Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl

natedogg02 · 04-26-2005, 02:33 AM

Not as bad as D Stallworth and the others dropping 3 or 4 cruitial passes per game.

Zulu--King · 04-26-2005, 03:29 AM

I agree with what you\'re saying, Nate. Problem is we\'re in a small market. Maybe Favre retiring, and AB putting up serious numbers wil help his bid. Going deep into the playoffs, also.

I just don\'t see AB leap-frogging the other QBs I\'ve mentioned into the Pro Bowl, no matter what he does.

4saintspirit · 04-26-2005, 07:32 AM

Dont forget about the Defense sucking all year and us not being able to run the ball cause were down by 30 points. This leads to AB throwing 40 to 60 times a game, allowing the other teams Defense to pin there ears back. And our O-line sucking did\'nt help either.
If the O-line gives him time then AB can pick a Defense apart

That would explain some things but what about our pathetic attempts to score in the first quarter --

LKelley67 · 04-26-2005, 09:27 AM

excellent point yas on pocket presence. i see regression in this aspect. when he first came on he had elusiveness in the pocket (whether much rush or little) and could put a little scare into other teams by having the long ball or running. these two things have definitely declined-
+40 yd completions
\'01- 13
\'02- 12
\'03- 7
\'04- 5
rushing yds/avg./1st downs rushing
\'01- 358/4.5/24
\'02- 253/4.1/21
\'03- 175/3.2/20
\'04- 173/3.0/14
steady on the fumbles tho-
\'01- 13
\'02- 11
\'03- 14
\'04- 13

poor foot work and holding the ball too long (cuz ya cannot read defenses well enough) will lower the interception rate and increase the number of sacks whether the line sucks or is all-pro.

as far as the line, if mayberry has some gas left and bentley settles in then guard to guard should be fine. brown looks like he will be a road grader but will have some rookie learning curve to overcome. There are no Baylors on NFL schedules. Gandy got very old last year it seemed. He is 34 and has only missed one start in the past ten years. That is a lot of miles. We can only hope to get one more season out of him. If either of them goes down? That is scary. Folau didn\'t even appear serviceable when in there. Stinchcomb cannot stay on the active roster. It seems most say his future is at guard, if there is one.

Kudos for the imagination to translate this line to the probowl for AB though.

Euphoria · 04-26-2005, 10:18 AM

We don\'t need brooks to be Vick. Brooks is more dangerous passing the ball... with the recievers and Deuce... sure an occasional scramble for a first down great... but give him much more time frees up recievers and let him be the gun-slinger that he is. Not only by improving the OL will benefit the passing game but also help Deuce and ball control equals less time your D will be on the field.

LKelley67 · 04-26-2005, 10:31 AM

i am not suggesting vick-likeness. he never has been that (700-900 yds, 7ypc). but having some scrambling threat as an aspect of his game did add a lot to the offense overall. yds rushing has decreased to less than half of \'01 and rushing 1st downs 24 to 14... significant loss!

if we say the o-line has been deteriorating it seems he would have been on the run more. i think it has been more a conscious decision to not use that ability as much. he has stated as much hasn\'t he?

WhoDat · 04-26-2005, 11:05 AM

Not as bad as D Stallworth and the others dropping 3 or 4 cruitial passes per game.

I\'m not sure I get this argument.

While I won\'t argue that our WRs don\'t have the best hands, and could all improve in the hands department, how is this the reason for AB\'s inconsistent play???

For starters, our WRs are average to just above average in the drop category. We are far from leading the league. The number of drop experienced by AB\'s WRs when compared to the number of AB\'s attempts place the team\'s numbers in the middle of the pack. In other words, you can\'t say the Roethsliberger\'s WRs only dropped half the passes that AB\'s did, but AB thre twice as many passes.

Second, this ignores other factors too. I will not argue for a second that our WRs dropped some very catchable balls. They also caught some very uncatchable balls. That counts for Brooks, right? I\'m amazed some times to see Pathon and Stallworth continue to sell out into monster hits after AB leads them directly into a safety. That doesn\'t count for anything?

Finally, just play the numbers game.

Let\'s say our WRs drop 5 balls in a game, and catch 15. That means that they caught 75% of the catchable balls and dropped 25%. AB misses on 40%-50% of his passes. I guarantee AB throws 5 terrible passes a game. Is that irrelevant?

Also, how often did our WRs fumble on the one yard line? How often did the try to lateral while being tackled and toss the ball into a CB\'s hands?

People like to talk about \"big\" drops. The one most pointed to is the Tampa Bay game of two years ago by Joe Horn that would have been a TD. Joe lost the game!!! Nevermind the fact that AB FUMBLED on the next play in field goal range and Tampa returned it into Saints territory. Nevermind that Horn, after being hobbled when selling out for a poor AB pass, still managed to sky on bad knees to make two amazing catches in the Carolina game that year, which basically single-handedly won the game for us.

The point of all this: AB\'s WRs DO NOT hurt him more than they help him. Further, they are nowhere near handless mutants that some people make them out to be.

Joe Horn can manage to go to the Pro Bowl with an inconsistent QB, bad running game, and no help from other WRs. AB cannot. Why does AB deserve a pass? Doesn\'t that just make Horn even more impressive then? If so, how can you call AB\'s WRs crap if Horn is such a stud?

papz · 04-26-2005, 11:09 AM

Clearly I see things much different than most.

That is the understatement of the year... anyways...

Every year Brooks has been here we have had a good offensive line except for last year. And out of all those years Brooks has only been to a ProBowl once as an ALTERNATE. What will be the exception this year? Can you honestly say he\'ll go before McNabb, Favre, Vick, Jake, Matt, etc...? I think not.

The problem is ... not many fans want to blame an offensive line.

I see people in this forum complain about pass rushers always in the back field all the time. :yes:

Nonetheless I am a Saints fan as are the rest of us. Who wouldn\'t want him to make it to the ProBowl and prove lots of people wrong? This will be a make or break year for him... there are no more excuses. All the weapons are there for him now and our line is as good as the previous years prior to the last one. I honestly hope he does well because we are tired of 8-8 playoff-less seasons.

Hell if the RedSoxs can win a pennant... why can\'t we? :P

baronm · 04-26-2005, 11:31 AM

I would be wrong if I said the line took care of business last year, but you are oversimplifying the equation here.

Brooks tends to feel the pressure before it gets there. (Not bashing him...this could be a product of the pressure being pretty consistent.)

You are foregetting about the Brooks shuffle where he spins around (only to lose any speed he had going his way) and runs INTO the pressure. Brooks does not have a very good pocket presence and if you argue against that, you are just not allowing yourself to be objective.

If you can find a copy of the Tampa game at Tampa, watch it all the way through objectively. Brooks was horrible in that game and he created opportunities for the D to make sacks. He ran backwards and held the ball too long. I\'m not saying the line is blameless, but the QB has to realize the realities of his situation and adjust.

I would love to see video of him stepping into a throw in the face of pressure....you just won\'t see it happen. Oh, and on 3 step drops, the line isn\'t much of a factor unless there is a crazy blitz. Ab routinely turns 3 step drops into 6 step drops with a loopty loo, do si do get sacked or sky one over the bench. That, my friend, is a man not executing the pass play.

I gave AB the benefit of the doubt for 3 years and the \'04 season did it for me. I\'m over his game. I used to overlook games like the Cincy game where he threw a bonehead pick in the enzone or the play-in game against carolina in \'02 where the offense shut down every time they crossed the 50.

I\'m done with AB. I don\'t think his head is in the right place and I think he is beyond reproach among this staff. I was glad to see Mike go, but disappointed to see another guy put in who has been in AB\'s ear all along.

If AB is better this year, the line may be a factor. I don\'t disagree with that. However, I think Adrian will be a bigger factor because Brooks tends to bask in his own perceived greatness. AB might look at this guy and see a younger and possibly hungrier version of himself. He has grown comfy and complacent. He can no longer say \"I\'m long, lean and athletic, with a cannon arm\". There\'s another guy who can make the same claim now. He\'s gonna have to show some consistency or he can get on gettin on to another city who will boo him even more.

I don\'t dislike AB. There are certainly much bigger Aholes in the league. But...you cannot deny that this team has missed some chances because of his (and other\'s) play. I listen to Tom Brady\'s comments and they are always right on with regard to team success and getting behind a QB to get it done. AB just never puts it on himself when he does bad and when he does good he\'s like \"see, i told you i was great\". It\'s tired and I don\'t see his worldview shifting behind a better o line. He\'s still gonna call himself a victim because the boo birds have called in the past.

AB needs accountability...something he\'s never had. I would love to see him do well....it just makes it that much worse when he comes out 2 weeks later and looks like a rookie. If he comes out and leads us to 10-6 and we make a playoff run.....I will cheer for him mightily. But....I\'m tired of watching him make stupid plays...period.

couldn\'t have said it better. what\'s going to be really funny is when brooks struggles and several posters on this board have their excuses for him swept away.

LKelley67 · 04-26-2005, 11:47 AM

bad schemes. bad defense- ya cannot expect to ever win if playing from behind. those darned wide receivers. the o-line turns out to be a disappointment. how can ya succeed if fans are booing ya. there\'s plenty more where those came from baron.

04-26-2005, 02:33 AM	#21
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl Not as bad as D Stallworth and the others dropping 3 or 4 cruitial passes per game.
natedogg02 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 145

04-26-2005, 03:29 AM	#22
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl I agree with what you\'re saying, Nate. Problem is we\'re in a small market. Maybe Favre retiring, and AB putting up serious numbers wil help his bid. Going deep into the playoffs, also. I just don\'t see AB leap-frogging the other QBs I\'ve mentioned into the Pro Bowl, no matter what he does.
Zulu--King 100th Post Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 150

04-26-2005, 07:32 AM	#23
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl Dont forget about the Defense sucking all year and us not being able to run the ball cause were down by 30 points. This leads to AB throwing 40 to 60 times a game, allowing the other teams Defense to pin there ears back. And our O-line sucking did\'nt help either. If the O-line gives him time then AB can pick a Defense apart That would explain some things but what about our pathetic attempts to score in the first quarter --
4saintspirit 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 690

04-26-2005, 09:27 AM	#24
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl excellent point yas on pocket presence. i see regression in this aspect. when he first came on he had elusiveness in the pocket (whether much rush or little) and could put a little scare into other teams by having the long ball or running. these two things have definitely declined- +40 yd completions \'01- 13 \'02- 12 \'03- 7 \'04- 5 rushing yds/avg./1st downs rushing \'01- 358/4.5/24 \'02- 253/4.1/21 \'03- 175/3.2/20 \'04- 173/3.0/14 steady on the fumbles tho- \'01- 13 \'02- 11 \'03- 14 \'04- 13 poor foot work and holding the ball too long (cuz ya cannot read defenses well enough) will lower the interception rate and increase the number of sacks whether the line sucks or is all-pro. as far as the line, if mayberry has some gas left and bentley settles in then guard to guard should be fine. brown looks like he will be a road grader but will have some rookie learning curve to overcome. There are no Baylors on NFL schedules. Gandy got very old last year it seemed. He is 34 and has only missed one start in the past ten years. That is a lot of miles. We can only hope to get one more season out of him. If either of them goes down? That is scary. Folau didn\'t even appear serviceable when in there. Stinchcomb cannot stay on the active roster. It seems most say his future is at guard, if there is one. Kudos for the imagination to translate this line to the probowl for AB though.

04-26-2005, 10:18 AM	#25
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl We don\'t need brooks to be Vick. Brooks is more dangerous passing the ball... with the recievers and Deuce... sure an occasional scramble for a first down great... but give him much more time frees up recievers and let him be the gun-slinger that he is. Not only by improving the OL will benefit the passing game but also help Deuce and ball control equals less time your D will be on the field.

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04-26-2005, 10:31 AM	#26
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl i am not suggesting vick-likeness. he never has been that (700-900 yds, 7ypc). but having some scrambling threat as an aspect of his game did add a lot to the offense overall. yds rushing has decreased to less than half of \'01 and rushing 1st downs 24 to 14... significant loss! if we say the o-line has been deteriorating it seems he would have been on the run more. i think it has been more a conscious decision to not use that ability as much. he has stated as much hasn\'t he?

04-26-2005, 11:05 AM	#27
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl Not as bad as D Stallworth and the others dropping 3 or 4 cruitial passes per game. I\'m not sure I get this argument. While I won\'t argue that our WRs don\'t have the best hands, and could all improve in the hands department, how is this the reason for AB\'s inconsistent play??? For starters, our WRs are average to just above average in the drop category. We are far from leading the league. The number of drop experienced by AB\'s WRs when compared to the number of AB\'s attempts place the team\'s numbers in the middle of the pack. In other words, you can\'t say the Roethsliberger\'s WRs only dropped half the passes that AB\'s did, but AB thre twice as many passes. Second, this ignores other factors too. I will not argue for a second that our WRs dropped some very catchable balls. They also caught some very uncatchable balls. That counts for Brooks, right? I\'m amazed some times to see Pathon and Stallworth continue to sell out into monster hits after AB leads them directly into a safety. That doesn\'t count for anything? Finally, just play the numbers game. Let\'s say our WRs drop 5 balls in a game, and catch 15. That means that they caught 75% of the catchable balls and dropped 25%. AB misses on 40%-50% of his passes. I guarantee AB throws 5 terrible passes a game. Is that irrelevant? Also, how often did our WRs fumble on the one yard line? How often did the try to lateral while being tackled and toss the ball into a CB\'s hands? People like to talk about \"big\" drops. The one most pointed to is the Tampa Bay game of two years ago by Joe Horn that would have been a TD. Joe lost the game!!! Nevermind the fact that AB FUMBLED on the next play in field goal range and Tampa returned it into Saints territory. Nevermind that Horn, after being hobbled when selling out for a poor AB pass, still managed to sky on bad knees to make two amazing catches in the Carolina game that year, which basically single-handedly won the game for us. The point of all this: AB\'s WRs DO NOT hurt him more than they help him. Further, they are nowhere near handless mutants that some people make them out to be. Joe Horn can manage to go to the Pro Bowl with an inconsistent QB, bad running game, and no help from other WRs. AB cannot. Why does AB deserve a pass? Doesn\'t that just make Horn even more impressive then? If so, how can you call AB\'s WRs crap if Horn is such a stud?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

04-26-2005, 11:09 AM	#28
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,756	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl Clearly I see things much different than most. That is the understatement of the year... anyways... Every year Brooks has been here we have had a good offensive line except for last year. And out of all those years Brooks has only been to a ProBowl once as an ALTERNATE. What will be the exception this year? Can you honestly say he\'ll go before McNabb, Favre, Vick, Jake, Matt, etc...? I think not. The problem is ... not many fans want to blame an offensive line. I see people in this forum complain about pass rushers always in the back field all the time. :yes: Nonetheless I am a Saints fan as are the rest of us. Who wouldn\'t want him to make it to the ProBowl and prove lots of people wrong? This will be a make or break year for him... there are no more excuses. All the weapons are there for him now and our line is as good as the previous years prior to the last one. I honestly hope he does well because we are tired of 8-8 playoff-less seasons. Hell if the RedSoxs can win a pennant... why can\'t we? :P
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way.

04-26-2005, 11:31 AM	#29
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl I would be wrong if I said the line took care of business last year, but you are oversimplifying the equation here. Brooks tends to feel the pressure before it gets there. (Not bashing him...this could be a product of the pressure being pretty consistent.) You are foregetting about the Brooks shuffle where he spins around (only to lose any speed he had going his way) and runs INTO the pressure. Brooks does not have a very good pocket presence and if you argue against that, you are just not allowing yourself to be objective. If you can find a copy of the Tampa game at Tampa, watch it all the way through objectively. Brooks was horrible in that game and he created opportunities for the D to make sacks. He ran backwards and held the ball too long. I\'m not saying the line is blameless, but the QB has to realize the realities of his situation and adjust. I would love to see video of him stepping into a throw in the face of pressure....you just won\'t see it happen. Oh, and on 3 step drops, the line isn\'t much of a factor unless there is a crazy blitz. Ab routinely turns 3 step drops into 6 step drops with a loopty loo, do si do get sacked or sky one over the bench. That, my friend, is a man not executing the pass play. I gave AB the benefit of the doubt for 3 years and the \'04 season did it for me. I\'m over his game. I used to overlook games like the Cincy game where he threw a bonehead pick in the enzone or the play-in game against carolina in \'02 where the offense shut down every time they crossed the 50. I\'m done with AB. I don\'t think his head is in the right place and I think he is beyond reproach among this staff. I was glad to see Mike go, but disappointed to see another guy put in who has been in AB\'s ear all along. If AB is better this year, the line may be a factor. I don\'t disagree with that. However, I think Adrian will be a bigger factor because Brooks tends to bask in his own perceived greatness. AB might look at this guy and see a younger and possibly hungrier version of himself. He has grown comfy and complacent. He can no longer say \"I\'m long, lean and athletic, with a cannon arm\". There\'s another guy who can make the same claim now. He\'s gonna have to show some consistency or he can get on gettin on to another city who will boo him even more. I don\'t dislike AB. There are certainly much bigger Aholes in the league. But...you cannot deny that this team has missed some chances because of his (and other\'s) play. I listen to Tom Brady\'s comments and they are always right on with regard to team success and getting behind a QB to get it done. AB just never puts it on himself when he does bad and when he does good he\'s like \"see, i told you i was great\". It\'s tired and I don\'t see his worldview shifting behind a better o line. He\'s still gonna call himself a victim because the boo birds have called in the past. AB needs accountability...something he\'s never had. I would love to see him do well....it just makes it that much worse when he comes out 2 weeks later and looks like a rookie. If he comes out and leads us to 10-6 and we make a playoff run.....I will cheer for him mightily. But....I\'m tired of watching him make stupid plays...period. couldn\'t have said it better. what\'s going to be really funny is when brooks struggles and several posters on this board have their excuses for him swept away.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

04-26-2005, 11:47 AM	#30
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Offensive line = Brooks to Pro Bowl bad schemes. bad defense- ya cannot expect to ever win if playing from behind. those darned wide receivers. the o-line turns out to be a disappointment. how can ya succeed if fans are booing ya. there\'s plenty more where those came from baron.