Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round

05-06-2018, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Yes. The 2017-2018 New Orleans Saints. Seriously, no.

Edit:

It must be noted that one team did have co-DROY's in one year, however:

1980 - Buddy Curry, Atlanta, LB, and Al Richardson, Atlanta, LB

And that was the year they won the Super Bowl!

Oh... wait........!

jeanpierre · 05-06-2018, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Good write up here...

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/20/1...couting-report

Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for the article as it was written by a former player...

But the article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile...

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options come to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bulls-eyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when Davenport lines up this Fall...

Seer1 · 05-06-2018, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for it as it was written by a former player...

Article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile...

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall...

I'm thinking right now the Saints are year to year with Drew and they're going to keep sacrificing next year for a chance at a ring with Drew this year.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-06-2018, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot...

Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit...

But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall...

It's all a value proposition. First is whether or not Davenport has the value to be picked at the spot. There were numerous predraft articles that had Davenport as a top ten pick to the likes of the Colts at 6, the Bears at 8, and San Francisco at 9, along with Green Bay where he was eventually picked at 14.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...0-12518950.php

More Buzz Builds Around Marcus Davenport, Who Reportedly Met With Bears on Pre-Draft Visit

Next is the value of the trade. This is Rich Hill's modern NFL draft value chart:

It shows #14 with a value of 325.31 and #27 @ 215.81 leaving a remaining 109.50./ The 5th round #147 is worth 12.66 leaving 96.84 left. Conventional wisdom is to value a pick next year 32 slots below its current value this year. The 96.84 is between the 24th and 25th pick in the 2nd round. So the 1st next year matches a 24-25 pick for next year.

As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH

jeanpierre · 05-06-2018, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH

Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...

This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...

For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...

There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...

SmashMouth · 05-07-2018, 07:49 AM

Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

K Major · 05-07-2018, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it?

SFIAH

Precisely.

He's a Saint now and that's all that matters. I trust the front office on this move. If he turns into the next Julius Peppers, no one will care what it took to get Marcus in the 2018 Draft.

AsylumGuido · 05-07-2018, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...

This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...

For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...

There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...

I have to agree with you on this fact, JP. But, I am all in on trading the 2019 first rounder because I expect Davenport to have an immediate impact. And I honestly feel that Payton, Loomis, Allen AND Neilsen feel the exact same way and that is the reason they made the move. I have little doubt they tried to package a deal where it didn't include the future first. The Packers likely have as much confidence in the Saints going deep into the playoffs this year and were not interested in a second rounder that could easily be outside the first sixty picks of the draft. With Chubb gone there was probably not another potentially impact worthy DE on their board. They probably even approached other franchises in the attempt to move up. But, sometimes, if you believe in something strongly enough you must step outside the box a bit to get things done.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 05-07-2018, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem...

By this I mean that you cannot assess the impact of a player as a rookie. Not everyone is going to be Lattimore and Kamara.

Ingram is a perfect example of this. Since he wasn't the 2nd coming of Gayle Sayers in a 2007 Adrian Peterson body when as a rookie (again on another trade up) he was instantly labeled a bust. But his performance over the last few years has frankly been exceptional considering the RB climate he plays in.

This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close...

Tell that to Vaughn Miller. The guy literally won SB50 by himself, taking out a franchise QB and #1 pick.

And those are the types of guys that Davenport is being compared to...

For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...

Like JJ Watt, another that I've seen Davenport compared to.

There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later...

I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey...

And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...

I don't think that's effective with gameday roster limitations. Also it takes exceptional talent to override most NFL O-line's ability to manage the rush.

SFIAH

K Major · 05-07-2018, 11:55 AM

Quick read on Marcus D & the importance of getting him early in the draft.

Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

05-06-2018, 10:32 AM	#161
Threaded by Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Yes. The 2017-2018 New Orleans Saints. Seriously, no. Edit: It must be noted that one team did have co-DROY's in one year, however: 1980 - Buddy Curry, Atlanta, LB, and Al Richardson, Atlanta, LB And that was the year they won the Super Bowl! Oh... wait........! AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.
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05-06-2018, 03:12 PM	#162
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by SmashMouth Good write up here... https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/20/1...couting-report Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for the article as it was written by a former player... But the article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile... Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options come to us in our original first round slot... Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bulls-eyes you can hit... But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when Davenport lines up this Fall... ChrisXVI likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 05-06-2018 at 11:18 PM..

05-06-2018, 07:15 PM	#163
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by jeanpierre Plus-one - probably the best scouting I've seen on Marcus Davenport. And I have more respect for it as it was written by a former player... Article still didn't account for Davenport's lack of adversity, that is, he didn't face any opposition of consequence in college - until Mobile... Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot... Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit... But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall... I'm thinking right now the Saints are year to year with Drew and they're going to keep sacrificing next year for a chance at a ring with Drew this year.

05-06-2018, 07:54 PM	#164
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by jeanpierre Still vehemently HATE using two first round picks as I'd prefer the disciplined approach - Take what options to us in our original first round slot... Plus, next year's draft will be loaded with edge rushers, including Bosa's brother; the more darts you have, the more bullseyes you can hit... But reading this artlcle did offer some salve from the draft; and, at the end of the day, the full evaluation takes when he lines up this Fall... It's all a value proposition. First is whether or not Davenport has the value to be picked at the spot. There were numerous predraft articles that had Davenport as a top ten pick to the likes of the Colts at 6, the Bears at 8, and San Francisco at 9, along with Green Bay where he was eventually picked at 14. https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...0-12518950.php More Buzz Builds Around Marcus Davenport, Who Reportedly Met With Bears on Pre-Draft Visit Next is the value of the trade. This is Rich Hill's modern NFL draft value chart: It shows #14 with a value of 325.31 and #27 @ 215.81 leaving a remaining 109.50./ The 5th round #147 is worth 12.66 leaving 96.84 left. Conventional wisdom is to value a pick next year 32 slots below its current value this year. The 96.84 is between the 24th and 25th pick in the 2nd round. So the 1st next year matches a 24-25 pick for next year. As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it? SFIAH jeanpierre, homerj07 and K Major like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

05-06-2018, 11:06 PM	#165
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it? SFIAH Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem... This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close... For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure... There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later... I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey... And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 05-06-2018 at 11:21 PM..

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05-07-2018, 07:49 AM	#166
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,044 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

05-07-2018, 08:12 AM	#167
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,588 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL As for on field performance, Give it 3-4 years. If the kid turns out to be a Pro Bowl/All Pro prospect, then the fact that there are pass rushers next year really won't matter, will it? SFIAH Precisely. He's a Saint now and that's all that matters. I trust the front office on this move. If he turns into the next Julius Peppers, no one will care what it took to get Marcus in the 2018 Draft. AsylumGuido likes this.

05-07-2018, 08:17 AM	#168
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,044	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by jeanpierre Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years - that is where I have a problem... This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close... For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure... There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later... I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey... And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options... I have to agree with you on this fact, JP. But, I am all in on trading the 2019 first rounder because I expect Davenport to have an immediate impact. And I honestly feel that Payton, Loomis, Allen AND Neilsen feel the exact same way and that is the reason they made the move. I have little doubt they tried to package a deal where it didn't include the future first. The Packers likely have as much confidence in the Saints going deep into the playoffs this year and were not interested in a second rounder that could easily be outside the first sixty picks of the draft. With Chubb gone there was probably not another potentially impact worthy DE on their board. They probably even approached other franchises in the attempt to move up. But, sometimes, if you believe in something strongly enough you must step outside the box a bit to get things done. jeanpierre, WW_Who_Dat and K Major like this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

05-07-2018, 09:38 AM	#169
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Originally Posted by jeanpierre *Appreciate the post. But folks lose me when arguing in support of the pick with Give it 3-4 years* - that is where I have a problem... By this I mean that you cannot assess the impact of a player as a rookie. Not everyone is going to be Lattimore and Kamara. Ingram is a perfect example of this. Since he wasn't the 2nd coming of Gayle Sayers in a 2007 Adrian Peterson body when as a rookie (again on another trade up) he was instantly labeled a bust. But his performance over the last few years has frankly been exceptional considering the RB climate he plays in. This isn't a Franchise Quarterback - Defensive End isn't even close... Tell that to Vaughn Miller. The guy literally won SB50 by himself, taking out a franchise QB and #1 pick. And those are the types of guys that Davenport is being compared to... For two first round picks, we should be getting sixteen to twenty sacks and constant, consistent pressure...** Like JJ Watt, another that I've seen Davenport compared to. There are several ways to generate pressure on the quarterback and there were Defensive Tackles and Defensive Ends on the board at 27 and later... I'd rather had dedicated the draft, or at least four to five picks, and rotated the defensive lines every series like they rotate in Hockey... And let those rotating guys play with more rpms and wear down the opponents' offensive lines keeping our defensive lines fresh, going with the hot options... I don't think that's effective with gameday roster limitations. Also it takes exceptional talent to override most NFL O-line's ability to manage the rush. SFIAH Danno, AsylumGuido and K Major like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

05-07-2018, 11:55 AM	#170
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,588 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints draft Marcus Davenport after trading up in first round Quick read on Marcus D & the importance of getting him early in the draft. Saints see pass rusher as a premium position like quarterback, left tackle, cornerback – ProFootballTalk

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