Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense

Danno · 09-22-2017, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Where is the evidence that it's been solid since 2015? We have Lattimore... Who else is showing up on that side of the ball, in any draft we've had recently? Rankins was at least a good pick, on paper, but he isn't showing anything right now. I know he's young, but until I see anyone other than Lattimore showing up, I'm not going to declare these drafts anything close to a success.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.

burningmetal · 09-22-2017, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.

Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't.

QBREES9 · 09-22-2017, 10:29 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/8b3a2...-some-bad.html

CharityMike · 09-22-2017, 10:52 PM

To slow bro

http://blackandgold.com/saints/84366...d-defense.html

Utah_Saint · 09-22-2017, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't.

Well, there's been...

2015
P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point.
Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes.
Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season

2016
Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets.
David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline.
Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season.

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far.
Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts.
Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games.

Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents.

That's a whole lotta guys to just write off.

QBREES9 · 09-23-2017, 12:11 AM

Like smokey said, And WE KNOW THIS MAN!. From the movie FRIDAYS, Chris Tucker. If you didn't know, now you know.

QBREES9 · 09-23-2017, 12:12 AM

Yup!!! LOL

burningmetal · 09-23-2017, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Well, there's been...

2015
P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point.
Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes.
Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season

2016
Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets.
David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline.
Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season.

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far.
Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts.
Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games.

Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents.

That's a whole lotta guys to just write off.

So you just named all of the guys who have been drafted, but couldn't give me one legitimate reason to say that any of them have, or will pan out? Aside from Lattimore, who I already mentioned as the lone real bright spot.

No offense to you, but it doesn't seem like you read my posts very thoroughly. I didn't write off a single player. I specifically said that some could come along later, but they haven't as of now. This year's rookie class gets a temporary pass because they are still rookies. The others are a different story.

Kikaha is one dimensional and frankly doesn't provide much in that one area. Yeah, he got a sack the other day, and what else? Where's the consistent pressure? Davison has shown flashes... Ok. Could I have some production? PJ Williams leads us in tackles... And who is he covering these days? You're using his tackles as a barometer for success? Isn't it alarming that a corner leads the team in tackles? Rankins barely played enough to put up solid numbers as a rookie. But what is he doing now? He's got time to put it together, but right now, he's nowhere to be seen. This team has not developed a legitimate DT in this millennium.

And instead of considering the fact that we have a lot of young players starting on defense as a sign that we've drafted well, could it be, instead, that this is actually a serious problem and a big reason why our defense is so bad? What has Vonn Bell shown? And if he's in the wrong scheme, then why draft him?

All of these excuses are like plugging holes in a sinking ship with your fingers. At some point, it's time to accept reality and get off the ship (no, I don't mean stop being a fan, I mean it's time for people to stop trying to defend these guys). Anzalone and Williams look like rookies. They have their qualities, but nothing is standing out. As I said, the rookies get a pass for this season.

hagan714 · 09-23-2017, 07:01 AM

2015
P.J. Williams - Can he stay healthy? Gun shy? Talent is there
Tyler Davison - Solid depth but replaceable
Hau'oli Kikaha - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there to be a pass rush specialist

2016
Von Bell - Smaller version of Kenny so far?
David Onymata - the next gem in the rough?
Sheldon Rankins - he needs a complementary NT?

2017
Marshon Lattimore - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there
Marcus Williams - Talent appears to be there but he needs a true SS
Alex Anzalone - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there
Hendrickson - Now he is an injury issue?
Muhammad - the next gem in the rough?

Now in DA defense he has done a great job raiding teams of players that were backups to piece together starting units. 2017 was LB. This is a great Greg Williams trait he picked up on. Talent that does not kill your cap. But it takes time to build a team this way.

I am hoping the saints get the complementary pieces to make picks work. The saints have not done a great job of this. A true SS is still on my list as is a space eating NT. Then we can better judge some of these picks better.

Injuries are killing the saints yet again

vpheughan · 09-23-2017, 12:39 PM

Payton, Brian Billick, Mike Shanahan and John Gruden all shop at the same "Washed Up Super Bowl Winning Coach" Wal-Mart! It's an exclusive store!!!

09-22-2017, 08:03 PM	#11
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,713	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Originally Posted by burningmetal Where is the evidence that it's been solid since 2015? We have Lattimore... Who else is showing up on that side of the ball, in any draft we've had recently? Rankins was at least a good pick, on paper, but he isn't showing anything right now. I know he's young, but until I see anyone other than Lattimore showing up, I'm not going to declare these drafts anything close to a success. You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong.

09-22-2017, 08:18 PM	#12
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Originally Posted by Danno You are entitled to your opinion, even if its wrong. Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't.

09-22-2017, 10:29 PM	#13
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense https://www.yahoo.com/sports/m/8b3a2...-some-bad.html

09-22-2017, 10:52 PM	#14
CharityMike Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mid City, New Orleans Posts: 3,556	Re: vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense To slow bro http://blackandgold.com/saints/84366...d-defense.html hagan714 likes this.

09-22-2017, 11:50 PM	#15
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Originally Posted by burningmetal Yes, just as you are entitled to your opinion, but please show me an example of where I am wrong? It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of fact right now. No one else but Lattimore is getting anything done on that side of the ball (other than Jordan, who doesn't fit into the current discussion). Others could come along later, but as of now, they haven't. Well, there's been... 2015 P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point. Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes. Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season 2016 Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets. David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline. Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season. 2017 Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far. Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts. Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games. Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents. That's a whole lotta guys to just write off. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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09-23-2017, 12:11 AM	#16
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Like smokey said, And WE KNOW THIS MAN!. From the movie FRIDAYS, Chris Tucker. If you didn't know, now you know. Rugby Saint II and CharityMike like this.

09-23-2017, 12:12 AM	#17
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,985	Re: vSean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Yup!!! LOL

09-23-2017, 05:31 AM	#18
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Well, there's been... 2015 P.J. Williams - Starting Cornerback. Impressed in camps, could be our best CB. Leading the team in tackles up to this point. Tyler Davison - Rotational Defensive Tackle. Hasn't overwhelmed anyone but has shown flashes. Hau'oli Kikaha - Rotational Edge Defender. Impressed in his rookie season with 4 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 2 passes defended. 1 sack in his one game this season 2016 Von Bell - Third Safety. Hard hitting free safety that maybe better at strong safety. Used in three safety sets. David Onymata - Rotational Nose Tackle. Listed on the roster as a nose tackle but can play several spots on the Dline. Sheldon Rankins - Defensive Tackle. Put up respectable numbers his rookie season. 2017 Marshon Lattimore - Starting CB. Starting as a rookie. He's been very good in coverage so far. Marcus Williams - Starting Free Safety. Also starting as a rookie. By all accounts, he has excellent instincts. Alex Anzalone - Starting weak side linebacker. Physically gifted. 8 tackles, 1 sack and 1 pass defended in his first two games. Those are the guys playing on defense right now. There's also a couple of guys with potential like Hendrickson and Muhammad. And some undrafted free agents. That's a whole lotta guys to just write off. So you just named all of the guys who have been drafted, but couldn't give me one legitimate reason to say that any of them have, or will pan out? Aside from Lattimore, who I already mentioned as the lone real bright spot. No offense to you, but it doesn't seem like you read my posts very thoroughly. I didn't write off a single player. I specifically said that some could come along later, but they haven't as of now. This year's rookie class gets a temporary pass because they are still rookies. The others are a different story. Kikaha is one dimensional and frankly doesn't provide much in that one area. Yeah, he got a sack the other day, and what else? Where's the consistent pressure? Davison has shown flashes... Ok. Could I have some production? PJ Williams leads us in tackles... And who is he covering these days? You're using his tackles as a barometer for success? Isn't it alarming that a corner leads the team in tackles? Rankins barely played enough to put up solid numbers as a rookie. But what is he doing now? He's got time to put it together, but right now, he's nowhere to be seen. This team has not developed a legitimate DT in this millennium. And instead of considering the fact that we have a lot of young players starting on defense as a sign that we've drafted well, could it be, instead, that this is actually a serious problem and a big reason why our defense is so bad? What has Vonn Bell shown? And if he's in the wrong scheme, then why draft him? All of these excuses are like plugging holes in a sinking ship with your fingers. At some point, it's time to accept reality and get off the ship (no, I don't mean stop being a fan, I mean it's time for people to stop trying to defend these guys). Anzalone and Williams look like rookies. They have their qualities, but nothing is standing out. As I said, the rookies get a pass for this season. neugey, Barry from MS and K Major like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

09-23-2017, 07:01 AM	#19
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense 2015 P.J. Williams - Can he stay healthy? Gun shy? Talent is there Tyler Davison - Solid depth but replaceable Hau'oli Kikaha - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there to be a pass rush specialist 2016 Von Bell - Smaller version of Kenny so far? David Onymata - the next gem in the rough? Sheldon Rankins - he needs a complementary NT? 2017 Marshon Lattimore - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there Marcus Williams - Talent appears to be there but he needs a true SS Alex Anzalone - Can he stay healthy? Talent is there Hendrickson - Now he is an injury issue? Muhammad - the next gem in the rough? Now in DA defense he has done a great job raiding teams of players that were backups to piece together starting units. 2017 was LB. This is a great Greg Williams trait he picked up on. Talent that does not kill your cap. But it takes time to build a team this way. I am hoping the saints get the complementary pieces to make picks work. The saints have not done a great job of this. A true SS is still on my list as is a space eating NT. Then we can better judge some of these picks better. Injuries are killing the saints yet again
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 09-23-2017 at 10:02 AM..

09-23-2017, 12:39 PM	#20
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515	Re: Sean Payton admits some bad picks have led to bad defense Payton, Brian Billick, Mike Shanahan and John Gruden all shop at the same "Washed Up Super Bowl Winning Coach" Wal-Mart! It's an exclusive store!!!
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,515

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