Where are the guys who love ..... ???

saintsfan1313 · 04-26-2005, 10:11 PM

Hey Mods, any news on the Therapists and Mediators we requested for after the draft???? I think we need a member who is involved in couseling or something, cuz things be gettin crazy here at BNG.net

saintswhodi · 04-26-2005, 10:20 PM

All Ranked Players
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE FLAG RANK COMMENT
Braylon Edwards WR 6\'2\" 211 MICHIGAN 99 1 Expert\'s Take
Aaron Rodgers QB 6\'2\" 223 CALIFORNIA 99 B 2 Expert\'s Take
Alex Smith QB 6\'4\" 217 UTAH 98 B 3 Expert\'s Take
Ronnie Brown RB 6\'0\" 233 AUBURN 98 4 Expert\'s Take
Adam Jones CB 5\'9\" 187 WEST VIRGINIA 98 BM 5 Expert\'s Take
Carnell Williams RB 5\'10\" 217 AUBURN 97 D 6 Expert\'s Take
Mike Williams WR 6\'4\" 229 USC 97 7 Expert\'s Take
Derrick Johnson OLB 6\'3\" 242 TEXAS 96 8 Expert\'s Take
Antrel Rolle CB 6\'0\" 201 MIAMI (FLA.) 96 9 Expert\'s Take
Cedric Benson RB 5\'10\" 222 TEXAS 96 C 10 Expert\'s Take
Shawne Merriman OLB 6\'3\" 249 MARYLAND 95 11 Expert\'s Take
Travis Johnson DT 6\'3\" 290 FLORIDA STATE 95 CD 12 Expert\'s Take
Alex Barron OT 6\'7\" 320 FLORIDA STATE 95 13 Expert\'s Take
David Pollack DE 6\'2\" 265 GEORGIA 95 14 Expert\'s Take
Marcus Spears DE 6\'4\" 307 LOUISIANA STATE 94 DS 15 Expert\'s Take
Troy Williamson WR 6\'1\" 203 SOUTH CAROLINA 94 16 Expert\'s Take
Erasmus James DE 6\'4\" 266 WISCONSIN 93 D 17 Expert\'s Take
Heath Miller TE 6\'5\" 256 VIRGINIA 93 D 18 Expert\'s Take
Carlos Rogers CB 6\'0\" 196 AUBURN 93 19 Expert\'s Take
Dan Cody DE 6\'5\" 257 OKLAHOMA 92 D 20 Expert\'s Take
Shaun Cody DT 6\'4\" 293 USC 92 B 21 Expert\'s Take
Khalif Barnes OT 6\'5\" 305 WASHINGTON 91 D 22 Expert\'s Take
Matt Roth DE 6\'3\" 278 IOWA 91 23 Expert\'s Take

Thomas Davis S 6\'1\" 230 GEORGIA 91 24 Expert\'s Take
Mark Clayton WR 5\'10\" 193 OKLAHOMA 91 B 25 Expert\'s Take
Fabian Washington CB 5\'10\" 188 NEBRASKA 91 B 26 Expert\'s Take
Roddy White WR 6\'1\" 207 ALABAMA-BIRMINGHAM 90 27 Expert\'s Take
Jammal Brown OT 6\'5\" 316 OKLAHOMA 90 M 28 Expert\'s Take
Marlin Jackson CB 6\'0\" 198 MICHIGAN 90 CD 29 Expert\'s Take
Channing Crowder ILB 6\'2\" 242 FLORIDA 90 CD 30 Expert\'s Take
Demarcus Ware DE 6\'4\" 251 TROY STATE 90 B 31 Expert\'s Take

Brodney Pool S 6\'1\" 207 OKLAHOMA 90 32 Expert\'s Take
David Baas C 6\'4\" 319 MICHIGAN 89 33 Expert\'s Take
Kevin Burnett OLB 6\'2\" 239 TENNESSEE 89 D 34 Expert\'s Take
Justin Miller CB 5\'9\" 201 CLEMSON 89 B 35 Expert\'s Take
Anttaj Hawthorne DT 6\'3\" 321 WISCONSIN 89 36 Expert\'s Take
Reggie Brown WR 6\'1\" 196 GEORGIA 88 D 37 Expert\'s Take
Odell Thurman ILB 6\'0\" 233 GEORGIA 88 CM 38 Expert\'s Take
Brandon Browner CB 6\'3\" 221 OREGON STATE 88 S 39 Expert\'s Take
Chris Canty DE 6\'7\" 286 VIRGINIA 88 CI 40 Expert\'s Take
Barrett Ruud ILB 6\'2\" 247 NEBRASKA 87 41 Expert\'s Take
Darryl Blackstock OLB 6\'2\" 247 VIRGINIA 87 42 Expert\'s Take
Elton Brown OG 6\'4\" 329 VIRGINIA 87 43 Expert\'s Take
Marcus Johnson OT 6\'6\" 321 MISSISSIPPI 87 S 44 Expert\'s Take
Justin Tuck DE 6\'4\" 265 NOTRE DAME 87 D 45 Expert\'s Take
Jason Campbell QB 6\'4\" 230 AUBURN 86 46 Expert\'s Take
Luis Castillo DT 6\'3\" 303 NORTHWESTERN 86 47 Expert\'s Take
Eric Green CB 5\'11\" 198 VIRGINIA TECH 86 D 48 Expert\'s Take
Roscoe Parrish WR 5\'9\" 168 MIAMI (FLA.) 86 BM 49 Expert\'s Take
Chris Spencer C 6\'2\" 309 MISSISSIPPI 85 50 Expert\'s Take
NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE FLAG RANK COMMENT
Mike Patterson DT 5\'11\" 292 USC 85 BM 51 Expert\'s Take

Ernest Shazor S 6\'3\" 228 MICHIGAN 85 S 52 Expert\'s Take
Chris Henry WR 6\'4\" 197 WEST VIRGINIA 85 CM 53 Expert\'s Take
JJ Arrington RB 5\'8\" 214 CALIFORNIA 85 B 54 Expert\'s Take
Charlie Frye QB 6\'3\" 225 AKRON 85 55 Expert\'s Take
Corey Webster CB 6\'0\" 199 LOUISIANA STATE 84 DM 56 Expert\'s Take
Adam Terry OT 6\'8\" 330 SYRACUSE 84 B 57 Expert\'s Take
Andrew Walter QB 6\'6\" 233 ARIZONA STATE 84 D 58 Expert\'s Take
Bryant McFadden CB 5\'11\" 193 FLORIDA STATE 82 59 Expert\'s Take
Alex Smith TE 6\'4\" 258 STANFORD 83 60 Expert\'s Take
Eric Shelton RB 6\'1\" 246 LOUISVILLE 83 M 61 Expert\'s Take
Jerome Mathis WR 5\'11\" 181 HAMPTON 82 62 Expert\'s Take
Logan Mankins OG 6\'4\" 307 FRESNO STATE 81 63 Expert\'s Take
Fred Gibson WR 6\'4\" 196 GEORGIA 81 CD 64 Expert\'s Take
Antonio Perkins CB 5\'10\" 190 OKLAHOMA 81 D 65 Expert\'s Take
Jonathan Babineaux DT 6\'2\" 286 IOWA 80 BD 66 Expert\'s Take
Vernand Morency RB 5\'9\" 212 OKLAHOMA STATE 80 A 67 Expert\'s Take
Ciatrick Fason RB 6\'0\" 207 FLORIDA 79 M 68 Expert\'s Take
Kyle Orton QB 6\'4\" 233 PURDUE 79 69 Expert\'s Take
Stanley Wilson CB 5\'11\" 185 STANFORD 79 70 Expert\'s Take
Terrence Murphy WR 6\'0\" 202 TEXAS A&M 79 71 Expert\'s Take
Chris Colmer OT 6\'5\" 310 NORTH CAROLINA ST 79 D 72 Expert\'s Take

Josh Bullocks S 6\'0\" 209 NEBRASKA 79 73 Expert\'s Take

It didn\'t come out smooth, but Bullocks is the 4th rated safety on this board. ESPN Insider.

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

[Edited on 27/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

Danno · 04-26-2005, 10:45 PM

So, he was rated behind
Davis, who\'s actually a LB
Pool, who was the 1st taken
and Shazor, who wasn\'t even drafted.

Who rates the insider players? Randy Meuller? LMAO.

BrooksMustGo · 04-26-2005, 11:15 PM

Against my better judgment, I\'m going to post on this thread.

Brown-- marvelous pick. I\'m all in favor of a power running game and Brown will be huge in helping us do it. Honestly, I wanted DJ if we were going to move up. But it seemed funny to me to try and put Mayberry at Tackle. Even if DJ becomes a regular pro-bowler, Brown will be well worth taking if we can average 4 ypc in the ground game.

Bullock-- I don\'t get this pick. I agree with Billy, that the guy is a football guy with good talent around the ball and isn\'t just a track star. I don\'t get why we sign a FS in free agency and then draft a FS in round 2. Additionally, Bullock is very good playing zone. He isn\'t a heavy hitter, doesn\'t seem to be great in run support. This isn\'t such a big deal if both of our corners weren\'t so good playing man coverage. Doesn\'t seem to be a good match for the talents of our corners, good for depth, but I don\'t see him starting this season.

I think we\'ll regret taking Thurman in this spot.

Fincher-- optimistic about this pick?--My gut feeling is that this guy is Ruff-2. But he did lead the big east in tackles and seems to have tons of heart and intangibles. He\'s probably more intelligent and has more football savvy than all of our other linebackers, so I\'m optimistic. I hope he plays better than all the other LB\'s we\'ve taken in round 3 under Haslett.

JOESAM2002 · 04-26-2005, 11:18 PM

You guys are going to force me to lock this thread!

cardboardboxer · 04-27-2005, 12:21 AM

Best time of the year to be a Saints fan is in between April and August...

Anything can happen then.

saintswhodi · 04-27-2005, 09:31 AM

I am sorry you would have to do that Joe. But one question, can you show me the exact point the tone of the thread changed? Seems like one member came in and ASSumed that my opinions were only an attempt to disagree with Gumbo, when we were having the most civil discussion I remember in a while. So based on that ASSumption, this member created a hostile post, and tried to fan the flames of discord between myself and Gumbo. Now again I have to wonder, is it because of this member\'s long time status here that his posts escaped editing while mine were? Especially since the thread was quite civil until this poster\'s ASSumption.

Saint_LB · 04-27-2005, 09:52 AM

I am sorry you would have to do that Joe. But one question, can you show me the exact point the tone of the thread changed? Seems like one member came in and ASSumed that my opinions were only an attempt to disagree with Gumbo, when we were having the most civil discussion I remember in a while. So based on that ASSumption, this member created a hostile post, and tried to fan the flames of discord between myself and Gumbo. Now again I have to wonder, is it because of this member\'s long time status here that his posts escaped editing while mine were? Especially since the thread was quite civil until this poster\'s ASSumption.

I think Whodi deserves an answer to his question, mods. There is much truth to what he is saying. Why are certain people allowed to antagonize while others aren\'t?

WhoDat · 04-27-2005, 10:23 AM

Bill Parcells thinks Alfred Fincher is going to be a good one.

Wait a second Billy - I thought Parcells didn\'t know his a$$hole from a hole in the ground... right?

I mean, the Cowboys sucked last year, didn\'t they? Haslett knows more about football, right?

How can you ever use Parcells to support an opinion when you have attacked the guy for two years?

Danno · 04-27-2005, 10:27 AM

I think Whodi deserves an answer to his question, mods. There is much truth to what he is saying. Why are certain people allowed to antagonize while others aren\'t?

How about you show me where I was any more antagonistic or condescending than Whodi.

04-26-2005, 10:11 PM	#11
saintsfan1313 El Mero Mero Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kingsville, Tx Posts: 669	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? Hey Mods, any news on the Therapists and Mediators we requested for after the draft???? I think we need a member who is involved in couseling or something, cuz things be gettin crazy here at BNG.net

04-26-2005, 10:20 PM	#12
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? All Ranked Players NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE FLAG RANK COMMENT Braylon Edwards WR 6\'2\" 211 MICHIGAN 99 1 Expert\'s Take Aaron Rodgers QB 6\'2\" 223 CALIFORNIA 99 B 2 Expert\'s Take Alex Smith QB 6\'4\" 217 UTAH 98 B 3 Expert\'s Take Ronnie Brown RB 6\'0\" 233 AUBURN 98 4 Expert\'s Take Adam Jones CB 5\'9\" 187 WEST VIRGINIA 98 BM 5 Expert\'s Take Carnell Williams RB 5\'10\" 217 AUBURN 97 D 6 Expert\'s Take Mike Williams WR 6\'4\" 229 USC 97 7 Expert\'s Take Derrick Johnson OLB 6\'3\" 242 TEXAS 96 8 Expert\'s Take Antrel Rolle CB 6\'0\" 201 MIAMI (FLA.) 96 9 Expert\'s Take Cedric Benson RB 5\'10\" 222 TEXAS 96 C 10 Expert\'s Take Shawne Merriman OLB 6\'3\" 249 MARYLAND 95 11 Expert\'s Take Travis Johnson DT 6\'3\" 290 FLORIDA STATE 95 CD 12 Expert\'s Take Alex Barron OT 6\'7\" 320 FLORIDA STATE 95 13 Expert\'s Take David Pollack DE 6\'2\" 265 GEORGIA 95 14 Expert\'s Take Marcus Spears DE 6\'4\" 307 LOUISIANA STATE 94 DS 15 Expert\'s Take Troy Williamson WR 6\'1\" 203 SOUTH CAROLINA 94 16 Expert\'s Take Erasmus James DE 6\'4\" 266 WISCONSIN 93 D 17 Expert\'s Take Heath Miller TE 6\'5\" 256 VIRGINIA 93 D 18 Expert\'s Take Carlos Rogers CB 6\'0\" 196 AUBURN 93 19 Expert\'s Take Dan Cody DE 6\'5\" 257 OKLAHOMA 92 D 20 Expert\'s Take Shaun Cody DT 6\'4\" 293 USC 92 B 21 Expert\'s Take Khalif Barnes OT 6\'5\" 305 WASHINGTON 91 D 22 Expert\'s Take Matt Roth DE 6\'3\" 278 IOWA 91 23 Expert\'s Take Thomas Davis S 6\'1\" 230 GEORGIA 91 24 Expert\'s Take Mark Clayton WR 5\'10\" 193 OKLAHOMA 91 B 25 Expert\'s Take Fabian Washington CB 5\'10\" 188 NEBRASKA 91 B 26 Expert\'s Take Roddy White WR 6\'1\" 207 ALABAMA-BIRMINGHAM 90 27 Expert\'s Take Jammal Brown OT 6\'5\" 316 OKLAHOMA 90 M 28 Expert\'s Take Marlin Jackson CB 6\'0\" 198 MICHIGAN 90 CD 29 Expert\'s Take Channing Crowder ILB 6\'2\" 242 FLORIDA 90 CD 30 Expert\'s Take Demarcus Ware DE 6\'4\" 251 TROY STATE 90 B 31 Expert\'s Take Brodney Pool S 6\'1\" 207 OKLAHOMA 90 32 Expert\'s Take David Baas C 6\'4\" 319 MICHIGAN 89 33 Expert\'s Take Kevin Burnett OLB 6\'2\" 239 TENNESSEE 89 D 34 Expert\'s Take Justin Miller CB 5\'9\" 201 CLEMSON 89 B 35 Expert\'s Take Anttaj Hawthorne DT 6\'3\" 321 WISCONSIN 89 36 Expert\'s Take Reggie Brown WR 6\'1\" 196 GEORGIA 88 D 37 Expert\'s Take Odell Thurman ILB 6\'0\" 233 GEORGIA 88 CM 38 Expert\'s Take Brandon Browner CB 6\'3\" 221 OREGON STATE 88 S 39 Expert\'s Take Chris Canty DE 6\'7\" 286 VIRGINIA 88 CI 40 Expert\'s Take Barrett Ruud ILB 6\'2\" 247 NEBRASKA 87 41 Expert\'s Take Darryl Blackstock OLB 6\'2\" 247 VIRGINIA 87 42 Expert\'s Take Elton Brown OG 6\'4\" 329 VIRGINIA 87 43 Expert\'s Take Marcus Johnson OT 6\'6\" 321 MISSISSIPPI 87 S 44 Expert\'s Take Justin Tuck DE 6\'4\" 265 NOTRE DAME 87 D 45 Expert\'s Take Jason Campbell QB 6\'4\" 230 AUBURN 86 46 Expert\'s Take Luis Castillo DT 6\'3\" 303 NORTHWESTERN 86 47 Expert\'s Take Eric Green CB 5\'11\" 198 VIRGINIA TECH 86 D 48 Expert\'s Take Roscoe Parrish WR 5\'9\" 168 MIAMI (FLA.) 86 BM 49 Expert\'s Take Chris Spencer C 6\'2\" 309 MISSISSIPPI 85 50 Expert\'s Take NAME POS HT WT SCHOOL GRADE FLAG RANK COMMENT Mike Patterson DT 5\'11\" 292 USC 85 BM 51 Expert\'s Take Ernest Shazor S 6\'3\" 228 MICHIGAN 85 S 52 Expert\'s Take Chris Henry WR 6\'4\" 197 WEST VIRGINIA 85 CM 53 Expert\'s Take JJ Arrington RB 5\'8\" 214 CALIFORNIA 85 B 54 Expert\'s Take Charlie Frye QB 6\'3\" 225 AKRON 85 55 Expert\'s Take Corey Webster CB 6\'0\" 199 LOUISIANA STATE 84 DM 56 Expert\'s Take Adam Terry OT 6\'8\" 330 SYRACUSE 84 B 57 Expert\'s Take Andrew Walter QB 6\'6\" 233 ARIZONA STATE 84 D 58 Expert\'s Take Bryant McFadden CB 5\'11\" 193 FLORIDA STATE 82 59 Expert\'s Take Alex Smith TE 6\'4\" 258 STANFORD 83 60 Expert\'s Take Eric Shelton RB 6\'1\" 246 LOUISVILLE 83 M 61 Expert\'s Take Jerome Mathis WR 5\'11\" 181 HAMPTON 82 62 Expert\'s Take Logan Mankins OG 6\'4\" 307 FRESNO STATE 81 63 Expert\'s Take Fred Gibson WR 6\'4\" 196 GEORGIA 81 CD 64 Expert\'s Take Antonio Perkins CB 5\'10\" 190 OKLAHOMA 81 D 65 Expert\'s Take Jonathan Babineaux DT 6\'2\" 286 IOWA 80 BD 66 Expert\'s Take Vernand Morency RB 5\'9\" 212 OKLAHOMA STATE 80 A 67 Expert\'s Take Ciatrick Fason RB 6\'0\" 207 FLORIDA 79 M 68 Expert\'s Take Kyle Orton QB 6\'4\" 233 PURDUE 79 69 Expert\'s Take Stanley Wilson CB 5\'11\" 185 STANFORD 79 70 Expert\'s Take Terrence Murphy WR 6\'0\" 202 TEXAS A&M 79 71 Expert\'s Take Chris Colmer OT 6\'5\" 310 NORTH CAROLINA ST 79 D 72 Expert\'s Take Josh Bullocks S 6\'0\" 209 NEBRASKA 79 73 Expert\'s Take It didn\'t come out smooth, but Bullocks is the 4th rated safety on this board. ESPN Insider. [Edited on 27/4/2005 by saintswhodi] [Edited on 27/4/2005 by saintswhodi]

04-26-2005, 10:45 PM	#13
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? So, he was rated behind Davis, who\'s actually a LB Pool, who was the 1st taken and Shazor, who wasn\'t even drafted. Who rates the insider players? Randy Meuller? LMAO.

04-26-2005, 11:15 PM	#14
BrooksMustGo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,762	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? Against my better judgment, I\'m going to post on this thread. Brown-- marvelous pick. I\'m all in favor of a power running game and Brown will be huge in helping us do it. Honestly, I wanted DJ if we were going to move up. But it seemed funny to me to try and put Mayberry at Tackle. Even if DJ becomes a regular pro-bowler, Brown will be well worth taking if we can average 4 ypc in the ground game. Bullock-- I don\'t get this pick. I agree with Billy, that the guy is a football guy with good talent around the ball and isn\'t just a track star. I don\'t get why we sign a FS in free agency and then draft a FS in round 2. Additionally, Bullock is very good playing zone. He isn\'t a heavy hitter, doesn\'t seem to be great in run support. This isn\'t such a big deal if both of our corners weren\'t so good playing man coverage. Doesn\'t seem to be a good match for the talents of our corners, good for depth, but I don\'t see him starting this season. I think we\'ll regret taking Thurman in this spot. Fincher-- optimistic about this pick?--My gut feeling is that this guy is Ruff-2. But he did lead the big east in tackles and seems to have tons of heart and intangibles. He\'s probably more intelligent and has more football savvy than all of our other linebackers, so I\'m optimistic. I hope he plays better than all the other LB\'s we\'ve taken in round 3 under Haslett.
	http://www.blackandgold.net/site/signature/buddysig.jpg

04-26-2005, 11:18 PM	#15
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? You guys are going to force me to lock this thread!

Latest Blogs
2023 New Orleans Saints: Training Camp Last Blog: 08-01-2023 By: MarchingOn Puck the Fro Browl! Last Blog: 02-05-2023 By: neugey CFP: "Just Keep Doing What You're Doing" Last Blog: 12-08-2022 By: neugey

04-27-2005, 12:21 AM	#16
cardboardboxer Registered Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 65	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? Best time of the year to be a Saints fan is in between April and August... Anything can happen then.
cardboardboxer Registered Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 65

04-27-2005, 09:31 AM	#17
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? I am sorry you would have to do that Joe. But one question, can you show me the exact point the tone of the thread changed? Seems like one member came in and ASSumed that my opinions were only an attempt to disagree with Gumbo, when we were having the most civil discussion I remember in a while. So based on that ASSumption, this member created a hostile post, and tried to fan the flames of discord between myself and Gumbo. Now again I have to wonder, is it because of this member\'s long time status here that his posts escaped editing while mine were? Especially since the thread was quite civil until this poster\'s ASSumption.

04-27-2005, 09:52 AM	#18
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? I am sorry you would have to do that Joe. But one question, can you show me the exact point the tone of the thread changed? Seems like one member came in and ASSumed that my opinions were only an attempt to disagree with Gumbo, when we were having the most civil discussion I remember in a while. So based on that ASSumption, this member created a hostile post, and tried to fan the flames of discord between myself and Gumbo. Now again I have to wonder, is it because of this member\'s long time status here that his posts escaped editing while mine were? Especially since the thread was quite civil until this poster\'s ASSumption. I think Whodi deserves an answer to his question, mods. There is much truth to what he is saying. Why are certain people allowed to antagonize while others aren\'t?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894

04-27-2005, 10:23 AM	#19
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? Bill Parcells thinks Alfred Fincher is going to be a good one. Wait a second Billy - I thought Parcells didn\'t know his a$$hole from a hole in the ground... right? I mean, the Cowboys sucked last year, didn\'t they? Haslett knows more about football, right? How can you ever use Parcells to support an opinion when you have attacked the guy for two years?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

04-27-2005, 10:27 AM	#20
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,725	Where are the guys who love ..... ??? I think Whodi deserves an answer to his question, mods. There is much truth to what he is saying. Why are certain people allowed to antagonize while others aren\'t? How about you show me where I was any more antagonistic or condescending than Whodi.