting valuable years of arguably the most dominant QB in NFL history. One of two possible answers lies in your question, Dizz... Either Payton continues to stay on this course he started on his own - sharing, trusting responsibilities to the people in the war room, or... It's a Don Shula Dynasty that lasts as long as Benson; we'll see good players like Marino come and go, limited by a benevolent dictator who refuses to change... I've been to the rodeo with regards to the last part in fraternal bodies, non-profits and in businesses - it never ends pretty, with lots of bodies along the way... We're just not a country meant for Machiavellian princes nor benevolent dictators - our businesses, athletic clubs, fraternities, nor government can not tolerate them and survive... dizzle88 likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

09-14-2017, 02:54 PM	#38
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: The schellacking will be televised The problem is that Loomis is a bean counter and not an experienced football GM. Payton has too much control and knows nothing about defense. A real GM wouldn't let us flounder from 3-4 to 4-3 and back for years and years. I believe Ireland should be the GM and Loomis should be the magical accountant that makes things happen. Pull some power away from Payton and let the front office run things like a real football organization does. dizzle88 likes this.

09-14-2017, 04:01 PM	#39
gulfgambler Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Tomball Posts: 1,097	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by CheramieIII 35-17 Saints I'm sticking with it When did they legalize POT in Georgia? Rugby Saint II likes this.

09-14-2017, 05:06 PM	#40
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: The schellacking will be televised Originally Posted by QBREES9 My wife is a Pats fan, we can't let this happen I feel your pain QB..my wife is as well..sigh. She loves her some Gronk. And to make matters worse, I have to pull for Gronk cause he is on my FF team.

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