WhoDat

So wait until the 15th to sign him Whodi. That\'s not a problem bud.

Grant is our best player on D? Maybe. That\'s the next logical choice. McKenzie seems to be up there too, if he can keep his play up. But the point is - how many guys of Howard\'s ability do we have on D? Very few. So you\'re willing to give up a proven performer for a draft pick?????

So you think that the Saints have used their draft picks intelligently the last three or four years? What happens when the Saints get such a great deal on Howard that they\'re in the position to pick DJ, but instead pick the 6 best DT out of Georgia or Ohio State instead? Then it will really be worth it, right?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintswhodi

Finally, I agree with you on something on this whole Howard deal. There is NO guarantee this FO will pick the right player. Absolutely none. And if they blow it, they will only look like the fools we already knew they were right? I mean, they did get Will smith and Watson last year, and Colby. So true, my thoughts are coming with a bit of hope they finally have a small idea of what they are doing. But I agree with this FO, it\'s a risk.

Actually, it is a problem, cause our draft picks we are unable to sign will miss valuable mini camps and training sessions. Then after we sign Howard on the 15th, who\'s to say we get the picks signed right away? We could be into pre-season games before they can see some practice. How much value will theyhave for next year then no matter who we draft.

Well, in Grant and Will Smith, we have two at the position Howard plays. And I don\'t recall Grant being injured or will getting injured last year. So we are pretty well covered should we not have Howard and his big salary to occasionally play. The plays they were allon the field were obvious passing downs. Howard Green was in on running downs. So we give Howard a big deal to rotate at DE and come in on obvious passing downs as a DT, with a team that can\'t stop the run? Kinda decreases his value and the starters contract he wants huh?

LKelley67

yeah whodi, the draftees can catch up later like henderson last year. ya don\'t think we can get by with no franchise tag for 6 years?

:bandhead:

WhoDat

Glad we finally agree on something.

I don\'t believe that the Saints could not sign their draft picks. I am no cap specialist - but there are two scenarios in which I see each as a possibility. First, do the Saints have to be under the cap at all times? I thought there is some date by which they have to get under the cap. Is it possible for them to be over the cap at this point or has that day passed?

Second - The New Orleans Saints and first round draft pick [blank] have agreed in principle on a deal worth blank for blank years. Player will report to camp, but the deal will not be officially signed until July 15th, when the Saints can resign Darren Howard to a long-term deal without losing their Franchise Tag....


As for Grant and Smith, that neither of them got hurt last year is irrelevant. Both are young - and while they don\'t have histories of injury, that stuff can happen at any time in the NFL. Depth is insurance. Darren Howard played significant time last year and was a top contributor. I just don\'t see giving him away unless the price is right. He is good against the run at his position and also from the inside. He can rush the passer from anywhere. He is dedicated and a team player. Those kind fo guys aren\'t easy to find. Simply b/c the Saints have other need is no reason to get rid of a good player. The Saints probably have bigger needs at WR, both T positions, QB, TE, but that didn\'t stop them from adding depth at RB - which wasn\'t a bad move.

Trading Darren Howard is not the key to success for the Saints in this draft or the 2005 season. Having him on the team not only can, but is very likely to be a big help on defense. If we can sign him for under $2 million in cap space - I really don\'t see the problem. If a great deal comes along, fine, take it. If not, what\'s the problem? $9 million in cap space isn\'t enough to sign draft picks (3 now plus Howard\'s 6 in freed up space from 8 to 2)???

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

saintswhodi

Here is the problem, what do you think is giving him away? Is a first round pick enough? Or do you want a pro bowl player even though Howard has never been in the pro bowl? What is giving him away? We drafted him in the 2nd round, he has played well, but not anything Grant and Smith can\'t do. And whitehead is a beast in the rotation. So with Grant, Smith, whitehead, Young, sullivan, Bryant and Leisle we don\'t already have enough depth? So tell me Who, what would be fair compensation to you? The number one pick? a top 10 pick? What? To me, trading Howard, a player who has never been to the pro bowl, for a player that has is unrealistic. So what\'s the right number who?

LKelley67

1. No capologist either but no team CAN go over the Salary Cap. Note that every contract must go through the NFL League Office before the deal can be made official. Presumably, one of the things the league must do at this time is determine whether or not the contract would violate the NFL\'s Salary Cap. If the deal does violate the cap, then the NFL will reject it.

There have been instances in which a team has managed to sneak a cap evading contract by the league. Upon further review, the violations were caught by the league and the respective teams were penalized. Penalties include fines and/or forfeiture of draft picks. In recent history both the Pittsburgh Steelers and San Francisco 49ers have been penalized draft picks, while the 49ers\' front office personnel (Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark) were also fined.

2. No player is going to report with no contract. i dunno if he even could legally. One injury and he is done with the team having no obligation to him.

3. The signing bonus is prorated into the cap obligation as well. so, say 2mil a yr + 2+mil (14 mil s.b./6 yrs)= 4+mil is still 5% of the team payroll for a 3rd DE.

What about no franchise tag for 6 years? This is one of the most useful tools have for keeping players.

saintswhodi

Nice backup LKelley. I don\'t know how much more explaining of how untenable the situation is when it comes to keeping Howard. It can\'t be done without grave consequences. I also want to point out Pat Surtain, a pro bowl corner and definite one of the top 5 in the league at his position, was just traded for a 2nd round pick, only. If we get a first for Howard, I think we better jump on it immediately.

[Edited on 22/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

LKelley67

i think this back-up plan is mostly just more front office posturing to get the best trade deal. still, these guys scare me. they could do it. like last year, i think if they would have thrown in o\'sullivan from the start they would have gotten mckenzie before the season started. no telling what diff my have come from that. same thing here, i hope they don\'t outsmart everyone else to get themselves in that corner.