JKool

Billy, I\'m just feeling a little crotchety today. I gotta go though - more on this when I return.

saintswhodi

Also, not to make too fine a point of it, Robertson was not a full time starter when they drafted him. They had Jason Ferguson(full time starter now in Dallas), Josh Evans(starter when he wasn\'t injured), Chester McGlockton and James Reed. Robertson started the games, but he was spelled a lot and brought along slowly. He then showed improvement in year two. I am with Kool, I don\'t know how the conclusion could be drawn that Sullivan would have had the same production had he played.

If we are looking at other DTs, we should use more than one. Let\'s look at Kevin Williams the second year pro bowler drafted after Sullivan.

G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD PassDef
16 51 36.0 15 10.5 1 3 3.0 3 0 3
16 70 52.0 18 11.5 1 7 7.0 7 0 7

Seems like his stats blew Sullivan\'s away completely. Again, drafted after Sullivan. So two DTs. One that blew Sully away, and one that was brought on slowly in year one, and actually improved in year two. I haven\'t found any articles about him showing up to Jets\' camp overweight though. Maybe being at your playing weight and wanting to improve can help you as a player? Who knew?

But, honestly I can\'t see how the statement that Sully would have had stats similar to Robertson in year two had he played. That\'s totally unsubstantiated, but what can be proven is Sully obviously does not have the DESIRE to play and get better like Robertson, so a case coul dbe made for the exact opposite, which is what actually happened.

Danno

Is 11.5 still on our roster?

Yea, I\'m sure 2005 will be his bust out year.
He\'ll have a huge season I\'m sure.
He\'ll make people eat their words.
Hot dog! I\'m excited about his chances.
There\'s no time to waste.
Hurry sign him to a big fat contract extension.


Sullivan is officially a bust until HE proves otherwise. And he may have to prove it for more than 1 year to shake that bust label.

Can we get some cap relief for only having a 52 man roster?

spkb25

gumbo ur right except that sully just didnt have any drive and that is why he didnt play in as many games as robertson. but im hoping that this guy gets his arse in gear this year.

LKelley67

phew, good job guys. i knew what to expect from this thread before i even opened it. when your evalutation of a defensive lineman is from stats only you might attempt to paint some picture you want from convoluted numbers. anyone with any football IQ can look at the play and performance of those lineman and see the difference with your eyes however. you don\'t need any stats. robertson was a disappointment in year one but not considered a bust. he was widely recognized last year for radically turning his game around and stepping up in performance. williams? hahaha, probowl enough comparison?
maybe you can billy but you obviously saw a different sullivan with your eyes than the one we saw last year. he gave no sign of that in performance when on the field and when off only said and did things to make that perception stronger.
hmmm...
eddie brown had a bigger rookie year than jerry rice, more catches, 5 more td\'s, offensive rookie of the year. Given Brown\'s first year production (which surpassed Rice\'s) I think I can draw the conclusion that Brown would have surpassed Rice\'s production had he been on the field. I don\'t think that\'s too big of a stretch. Brown 102 games, Rice 303. Brown 363 catches, Rice 1549. Oops.
Hey, I hope Sully can do something. he\'s gonna get paid either way so anything would be better than what he has shown thusfar. I hope I win the lottery this month too.

spkb25

LKELLEY ur right. its not that sully was horrible his rookie season its that he wasnt in shape in year two. never mind the fact that he didnt seem to want to play. i hope the guy gets it in gear