Saints fans sues over protests

burningmetal · 12-13-2017, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by homerj07

NO... its not. And please don't pull the "As a Christian" - I am too.

IF it wasn't Christian prayer if it was something Buddhist or Hindu or whatever, would you still be ok with it?

If the argument is "a disrruption of the entertainment value" then the religion is the same thing.

Did you read my post? Did I not just say that while I have problems with the various religions around the world, I am not offended by their praying? I have seen it, and it did not affect me in the least. It would help you to understand my point if you simply go back and read through my entire post. It's not very long.

I also asked you, who is preaching to you? When a player says a prayer, is that in your face? Is it directed at anyone in particular? It is not a protest, and it is not done as a disruption. And what do you mean "don't pull" the as a Christian statement? What exactly am I pulling by simply stating my faith? And if you are, as you say, also a Christian, then why are you talking about not wanting to be preached to? What exactly is it that you stand for, then?

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2017, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Who is preaching to you? You want to know what the differences between the two things you mentioned are? One is a private matter that isn't stated in protest, and the other is something that entire teams are doing, and it has often been done in the middle of our National Anthem. You use the word religion, but there are a lot of different beliefs. As a Christian myself, I have a lot of problems with "religions" that pop up around the world. But if I see someone praying during a game, and I know he isn't a Christian, I am not offended. I would wish that the person were not praying to some pagan "god", or whatever else, but I believe in his right to have his religious freedom. It isn't something that is in your face, and making a political statement.

Major difference.

Major difference to you. I respect that. But you are obviously in the minority.

burningmetal · 12-13-2017, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Major difference to you. I respect that. But you are obviously in the minority.

Am I? Show me your proof. How many people are complaining about prayer? It's something that people might disagree with, depending on their beliefs, or lack thereof, but it isn't something that causes a stir. There would be a big fire storm, as with the protests, if a majority of people were offended by it. It's a private act. It might be in public, but it's not being done at an inappropriate time, and it's not directed at any "cause". So comparing that with the protests makes no sense.

I don't like the way players bleach their hair and act like they won the super bowl every time they make a big hit after giving up a 15 yard run, but I don't feel disrespected by it, nor do I feel it is championing a false narrative.

Lord_Saint83 · 12-13-2017, 07:30 AM

If we doesn't want them ill gladly take them. I've been on that waiting list for seven years now

ScottF · 12-13-2017, 07:47 AM

They should give him his money back and tell him and his family that he is banned from all future Saints game.

burningmetal · 12-13-2017, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

They should give him his money back and tell him and his family that he is banned from all future Saints game.

You're right, they SHOULD do that. Then maybe it will anger more fans and let this organization get an early taste of what the future will be like for them, with no fan support.

You can dislike people like this guy, or me, all you want for our stance on the protests, but just know that your opinion is not any more valid than anyone else's. And when the majority speaks, their voices will be heard, and their affects will be felt. If the Saints and the rest of the NFL are too bull headed to see that, and make things right, instead of acting like school ground bullies with their fans, then they will get precisely what they deserve.

ScottF · 12-13-2017, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

You're right, they SHOULD do that. Then maybe it will anger more fans and let this organization get an early taste of what the future will be like for them, with no fan support.

You can dislike people like this guy, or me, all you want for our stance on the protests, but just know that your opinion is not any more valid than anyone else's. And when the majority speaks, their voices will be heard, and their affects will be felt. If the Saints and the rest of the NFL are too bull headed to see that, and make things right, instead of acting like school ground bullies with their fans, then they will get precisely what they deserve.

Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries?

and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value.
Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club.

This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause.

burningmetal · 12-13-2017, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries?

and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value.
Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club.

This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause.

Fans absolutely get to choose what they approve of. Similar to how fans would react if the P.A. announcer got on the mic and started insulting fans, people have a right to make complaints about things that are particularly offensive to them. Fans pay the money, not the players. The players get paid because of the fans. Business 101: The customer is always right.

Does that mean that every grievance is legitimate? No. But this man is not in the minority.

And you are wrong about the majority. The negative feedback from the protests have far outweighed the positive. Not everyone has chosen to boycott, and of course that was to be expected. The more the NFL defies the wishes of it's audience, however, that will change quickly. Apparently you haven't noticed that in many places the attendance is down, and the TV ratings have been way down, all year. That is no coincidence for a league you believe is untouchable.

Lastly, he is not seeking attention. He has been GIVEN attention because of the Saints reaction and the media spreading the story.

AsylumGuido · 12-13-2017, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

Fans absolutely get to choose what they approve of. Similar to how fans would react if the P.A. announcer got on the mic and started insulting fans, people have a right to make complaints about things that are particularly offensive to them. Fans pay the money, not the players. The players get paid because of the fans. Business 101: The customer is always right.

Does that mean that every grievance is legitimate? No. But this man is not in the minority.

And you are wrong about the majority. The negative feedback from the protests have far outweighed the positive. Not everyone has chosen to boycott, and of course that was to be expected. The more the NFL defies the wishes of it's audience, however, that will change quickly. Apparently you haven't noticed that in many places the attendance is down, and the TV ratings have been way down, all year. That is no coincidence for a league you believe is untouchable.

Lastly, he is not seeking attention. He has been GIVEN attention because of the Saints reaction and the media spreading the story.

As an accounting major I took all of those business courses, as well as economics, statistics and business law. In none of those courses is it taught that the customer is always right. To the contrary, the customer is in the wrong a great percentage of the time when complaints are levied. Legally the business isn't always required to give in. Economically, however, is the reason why some customers get their way even when they have not been wronged. If the cost associated to fight the claim outweighs the cost of giving in then "the customer is deemed being right" economically.

And you are wrong about the majority. The seats are being filled because the majority do not feel the protests are disturbing them enough to keep their butts out of the seats. THAT is a fact.

And, yes, he IS seeking attention. You are naive if you think he didn't know that filling that suit was going to hit the media in a huge manner. As a businessman he knew exactly what he was doing.

saintfan · 12-13-2017, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries?

and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value.
Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club.

This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause.

I know some folks with season tix to the Texans games who were so offended they stopped going. They sold the tix for profit and now they're out, having sworn off the NFL forever.

Sell them and get on with your life man. Jeesh. Why is everyone so litigious these days?

Never mind...I know why, but that's a conversation for a different forum.

12-13-2017, 05:44 PM	#1
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by homerj07 NO... its not. And please don't pull the "As a Christian" - I am too. IF it wasn't Christian prayer if it was something Buddhist or Hindu or whatever, would you still be ok with it? If the argument is "a disrruption of the entertainment value" then the religion is the same thing. Did you read my post? Did I not just say that while I have problems with the various religions around the world, I am not offended by their praying? I have seen it, and it did not affect me in the least. It would help you to understand my point if you simply go back and read through my entire post. It's not very long. I also asked you, who is preaching to you? When a player says a prayer, is that in your face? Is it directed at anyone in particular? It is not a protest, and it is not done as a disruption. And what do you mean "don't pull" the as a Christian statement? What exactly am I pulling by simply stating my faith? And if you are, as you say, also a Christian, then why are you talking about not wanting to be preached to? What exactly is it that you stand for, then?
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-13-2017, 06:27 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by burningmetal Who is preaching to you? You want to know what the differences between the two things you mentioned are? One is a private matter that isn't stated in protest, and the other is something that entire teams are doing, and it has often been done in the middle of our National Anthem. You use the word religion, but there are a lot of different beliefs. As a Christian myself, I have a lot of problems with "religions" that pop up around the world. But if I see someone praying during a game, and I know he isn't a Christian, I am not offended. I would wish that the person were not praying to some pagan "god", or whatever else, but I believe in his right to have his religious freedom. It isn't something that is in your face, and making a political statement. Major difference. Major difference to you. I respect that. But you are obviously in the minority.

12-13-2017, 06:41 PM	#3
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Major difference to you. I respect that. But you are obviously in the minority. Am I? Show me your proof. How many people are complaining about prayer? It's something that people might disagree with, depending on their beliefs, or lack thereof, but it isn't something that causes a stir. There would be a big fire storm, as with the protests, if a majority of people were offended by it. It's a private act. It might be in public, but it's not being done at an inappropriate time, and it's not directed at any "cause". So comparing that with the protests makes no sense. I don't like the way players bleach their hair and act like they won the super bowl every time they make a big hit after giving up a 15 yard run, but I don't feel disrespected by it, nor do I feel it is championing a false narrative.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-13-2017, 07:30 AM	#4
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Saints fans sues over protests If we doesn't want them ill gladly take them. I've been on that waiting list for seven years now

12-13-2017, 07:47 AM	#5
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Saints fans sues over protests They should give him his money back and tell him and his family that he is banned from all future Saints game. shawnkytonk likes this.

12-13-2017, 08:48 AM	#6
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by ScottF They should give him his money back and tell him and his family that he is banned from all future Saints game. You're right, they SHOULD do that. Then maybe it will anger more fans and let this organization get an early taste of what the future will be like for them, with no fan support. You can dislike people like this guy, or me, all you want for our stance on the protests, but just know that your opinion is not any more valid than anyone else's. And when the majority speaks, their voices will be heard, and their affects will be felt. If the Saints and the rest of the NFL are too bull headed to see that, and make things right, instead of acting like school ground bullies with their fans, then they will get precisely what they deserve. jnormand and neugey like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-13-2017, 12:40 PM	#7
ScottF 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 6,324	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by burningmetal You're right, they SHOULD do that. Then maybe it will anger more fans and let this organization get an early taste of what the future will be like for them, with no fan support. You can dislike people like this guy, or me, all you want for our stance on the protests, but just know that your opinion is not any more valid than anyone else's. And when the majority speaks, their voices will be heard, and their affects will be felt. If the Saints and the rest of the NFL are too bull headed to see that, and make things right, instead of acting like school ground bullies with their fans, then they will get precisely what they deserve. Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries? and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value. Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club. This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause. saintfan likes this.

12-13-2017, 12:53 PM	#8
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by ScottF Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries? and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value. Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club. This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause. Fans absolutely get to choose what they approve of. Similar to how fans would react if the P.A. announcer got on the mic and started insulting fans, people have a right to make complaints about things that are particularly offensive to them. Fans pay the money, not the players. The players get paid because of the fans. Business 101: The customer is always right. Does that mean that every grievance is legitimate? No. But this man is not in the minority. And you are wrong about the majority. The negative feedback from the protests have far outweighed the positive. Not everyone has chosen to boycott, and of course that was to be expected. The more the NFL defies the wishes of it's audience, however, that will change quickly. Apparently you haven't noticed that in many places the attendance is down, and the TV ratings have been way down, all year. That is no coincidence for a league you believe is untouchable. Lastly, he is not seeking attention. He has been GIVEN attention because of the Saints reaction and the media spreading the story. SmashMouth likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

12-13-2017, 02:34 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by burningmetal Fans absolutely get to choose what they approve of. Similar to how fans would react if the P.A. announcer got on the mic and started insulting fans, people have a right to make complaints about things that are particularly offensive to them. Fans pay the money, not the players. The players get paid because of the fans. Business 101: The customer is always right. Does that mean that every grievance is legitimate? No. But this man is not in the minority. And you are wrong about the majority. The negative feedback from the protests have far outweighed the positive. Not everyone has chosen to boycott, and of course that was to be expected. The more the NFL defies the wishes of it's audience, however, that will change quickly. Apparently you haven't noticed that in many places the attendance is down, and the TV ratings have been way down, all year. That is no coincidence for a league you believe is untouchable. Lastly, he is not seeking attention. He has been GIVEN attention because of the Saints reaction and the media spreading the story. As an accounting major I took all of those business courses, as well as economics, statistics and business law. In none of those courses is it taught that the customer is always right. To the contrary, the customer is in the wrong a great percentage of the time when complaints are levied. Legally the business isn't always required to give in. Economically, however, is the reason why some customers get their way even when they have not been wronged. If the cost associated to fight the claim outweighs the cost of giving in then "the customer is deemed being right" economically. And you are wrong about the majority. The seats are being filled because the majority do not feel the protests are disturbing them enough to keep their butts out of the seats. THAT is a fact. And, yes, he IS seeking attention. You are naive if you think he didn't know that filling that suit was going to hit the media in a huge manner. As a businessman he knew exactly what he was doing. xan likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-13-2017, 02:08 PM	#10
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Saints fans sues over protests Originally Posted by ScottF Fans don't get to pick and choose what aspects of a team they approve of. If you don't like Kamara's hair, or Brees' chants, or Ingram's dancing, it is your right to stay home. Can we sue over performance as well? how about injuries? and, the majority is speaking: the stands are full. There are a couple hundred tickets available for Sunday, all at of above face value. Like many have said, sell the tickets or donate them to NOLA Boys & Girls Club. This isn't about my opinion or anyone else's on the protests; it's about one fan seeking attention for his cause. I know some folks with season tix to the Texans games who were so offended they stopped going. They sold the tix for profit and now they're out, having sworn off the NFL forever. Sell them and get on with your life man. Jeesh. Why is everyone so litigious these days? Never mind...I know why, but that's a conversation for a different forum. neugey, ScottF, AsylumGuido and 1 others like this.

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