...the AB challenge.

baronm · 05-03-2005, 09:01 AM

QB=pitcher--yes, the team behind him can effect his W/L but he should be the focal point of the attack...and give his team the chance for victory....3 and outs a good team does not make...that\'s why I think QB ratings tell alot of the story for QB\'s.

yasoon · 05-03-2005, 09:30 AM

A team COULD log 10-11 wins with a mediocre QB, it has certainly been done. But, I would say that if this team logs 10-11 wins, AB will have to have a considerable hand in it, even if Deuce has a really good year.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the timing of the screwups. It really is weird how AB (and others on this team) have such a knack for dropping a ball, fumbling, etc at the worst possible time. It\'s hard to quantify that, I believe whodi brought up red zone turnovers, which will kill a team.

If we were talking about O linemen, stats would be tough. But, with AB, the stats should give a pretty good indicator of the team\'s ultimate success. I think we could all agree that if AB has a year similar to last year, we will not do better than 8-8 unless the Ravens or Steelers come over to handle the other side of the ball for us.

I think we could also agree that AB\'s 24-8 year was incredibly efficient if it weren\'t for all the fumbles (most of which were painfully ill timed). I think that\'s why so many of us are so frustrated with him.

AB\'s skillset is like a whack-a-mole. Knock one problem down and another one pops up. I would love to see all the moles get whacked this year, but he\'s made a skeptic out of me, that\'s why I started this thread.

WhoDat · 05-03-2005, 09:35 AM

So....all the bashers out there. What numbers would AB have to put up for you to say \"whoa, I\'ll lay off\"?

Aaron Brooks has claimed he\'s a great QB. He has called himself top 5, and demanded to be paid at a top 5 QB salary. He got it. For me to lay off, he has to be top 5 in at very least ONE relevant passing category (passes to a lineman, underhanded INTs, and throws off of a backfoot do not count).

Based on last year\'s numbers, top five in the following categories would be:

Yards: 4088 or more
Comp %: 66.37% or better
TDs: 29 or more
INTs: 10 or fewer
QB Rating: 98.1 or better

Here\'s how Aaron finished last year:
Yards: 9th (Delhomme was 7th)
Comp %: 24th (Delhomme was 20th)
TDs: 11th(tie) (Delhomme was 5th)
INTs: 23rd(tie) (Delhomme tied for 20th)
QB Rating: 19th (Delhomme was 12th)

All BS aside, numbers are just numbers. For me to layoff of AB, he is going to have to a) play consistent football, b) shut up about it until he does, and c) outplay, at least in one or two statistical categories, players we\'ve let go to keep him (e.g. Delhomme, Bulger, Blake...)

Tobias-Reiper · 05-03-2005, 09:57 AM

..hmmm...

\"Aaron Brooks lead the Saints to their only playoff win\"...

... is this statement true or false?

yasoon · 05-03-2005, 10:07 AM

\"Aaron Brooks lead the Saints to their only playoff win\"...

True. And you can\'t take that away from him or Haslett.

But....how long does that win resonate? It\'s kinda worn off for me.

I will give you this. If you watch AB back then vs last year, you would think they were reversed in NFL experience.

Maybe that\'s on Mike, because he stifled the progress. Or maybe AB\'s early success just screwed his head up.

baronm · 05-03-2005, 10:10 AM

here\'s another thing to consider-the NFC was completely awful last year..and we still couldn\'t make it to the playoffs.

saintswhodi · 05-03-2005, 10:12 AM

I think the point of Tobias\' question yasoon was, if we give credit for AB \"leading\" this team to it\'s only playoff win, then blame should equally be laid at his feet for the losses and subsequent mediocrity of the team. Is that correct tobias? Dude you are so deep sometimes even I get confused.

yasoon · 05-03-2005, 10:23 AM

Yeah, I wasn\'t sure if that was sarcastic or not. The playoff card will get pulled from time to time

Either way, my stance on that is the same. Good year. Good win. AB deserves credit for that, especially since our O was putting points on the board back then. I thought it was the start of something really nice but it is fading fast into NFL history.

The credit for that season can go around to the whole team. But if you\'re gonna blame AB when it\'s bad, you gotta acknowledge when it was good.

How bout this? I hearby swear to give AB lots of credit if he starts and wins a playoff game this year :salute:

saintswhodi · 05-03-2005, 10:27 AM

You don\'t have to sell me, I would do the same. But tobias\' question lends to a good point, why is it when people defend AB the \'he led us to our only playoff victory\" speech comes in, but then when you try to assign some blame to him for losses it is the line, and the receivers, and the defense, and the coaching? Either you give the TEAM credit for the playoff win and thus the subsequent mediocrity, or you give AB the credit for leading us to that victory and the subsequent blame for leading us to medicority since. Can\'t be both ways.

baronm · 05-03-2005, 10:30 AM

You don\'t have to sell me, I would do the same. But tobias\' question lends to a good point, why is it when people defend AB the \'he led us to our only playoff victory\" speech comes in, but then when you try to assign some blame to him for losses it is the line, and the receivers, and the defense, and the coaching? Either you give the TEAM credit for the playoff win and thus the subsequent mediocrity, or you give AB the credit for leading us to that victory and the subsequent blame for leading us to medicority since. Can\'t be both ways.

because the people, or persons depending are apologists and cheerleaders of the nth degree for AB--and are being lead by motives that have nothing to do with on the feild expereinces, stats or anything else.

05-03-2005, 09:01 AM	#21
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	...the AB challenge. QB=pitcher--yes, the team behind him can effect his W/L but he should be the focal point of the attack...and give his team the chance for victory....3 and outs a good team does not make...that\'s why I think QB ratings tell alot of the story for QB\'s.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

05-03-2005, 09:30 AM	#22
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	...the AB challenge. A team COULD log 10-11 wins with a mediocre QB, it has certainly been done. But, I would say that if this team logs 10-11 wins, AB will have to have a considerable hand in it, even if Deuce has a really good year. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread the timing of the screwups. It really is weird how AB (and others on this team) have such a knack for dropping a ball, fumbling, etc at the worst possible time. It\'s hard to quantify that, I believe whodi brought up red zone turnovers, which will kill a team. If we were talking about O linemen, stats would be tough. But, with AB, the stats should give a pretty good indicator of the team\'s ultimate success. I think we could all agree that if AB has a year similar to last year, we will not do better than 8-8 unless the Ravens or Steelers come over to handle the other side of the ball for us. I think we could also agree that AB\'s 24-8 year was incredibly efficient if it weren\'t for all the fumbles (most of which were painfully ill timed). I think that\'s why so many of us are so frustrated with him. AB\'s skillset is like a whack-a-mole. Knock one problem down and another one pops up. I would love to see all the moles get whacked this year, but he\'s made a skeptic out of me, that\'s why I started this thread.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-03-2005, 09:35 AM	#23
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	...the AB challenge. So....all the bashers out there. What numbers would AB have to put up for you to say \"whoa, I\'ll lay off\"? Aaron Brooks has claimed he\'s a great QB. He has called himself top 5, and demanded to be paid at a top 5 QB salary. He got it. For me to lay off, he has to be top 5 in at very least ONE relevant passing category (passes to a lineman, underhanded INTs, and throws off of a backfoot do not count). Based on last year\'s numbers, top five in the following categories would be: Yards: 4088 or more Comp %: 66.37% or better TDs: 29 or more INTs: 10 or fewer QB Rating: 98.1 or better Here\'s how Aaron finished last year: Yards: 9th (Delhomme was 7th) Comp %: 24th (Delhomme was 20th) TDs: 11th(tie) (Delhomme was 5th) INTs: 23rd(tie) (Delhomme tied for 20th) QB Rating: 19th (Delhomme was 12th) All BS aside, numbers are just numbers. For me to layoff of AB, he is going to have to a) play consistent football, b) shut up about it until he does, and c) outplay, at least in one or two statistical categories, players we\'ve let go to keep him (e.g. Delhomme, Bulger, Blake...)
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-03-2005, 09:57 AM	#24
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	...the AB challenge. ..hmmm... \"Aaron Brooks lead the Saints to their only playoff win\"... ... is this statement true or false?

05-03-2005, 10:07 AM	#25
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	...the AB challenge. \"Aaron Brooks lead the Saints to their only playoff win\"... True. And you can\'t take that away from him or Haslett. But....how long does that win resonate? It\'s kinda worn off for me. I will give you this. If you watch AB back then vs last year, you would think they were reversed in NFL experience. Maybe that\'s on Mike, because he stifled the progress. Or maybe AB\'s early success just screwed his head up.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

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05-03-2005, 10:10 AM	#26
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	...the AB challenge. here\'s another thing to consider-the NFC was completely awful last year..and we still couldn\'t make it to the playoffs.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954

05-03-2005, 10:12 AM	#27
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	...the AB challenge. I think the point of Tobias\' question yasoon was, if we give credit for AB \"leading\" this team to it\'s only playoff win, then blame should equally be laid at his feet for the losses and subsequent mediocrity of the team. Is that correct tobias? Dude you are so deep sometimes even I get confused.

05-03-2005, 10:23 AM	#28
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	...the AB challenge. Yeah, I wasn\'t sure if that was sarcastic or not. The playoff card will get pulled from time to time Either way, my stance on that is the same. Good year. Good win. AB deserves credit for that, especially since our O was putting points on the board back then. I thought it was the start of something really nice but it is fading fast into NFL history. The credit for that season can go around to the whole team. But if you\'re gonna blame AB when it\'s bad, you gotta acknowledge when it was good. How bout this? I hearby swear to give AB lots of credit if he starts and wins a playoff game this year :salute:
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

05-03-2005, 10:27 AM	#29
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	...the AB challenge. You don\'t have to sell me, I would do the same. But tobias\' question lends to a good point, why is it when people defend AB the \'he led us to our only playoff victory\" speech comes in, but then when you try to assign some blame to him for losses it is the line, and the receivers, and the defense, and the coaching? Either you give the TEAM credit for the playoff win and thus the subsequent mediocrity, or you give AB the credit for leading us to that victory and the subsequent blame for leading us to medicority since. Can\'t be both ways.

05-03-2005, 10:30 AM	#30
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	...the AB challenge. You don\'t have to sell me, I would do the same. But tobias\' question lends to a good point, why is it when people defend AB the \'he led us to our only playoff victory\" speech comes in, but then when you try to assign some blame to him for losses it is the line, and the receivers, and the defense, and the coaching? Either you give the TEAM credit for the playoff win and thus the subsequent mediocrity, or you give AB the credit for leading us to that victory and the subsequent blame for leading us to medicority since. Can\'t be both ways. because the people, or persons depending are apologists and cheerleaders of the nth degree for AB--and are being lead by motives that have nothing to do with on the feild expereinces, stats or anything else.
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954