Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft!

GoldenTomb · 04-16-2005, 05:29 AM

Different teams have to operate differently. The fact of the matter is that New Orleans has a very hard time attracting proven vets to come here and play at the same price that they would go to a proven winner. You say you would prefer a proven vet. Well a proven vet would prefer a proven winner, which we aren\'t. Because of this, we have to build primarily through the draft. You saw how Antonio Pierce just blew us off a month and a half ago.

The way that this team gets better is through the draft. It takes a lot more FO savvy to build a team through the draft. A top notch player is wooed by either a competent FO with a well built team, or a lot of money. That\'s the reality.

A team can do very well in the draft, when they make informed, well thought out selections. A perfect example is Detroit\'s draft last year.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GoldenTomb]

Zulu--King · 04-16-2005, 05:38 AM

Spikes went from Cinn to Buffalo. How high could his standards have been? I do agree that a lot of FAs diss us, but the Giants and Cards are getting players.

GoldenTomb · 04-16-2005, 05:46 AM

Spikes went from Cinn to Buffalo. How high could his standards have been? I do agree that a lot of FAs diss us, but the Giants and Cards are getting players.

Buffalo is somewhat of a storied franchise, having gone to the Super Bowl those 4 straight years. People still consider them a highly legit team, and they have a huge following. The Giants play in the largest market in the NFL, which wooed Eli Manning in an unprecedented pre-draft ordeal. The Giants also went to the Super Bowl in the \'00-\'01 season. I would say we are on the prestige level of the Cards, and I don\'t know anyone impressive that they\'ve attracted in the past few years.

We will only start attracting high caliber players when we can string together more than one good season. And that doesn\'t mean going 8-8 or 9-7 and almost making the playoffs. That means going 13-3 and 10-6 in consecutive seasons, something like that. I gotta be honest, I wouldn\'t want to come here if I was an NFL player.

Zulu--King · 04-16-2005, 06:24 AM

These players were still riding big wheels when Bills made their SB runs. I don\'t remember their last winning season, and the Saints have just as big a following. I don\'t see anyone flocking to the Niners, despite their fabled past.

The Cards have signed some real help, and are now talking to Henry. Denny is just warming up. They have a very high pick, also. They already have deadly WRs & a nice D. Warner will help groom a new QB .

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

Mostly every player who leaves here bad mouths us in the press. Benson needs to look at that, when deciding if he should usher in a new regime. Turdly tried to blow us up. Now, the word arund the league is that Haz starts and sticks with players he likes, and playing time isn\'t based on merit. Things have to change from the FO.

GoldenTomb · 04-16-2005, 09:11 AM

These players were still riding big wheels when Bills made their SB runs. I don\'t remember their last winning season, and the Saints have just as big a following. I don\'t see anyone flocking to the Niners, despite their fabled past.

The Cards have signed some real help, and are now talking to Henry. Denny is just warming up. They have a very high pick, also. They already have deadly WRs & a nice D. Warner will help groom a new QB .

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

Mostly every player who leaves here bad mouths us in the press. Benson needs to look at that, when deciding if he should usher in a new regime. Turdly tried to blow us up. Now, the word arund the league is that Haz starts and sticks with players he likes, and playing time isn\'t based on merit. Things have to change from the FO.

I was just starting high school when the Bills ended their run. That is the time those FA were in high school and starting college. Think that maybe teams in their hay-day in that time period(i.e. Buffalo, Dallas, San Fran) still can attract top FAs. San Fran hasn\'t been able to because they\'ve JUST emerged from salary cap hell.

Cards are doing a lot better but if you\'ve noticed, their wide outs all came from the draft, the past three years at that. I think Karlos Dansby will turn out to be a solid, servicable player, if nothing else. It makes the most financial sense to build the team through the draft, and just plug minor holes through free agency. I guess we just should agree to disagree on the method that this team should rebuild.

I do agree that the FO needs to change. The problem is that we\'ll probably have another 8-8 or 9-7 season, giving Benson just enough reason to let them stay.

GumboBC · 04-16-2005, 09:29 AM

Very interesting discussion between GT and Zulu--King.

Both of you make some good points. But I agree mostly with GoldenTomb.

I think the high profile free-agents want to go to a team that has a legit shot of making it to the super bowl. Now, I think that \"money\" is what they are really after. But the money is there from teams like the Cowboys, Eagles, Panthers, etc., ect...

Who would you choose? The Saints?!

And the city in which the team plays in has something to do with it. I love New Orleans, but there are better places to live. For many different reasons.

And if a player has just become a millionaire, then New Orleans might not be as attractive as some other cities.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GumboBC]

SaintFanInATLHELL · 04-16-2005, 01:28 PM

I have no idea how anyonne can say that T Davis is a reach in the first??????

Because he\'s a tweener, and there is no certainty that a tweener can function in the Saints organization. Not because of the player... but because of the organization.

The Saints need to draft a player in the first round that will succeed despite poor coaching and scheme. We have poor coaching and scheme here.

My thought process is simple: draft an exceptional player or trade down. I no longer trust the coaching staff to assist in developing talent. The Saints need to spend their first round pick on a player with talent, polish, and ill intentions.

My brother sent me the Detillier Draft Report. When I look up players, I only read the negatives. From the Sully experience (and Cie Grant too) we know now that players with poor work ethics, soft dispositions, or prone to injury, will have those traits amplified in this organization. See aforementioned Sully and Grant.

However Davis could be the guy. Quoting Detillier:

Davis is a very tough, physical player, who could project to safety of linebacker... you just can\'t come away and not be impressed by his intincts, his playmaking skills against the run and his destructive open field hits. No matter where Davis is lined up in the pros, you can bet the bank that he will emerge as a playmater and true impact performer.

It seems that all of his negatives are at the safety position. emphesis mine...

...he needs work on his coverage skills and over pass coverage techniques. He is so aggressive, he will bite hard on play action fakes and get pulled out of position against the pass. There is no question that he is better coming up the field, than dropping back into coverage assignments.

Sounds like a nearly perfect linebacker.

SFIAH

Zulu--King · 04-16-2005, 03:33 PM

Very interesting discussion between GT and Zulu--King.

Both of you make some good points. But I agree mostly with GoldenTomb.

And the city in which the team plays in has something to do with it. I love New Orleans, but there are better places to live. For many different reasons.

And if a player has just become a millionaire, then New Orleans might not be as attractive as some other cities.

[Edited on 16/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Foiled again... Welp, I\'m a rookie so I don\'t have to be right, just heard. I enjoy the discussions here.

I\'m not looking to stock the team with expensive FAs. Its just that we\'ve had no luck at drafting lbs, and I wonder if we even made an effort to sign that stud FA. Maybe we should leave these tweeners alone in the draft. Thats why I\'m afraid of drafting Davis. I don\'t want him wasted for two years if he\'s having a hard time at OLB.

Great point about the city itself dissauding some players . If the Saints move, I\'m moving to Pensacola

GumboBC · 04-16-2005, 03:45 PM

Zulu--King --

Hey, man ... I don\'t know much, but the one thing I do know is that no one is ever \"right\" here at B&G.

So, take no offense when someone disagrees with ya. Not that you did.

I do agree that the Saints\' have not gone after the top free-agents as agressively as they should have. But that\'s pure speculation on my part. I really have no idea what the hell they do.

I do no they\'ve gone after some but were unable to sign them. But I\'ve gotta believe they could have signed one of them. Maybe they would have to give up more than some other team. Who knows?

Peace.

Zulu--King · 04-16-2005, 03:58 PM

I was just in a silly mood this morning, and wouldn\'t take offense at someone disagreeing.

Debates are good, since they help me pad my stats and move up the depth chart.

04-16-2005, 05:29 AM	#11
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Different teams have to operate differently. The fact of the matter is that New Orleans has a very hard time attracting proven vets to come here and play at the same price that they would go to a proven winner. You say you would prefer a proven vet. Well a proven vet would prefer a proven winner, which we aren\'t. Because of this, we have to build primarily through the draft. You saw how Antonio Pierce just blew us off a month and a half ago. The way that this team gets better is through the draft. It takes a lot more FO savvy to build a team through the draft. A top notch player is wooed by either a competent FO with a well built team, or a lot of money. That\'s the reality. A team can do very well in the draft, when they make informed, well thought out selections. A perfect example is Detroit\'s draft last year. [Edited on 16/4/2005 by GoldenTomb]
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

04-16-2005, 05:38 AM	#12
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Spikes went from Cinn to Buffalo. How high could his standards have been? I do agree that a lot of FAs diss us, but the Giants and Cards are getting players.
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150

04-16-2005, 05:46 AM	#13
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Spikes went from Cinn to Buffalo. How high could his standards have been? I do agree that a lot of FAs diss us, but the Giants and Cards are getting players. Buffalo is somewhat of a storied franchise, having gone to the Super Bowl those 4 straight years. People still consider them a highly legit team, and they have a huge following. The Giants play in the largest market in the NFL, which wooed Eli Manning in an unprecedented pre-draft ordeal. The Giants also went to the Super Bowl in the \'00-\'01 season. I would say we are on the prestige level of the Cards, and I don\'t know anyone impressive that they\'ve attracted in the past few years. We will only start attracting high caliber players when we can string together more than one good season. And that doesn\'t mean going 8-8 or 9-7 and almost making the playoffs. That means going 13-3 and 10-6 in consecutive seasons, something like that. I gotta be honest, I wouldn\'t want to come here if I was an NFL player.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

04-16-2005, 06:24 AM	#14
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! These players were still riding big wheels when Bills made their SB runs. I don\'t remember their last winning season, and the Saints have just as big a following. I don\'t see anyone flocking to the Niners, despite their fabled past. The Cards have signed some real help, and are now talking to Henry. Denny is just warming up. They have a very high pick, also. They already have deadly WRs & a nice D. Warner will help groom a new QB . http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns Mostly every player who leaves here bad mouths us in the press. Benson needs to look at that, when deciding if he should usher in a new regime. Turdly tried to blow us up. Now, the word arund the league is that Haz starts and sticks with players he likes, and playing time isn\'t based on merit. Things have to change from the FO.
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	<html> <center> http://community.webtv.net/ZULU--KIN...s/importD1.jpg </center> </html>

04-16-2005, 09:11 AM	#15
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! These players were still riding big wheels when Bills made their SB runs. I don\'t remember their last winning season, and the Saints have just as big a following. I don\'t see anyone flocking to the Niners, despite their fabled past. The Cards have signed some real help, and are now talking to Henry. Denny is just warming up. They have a very high pick, also. They already have deadly WRs & a nice D. Warner will help groom a new QB . http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns Mostly every player who leaves here bad mouths us in the press. Benson needs to look at that, when deciding if he should usher in a new regime. Turdly tried to blow us up. Now, the word arund the league is that Haz starts and sticks with players he likes, and playing time isn\'t based on merit. Things have to change from the FO. I was just starting high school when the Bills ended their run. That is the time those FA were in high school and starting college. Think that maybe teams in their hay-day in that time period(i.e. Buffalo, Dallas, San Fran) still can attract top FAs. San Fran hasn\'t been able to because they\'ve JUST emerged from salary cap hell. Cards are doing a lot better but if you\'ve noticed, their wide outs all came from the draft, the past three years at that. I think Karlos Dansby will turn out to be a solid, servicable player, if nothing else. It makes the most financial sense to build the team through the draft, and just plug minor holes through free agency. I guess we just should agree to disagree on the method that this team should rebuild. I do agree that the FO needs to change. The problem is that we\'ll probably have another 8-8 or 9-7 season, giving Benson just enough reason to let them stay.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

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04-16-2005, 09:29 AM	#16
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Very interesting discussion between GT and Zulu--King. Both of you make some good points. But I agree mostly with GoldenTomb. I think the high profile free-agents want to go to a team that has a legit shot of making it to the super bowl. Now, I think that \"money\" is what they are really after. But the money is there from teams like the Cowboys, Eagles, Panthers, etc., ect... Who would you choose? The Saints?! And the city in which the team plays in has something to do with it. I love New Orleans, but there are better places to live. For many different reasons. And if a player has just become a millionaire, then New Orleans might not be as attractive as some other cities. [Edited on 16/4/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-16-2005, 01:28 PM	#17
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! I have no idea how anyonne can say that T Davis is a reach in the first?????? Because he\'s a tweener, and there is no certainty that a tweener can function in the Saints organization. Not because of the player... but because of the organization. The Saints need to draft a player in the first round that will succeed despite poor coaching and scheme. We have poor coaching and scheme here. My thought process is simple: draft an exceptional player or trade down. I no longer trust the coaching staff to assist in developing talent. The Saints need to spend their first round pick on a player with talent, polish, and ill intentions. My brother sent me the Detillier Draft Report. When I look up players, I only read the negatives. From the Sully experience (and Cie Grant too) we know now that players with poor work ethics, soft dispositions, or prone to injury, will have those traits amplified in this organization. See aforementioned Sully and Grant. However Davis could be the guy. Quoting Detillier: Davis is a very tough, physical player, who could project to safety of linebacker... you just can\'t come away and not be impressed by his intincts, his playmaking skills against the run and his destructive open field hits. No matter where Davis is lined up in the pros, you can bet the bank that he will emerge as a playmater and true impact performer. It seems that all of his negatives are at the safety position. emphesis mine... ...he needs work on his coverage skills and over pass coverage techniques. He is so aggressive, he will bite hard on play action fakes and get pulled out of position against the pass. There is no question that he is better coming up the field, than dropping back into coverage assignments. Sounds like a nearly perfect linebacker. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

04-16-2005, 03:33 PM	#18
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Very interesting discussion between GT and Zulu--King. Both of you make some good points. But I agree mostly with GoldenTomb. And the city in which the team plays in has something to do with it. I love New Orleans, but there are better places to live. For many different reasons. And if a player has just become a millionaire, then New Orleans might not be as attractive as some other cities. [Edited on 16/4/2005 by GumboBC] Foiled again... Welp, I\'m a rookie so I don\'t have to be right, just heard. I enjoy the discussions here. I\'m not looking to stock the team with expensive FAs. Its just that we\'ve had no luck at drafting lbs, and I wonder if we even made an effort to sign that stud FA. Maybe we should leave these tweeners alone in the draft. Thats why I\'m afraid of drafting Davis. I don\'t want him wasted for two years if he\'s having a hard time at OLB. Great point about the city itself dissauding some players . If the Saints move, I\'m moving to Pensacola
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	<html> <center> http://community.webtv.net/ZULU--KIN...s/importD1.jpg </center> </html>

04-16-2005, 03:45 PM	#19
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! Zulu--King -- Hey, man ... I don\'t know much, but the one thing I do know is that no one is ever \"right\" here at B&G. So, take no offense when someone disagrees with ya. Not that you did. I do agree that the Saints\' have not gone after the top free-agents as agressively as they should have. But that\'s pure speculation on my part. I really have no idea what the hell they do. I do no they\'ve gone after some but were unable to sign them. But I\'ve gotta believe they could have signed one of them. Maybe they would have to give up more than some other team. Who knows? Peace.
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

04-16-2005, 03:58 PM	#20
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Linebackers just ain't looking too good in the draft! I was just in a silly mood this morning, and wouldn\'t take offense at someone disagreeing. Debates are good, since they help me pad my stats and move up the depth chart.
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150