Howad will be a Saint.
 

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ESPNSports/story?id=699399

The Saints found that same frustration in their Darren Howard negotiations. Howard's agent, Gary Wichard, worked out a contract agreement with the Cowboys in the event a trade could be worked out. The Saints wanted a second-round pick and linebacker Dat Nguyen. Bill Parcells didn't want to give up Nguyen. Owner Jerry Jones liked that second-round pick. Once again, no trade.

"There was an abundance of pass-rushers in the draft," Wichard said. "You also have the problems of more teams switching between the 3-4 and the 4-3. In Dallas' case, they never made it clear what defense they were going to be."

The availability of having Ware, Shawne Merriman, David Pollack and James available after the 10th pick — Dallas held the 11th and 20th picks — allowed the Cowboys to keep their options open. They left with Ware as an outside linebacker in a 4-3 defense and Marcus Spears, an ideal end in a 3-4.


Howard left Saturday knowing he was going to be a Saint.

"Now, we are going to keep Darren," Loomis said. "We couldn't get a firm offer out of Dallas. No other teams said they would do this or that to get a trade done, and he's too good a player to give away for less value. We'll keep him."

Howad will be a Saint.
 

This may have been posted already. Not sure. Apologies if it has.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Whodi???? Oh, Whodi??? LOL :)

Unaware and uniformed of how the NFL works huh? :)

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Awe man, dammm!
We are forced to keep this stud D-linemen for the whole year?
We are truly cursed. :casstet:

He will now sign a long term contract. The injury cloud hovers over him. If he gets injured again this year his value will plummet. He and his agent both know it too. It is to his advantage to work out a contract/trade deal. Its prbaby the only area where a bean copunter like Loomis excells. He will work the financials out to benefit us.

Its a win-win for us.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

I agree completely Danno. Tell it to Whodi. :)

Hehehe... he\'s gonna be pissed. Watch out guys, Whodi\'s head may actually start spinning. He\'ll have some venom for me I\'m sure. :)

Howad will be a Saint.
 

First, I don\'t see any reason to believe anything our FO says about the draft and/or trades right now. They could just be trying to give the impression that we don\'t NEED to trade Howard to keep his value up.

Second, here is my view on the Howard situation from another post:
There is a loss to keep Howard to us: if he signs a long term agreement, as I understand it, we cannot use our franchise tag until his contract expires (that was the point of that Wednesday deadline way back when).

Further, to keep him, he\'ll still have to renegotiate his contract to a cap-friendly number. Sure that can be done, but it is by no means a done deal.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Thanks for being the voice of reason Kool. But WhoDat is the same guy who probably believes Ricky Williams will be starting for Miami next year even though they just drafted THE stud RB of the draft. I stand by my guns, Howard will be traded. Can someone explain to WhoDat that the trade deadline is not until November? I doubt he will understand though. Who, how and when did we get McKenzie again? :o

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Who says he will sign a long term contract??? Because of one erroneous rumor that has been circulated on here????? HMMMMM

Think about it...if you\'re a Darren Howard and you have $7.8 mil coming to you this year, why would you want to sign a long term deal. IF he does sign for a low cap number I think it\'s outstanding, but I don\'t see it happening. If I were him, I wouldn\'t do it. Do you think that desire just disappeared into thin air??? You don\'t think he still wants to go to Dallas. Do you think that all of the posturing and what not up to Draft day will just be forgotten??? There is still a place for him in Dallas, as DeMarcus Ware is projected to be a LB. This is far from over. He still needs to be moved. His salary cap number may or may not have implications towards rookie signing, but it definitely has implications towards signing rookie free agents and free agents during the season, due to unseen injuries and what not.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Watch it GT. WhoDat will have your head for saying Howard will be traded. Don\'t you know in his world there is no such thing as a salary cap and we can just sign and keep anbody we want? It\'s wonderful. We kept ourselves out of the CBA(lucky for us) so there is no such thing as a cap for only one team, the New Orleans Saints. We are free to move and operate unlike any other team in the NFL cause of this enormously fortunate arrangement. No matter the cost, we can keep \'em all. Let\'s hear it for the Saints for being the only team to be able to operate under this system. WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :casstet:

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Whodi - it\'s clear by your reaction that you haven\'t been here long enough. I\'ve calmed down a lot in the past year or so, but you\'re pushing it.


Bottom line: so far I\'ve been right about Howard and you\'ve been wrong. Period.


Now, he may well get traded, I fully acknowledge that. I\'m just joking around with you b/c you were so adamant about us trading him. You went so far as to say that we could not sign our draft picks unless we trade Howard - which, by the way, is ridiculous and I\'ll be willing to bet you any amount of money that we can, and realistically, may do just that.

But, to suggest that I don\'t understand the salary cap or free agency simply b/c I disagree is childish. Yeah, I\'m poking at you, but I could say the same things that you are saying, could I not?

Looks like Whodi has proven once again that he doesn\'t understand the cap - I thought there was NO WAY that we could sign our draft picks without dumping Howard. I thought the season was over if we didn\'t get that extra second round pick for Howard - didn\'t I tell you that they would waste their second rounder again? Sure seems like Whodi knows nothing about football.

Pretty ridiculous huh? Think about it next time. You want to raz me about something I was wrong about, go ahead. You want to suggest that I don\'t understand football - be prepared for the response.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

How have I been wrong? I said before the draft he would prob still be on our team after the draft, and it wouldn\'t surprise me. I guess since he is still on our team, I could be wrong somehow. :o


Do you have an article to show that we have signed any draft picks, or where anyone in the NFL has signed any draft picks? SO because we drafted them that means they are signed? I guess I rest my case. :o

So I guess if you want to \"raz\" me, be prepared for my response.

[Edited on 25/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

Howad will be a Saint.
 

OK Whodi

Name the price. You pick it.


My bet is that the Saints CAN sign all of their draft picks and keep Howard.

If you want, we can even parlay that with a bet that the WILL sign all of their draft picks and sign Howard - adjusted b the probability that they actually keep Howard.


You said there was NO WAY that the Saints could keep Howard and sign their draft picks. I\'m betting you right now that you\'re wrong. Wanna put your money where your mouth is?

Howad will be a Saint.
 

I wasn\'t the only one who said it, and the complete line to what I said was we can not keep Howard, renegotiate Deuce, LeCHarles and MM, AND sign all our draft picks. You picked one part of it and wanna make a bet on it. So do you wanna bet we can\'t keep Howard, sign our picks and renegotiate those deals since that is actually what I said and have been saying for months?

Howad will be a Saint.
 

I\'ve been saying the samething WhoDat is saying.

As I told JKool, the cap can be manipulated in several ways. Now, if you\'re in terrible cap shape (like the Titans) there\'s little hope. You\'re going to have to release some good players.

But the Saints aren\'t in dire cap shape. Joe Horn\'s new contract is going to lower our cap.

Signing Darren Howard to a new contract lowers our cap. And there are several more ways the Saints can get creative with our salary cap.

Kept up with the NFL long? ;) LMAO!! :D

[Edited on 25/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Wow. Just wow. Do you know why Joe Horn\'s contract dropped our cap number? Cause we put some ridiculous firgures at the end he will never see. Joe is 33. Howard is what, 28? We can\'t do that with his contract cause he WILL be around to see those ridiculous numbers. I guess it\'s worth it for a guy who thinks we can win the Superbowl every year. Mortgage the future to get an injury proned player who puts up 11 sacks(wow Grant had 10.5) to stay with the team. Aye carumba. I wonder why you bother speaking up sometimes. :casstet:

Howad will be a Saint.
 

I\'m going to turn you back over to WhoDat. Just thought I\'d drop in and say hi ... ;)

Howad will be a Saint.
 

So u won\'t be fighting this battle alone whodi.....

This situation is far from over. WhoDat I will take you up on that bet that we will sign all of our draft picks and sign Howard to a long term deal. I still have no doubt that he will be traded. He wants to be in Dallas, but I think he would go to Philly too. He\'s expressed desire to want to play elsewhere. Does this sound like someone that wants to sign long term??? Weirder things have happened, but it\'s unlikely that he\'ll be willing to sign longterm, and at a deal that is palatable to the Saints cap situaiton. Think....he wants a contract similar to what Wistrom wanted. That hasn\'t changed. Do you think we can afford that, and still have adequate room to sign FAs should we encounter injuries throughout the year??? Loomis, being a cap guy, will try his hardest to move Howard. It\'s just that one of the major opportunities to do so(the draft)has passed. Wait until a DE goes down for the year, or Dallas or Philly finds out that their DE predicament won\'t work out. Things will change quickly.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

I think there\'s a GOOD chance Howard will get traded before the season starts.

But that has nothing to do with what I was trying to explain.

The Saints can keep Howard this year and still sign all of our draft picks and they won\'t have to release any players either.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Yeah but will we have room to make a quality FA signing if players get injured, as often happens in the NFL??? Probably not.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

So if we sign Howard to a long-term deal (say 6 years) that gets bad for us in say year 4, we HAVE to keep him and pay him huh? Now who doesn\'t understand how the cap works? Think AB will be around next season if McPherson shows he can play a little? Brooks\' cap number gets big starting this season and gets real big next year. So the Saints will cut him if they have other options. See Whodi, in the NFL, you can avoid paying a player by cutting him. You understand how that works. Contracts are not guaranteed, you see...

I\'m glad that you bother talking though, it\'s very informative.


This is a second warning to you. Saying things like, I don\'t know why you even bother talking is getting close to the line. Simply b/c a person disagrees with you does not mean that he is less informed. I am quite sure that the people disagreeing with you on this issue are just as intelligent and up-to-date on the NFL and Saints as you are. To suggest that they are not reflects more poorly on you than it does on them.

[Edited on 25/4/2005 by WhoDat]

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Hold up WhoDat. You sit here and \"raz\" ME in not one, but 3 or 4 threads when others, including JKool, LKelley, and GoldenTomb, and more who I can\'t recall have said the EXACT same things as I am and you wanna warn me about getting close to a line? Pot..............kettle. And I have ignored most of your razzing, but then you start an entire thread to do it and you warn me? Wow dude. That\'s low. So when WhoDat\'s argument is lacking, he pulls out his moderator card, when he is going out of his way to antagonize one member. That\'s pretty low WhoDat. There is no needs for us to speak again since you hold all the cards and can do as you feel. Go into 3 or 4 more threads and create another to continue to \"raz\" me if you must. I see I am nearing a \"line.\"

Howad will be a Saint.
 

And to top it off, statements like this can slide from Gumbo cause he is agreeing with you? This is rich.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Okay ... let\'s calm down guys.

I know saintwhodi is only joking around with me. No biggie. At least I don\'t think you mean any harm, saintwhodi. In any event, I took it as joking around.

And, saintwhodi, I think WhoDat thought you were being serious with some of your comments. It\'s hard to tell sometimes.

Also, I\'ve been reading what WhoDat has said to you. And I\'ve seen him call you out on some of your opinions. I have not seen WhoDat insult you, though. He\'s just playin\' around with you.

Whatever has happened here ... BOTH of you are good guys and I wouldn\'t let this thing get personal. It\'s a message baord and it\'s not that big of a deal.

IMO, the best thing to do is just chill out for a while and things will be ok.

I love both of you guys ...
:D

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Dude - I started a thread to joke around with you. I didn\'t suggest that you knew nothing about football. I was messing with you. Sorry you took it so personally.

One other thing - me being a moderator has nothing to do with it. I wasn\'t threatening to use my \"power,\" though I see now how you could have taken it that way. Ask Billy about it - he\'s gotten those warnings from me before.

Look man - you\'re clearly ticked. I was just trying to play around with you. Just understand that disagreement doesn\'t mean that one person is an idiot - b/c it sure seems to me that any time someone disagrees with you, that\'s what you suggest.

I only suggest that when I\'m talking to Billy!!! LOL. But then, Billy and I have a history that allows that - he thinks I\'m an agenda-mongerin\' nitwit too! :) Can you feel the love?

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Cool off guys. This ain\'t for the championship.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Aw shut up you old fart!!! :D

LOL - what\'s up Joe? Haven\'t heard you chime in on the draft.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

can someone explain the math of how to keep howard and sign the draft picks? i hear \"there are ways\" but i do not see any pointed out.

we are approximately 2mil under the cap now.

the contract previously mentioed for howard was something like 2+mil the first 2 years with a 6-7mil signing bonus the first 2 yrs. the bonus prorated equals 2-3mil added to the cap per year. (all of it accelerated if he is cut or traded). so, 4-5 mil hit to the cap. that means him signing adds 2-3mil in cap room. that is 4-5mil then. now sign all the draft picks, and redo\'s for bentley, mckenzie, horn... how?

does anyone really think the team would give up the use of the franchise tag either? that is one of the strongest weapons f.o.\'s have to combat the cap and free agent problems.

i\'m not one much for getting in these pissin n moanin matches of i said this, nah-nah-nah-nah-nah and was right hahahahaha. you said this, what a dummy. to see thread titles pointed at individual members may be funny to some but i think it only creates dissension (perhaps even more so when by mods). why worry about and spend so much effort on calling out particular members? we are all passionate fans to follow this friggin beleaguered franchise. we all want success. there shouldn\'t be a problem if we have different viewpoints on how we might think that will best be accomplished. i am depressed that they wouldn\'t take #31 for howard. i would have rather dj in the first and khalif barnes in the second. or at least if jammal brown, then grab kevin burnett. a free safety??? what is the plan? but as much as it made my head spin this weekend i hope to be proven wrong. you may think chase lyman was a brilliant pick even if i don\'t (and i predicted they would choose him LOL). who cares? i\'ll say what i think, whether praise for a mac in the 5th or disgust that they make draft picks like the team plays- erratically. don\'t dis me for my opinion though whether it is right or wrong, whether this front office does anything like that or not. if i am right, big sh!t, it\'s only an outlet for extreme fans.

okay, back to the recovery ward

Howad will be a Saint.
 

well kelly, until the fo starts cutting and or trading and or reworking contracts i really don\'t think anyone including the fo knows (although i\'m sure they have ideas) it\'s all scenerios right now, would\'nt you say? smitty

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Thanks Kelley. As always, finger on the pulse.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

oh yeah, i just would like to hear some potential scenarios that are feasible. i just want to understand how cuz my little mind cannot see it.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Thanks LK.

I was reading this and I thought that I was going to have to go through the \"we can\'t keep Howard\" thing again. Maybe among the four or so of us who think this we\'ll say it enough times?

I know that you\'re having trouble with our draft. I think Bullocks is going to play Right or Left Safety, not Strong or Free. That makes a difference.

I also posted an article on draft strategies that made me start to rethink our draft. I\'m going to dig it up and bump it for you - let me know what you think afterward.

Cheers.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Yall can say what you want to (as it makes no difference to me)

But, JKool and saintwhodi have argued several times that keeping Howard was going to prevent us from signing draft picks and extending exsisting contracts.

All of that was said without providing sufficient information, IMHO.

I saw the Falcons sign Ed Hartwell when they were only 1-million under the cap. How did they do that?

I see teams constantly signing big name free-agents when it appears there\'s no way they can do it.

It\'s quite apparant to me that if a team isn\'t in horrible cap shape then it\'s very workable to keep a player for ONE year.



[Edited on 25/4/2005 by GumboBC]

Howad will be a Saint.
 

nor does my teeny one..........
but you know it will happen.................smitty

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Another point which I , myself think holds a ton of relevance is..

If the Saints come out of the gate weak..and loose 4 out of the first 6 or something like that..I really think Howard will be gone from here...It would make no sense to pay him so much anymore..and the team would be entering yet another rebuilding stage..although it will be after the season is over...the money will have to come from somewhere...

However..if the Saints can manage at the very least..3 wins out of the first 6..it is kinda up in the air...many teams will want Howard, due to injury to thier roster..and some will just want a boost to get them stronger up front...and IF we come out poor/average..it wouldn\'t suprise me to see Howard get traded in the early weeks...

Finally..IF we come out of the gate running..and just wipe the floor with the blood of our enemies..Howard will stay..for at least this entire season...If it ain\'t broke..don\'t fix it...

Regardless of how it goes..I\'m almost positive that Howard\'s time is coming to an end in New Orleans..He has been a pretty good DE...and I will be sad to see him go..but..Money talks..and this is a buisness foremost..

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Dman shadow where you been? Missed ya bro. Good to have you back. Nice points, but I think Howard will be gone before the season starts if we can get a decent player in return. Anywho, welcome back bud.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Ok during the draft the cowboys where stated as going in the 3-4. Parcells was quoted as saying pass rushers our easier to find in a 3-4. It was also stated that the Cowboys never used a 3-4 defense in the history of the franchise. I don\'t think he stated why he thinks pass rushers our easier to find in the 3-4 but yes cowboys our going to the 3-4.

Howad will be a Saint.
 

the cowboys like the rest of the league has drafted rookies.
while everyone hopes their draft picks will be immediate starters, they won\'t..........and while they look better for the future, this still is the present and could play a role yet.............smitty

Howad will be a Saint.
 

And the avatar lives on.... :hump:

Oh, and love to all my *****\'s!

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Lkelly67

As to the Math of how signing Howard long term will help sign the Rookies and give us more cap room is simple.......

Since Howard is a Franchise Tagged Player all of his 6.7 Mil count this year right now!!!!!!!!!!

And If his contract was long term they could spread the hit out, posibly lowering the cap this year by 3.7 mil or more.........

This may not Be enough For Deuce though and, the Problem will still remain, On a perfect team most of the players with high cap numbers would renegotiate, and take pay cuts for the Benifit of the Team to get to the Superbowl........... :salute:

IE: New England Patriots, Winners of (as you need to hear it again) 3 of the last four Superbowls!!!!!!!!!!!

Howad will be a Saint.
 

Sure, if Howard renegotiates that will help us. If he doesn\'t, his 7.8 mil tender cost will leave us with only 1 mil in cap space (as reported on several sites, and links were given a week ago when we had this discussion the first time). That is not enough to sign our rookies, which cost roughly 3.8 mil each year. (I don\'t see as how that isn\'t enough info Billy.)

If Howard brings his cap number down around 4 mil, we should be able to sign our rookies. If he brings it down around 2.5 mil, we should be able to renegotiate Bentley, which will avoid significant problems until next year.

Whether Howard will renegotiate is a pretty darned big IF right now. I haven\'t seen anything other than one unsubstantiated rumor that he may renegotiate.