a couple of questions

patman · 03-03-2003, 09:18 AM

Hi, I am a Patriots fan and new to this board. I dot post smack and I am not looking for arguments just "good" information.

The Pats have some needs and New Orleans seems to have some players that I think would suit those needs.

Is Hand going to be released in June? Is he in the last year of his contract? Are they just waiting to see who they get in the draft before releasing him.

The Saints appear to need more speed at FS, The Pats have the fastest FS in the league and who is a pro bowl level STeamer. Tebuckey Jones. but will have difficulty signing him for less than 3mill a year which is what he wants. They will pay him the tag this year but long term I think they will look to a replacement.
The Saints do not seem to want to keep Turley around in the future and to pay their tackles 10 mill between them. How does a Jones swap for Turley sound?

The benefit to the pats being a solid LT letting Light slide over to guard, The benefit to the saints being that it will allow the saints to fill other needs with draft picks and safety is not a position to play a rookie. thanks for the feedback.

WhoDat · 03-03-2003, 09:52 AM

IT\'s unknown right now whether Hand is going or not, but my guess is more likely so than not. Thae Saints gave him an ultimatum - saying he has to lose weight, get faster, and pley more like he did two years ago. Even so, he\'ll cost the Saints more than $5 mil against the cap next year and I just don\'t think he\'s worth it even if he is playing well. There are some good free agent DTs out there and also in the draft. They\'ll go another way. That being said, I don\'t know if the Pats want Hand. He seems very much past his prime to me.

As for Tebuckey Jones, he would be a huge upgrade for the Saints. I don\'t know if they\'re going to spend the kind of money he will want on that position, but they might. Trading for Turley sounds OK, but it doesn\'t seem likely. This management group doesn\'t seem to like to trade player for player. They apparently like to draft their own talent and shape it themselves... right up until the time when they get really successful. Then we usually cut them due to salary issues.

D_it_up · 03-03-2003, 09:53 AM

Welcome to the boards, patman! Personally, I wouldn\'t mind seeing a Kyle Turley for Tebucky Jones trade, either. We definitely need the help in the secondary, and Jones would be an excellent fill for the posistion. On the other hand, I believe the Saints will have to be reassured that Jones would re-sign with the team. If that were the case, then I think it would be a smart move. Logic would tell me that the Saints will want a high draft pick for Turley instead. That way they can have someone to groom into the system for X amount of years. In a perfect world, the trade would look good, but I don\'t see it being much of a factor.

nocloning · 03-03-2003, 12:18 PM

Both deals - signing Hand if he is released and trading Jones - are unlikely to happen IMHO. DT is an area of need for the Saints, and it has been for the last season partly because of Hand\'s play. I\'m not familiar with who would start at DT in New England, but would Hand be an improvement? Not unless his fitness level increases dramatically in the off-season. The Patriots will - and should - look elsewhere, especially as Hand is still under contract.
\"Personally, I wouldn\'t mind seeing a Kyle Turley for Tebucky Jones trade ...\" Word to that, D_it_up. The problem is when all Saints fans like the trade, are the Patriots maybe getting the short end of the deal? Turley is valued in a trade as a second-rounder, maybe a first-rounder for next year. Tebucky Jones is the franchise player ... would the Patriots let him go for a first-round pick?

pakowitz · 03-03-2003, 04:11 PM

are u guys kidding me? turley for jones? straight up, thats crazy, i would never pull that deal, a free safety in this league isnt that hard to come by, a solid left tackle is, no way would i pull that deal, maybe turley for jones and at least a 3rd round pick,
also, there is no way i would deal turley for anything less then a 1st round pick, and not late 1st round either, im talkin at least mid level, he is young and one of the best at his postion, he can play both right an left tackle and that makes his value even higher

billyh1026 · 03-03-2003, 08:31 PM

Pak, I\'m with you. Straight up trade is nuts. Gimme a reason other than a safety and it\'s a deal. 3rd rnd pick sounds about right and T Buc I\'d go for but not straight up.

patman · 03-04-2003, 06:45 AM

My thought process was that the saints are not going to sign turley to an extension. They would have him for one year and then he would leave without compensation.
They are paying Gandy next year (04) about 5 mill, to play left tackle you are not going to pay 5 mill for him to play RT. You got a 1 for williams for a player that plays an impact position, who had a cap friendly contract. Turley does not. You only got a condtional pick for Roaf and you think someone is going to give a #1 for a player who does not want to be there and the team does not want him? The pats got a mid first for Bledsoe.
TJones will want about 1/2 of what Turley costs in cap room this year, that is money that could be used elsewhere. If Turley was signed for 3 years for 12 mill then you could get a #1 maybe.

WhoDat · 03-04-2003, 09:23 AM

Turley is the best available left Tackle in \"free agency\" and he has the ability to be in the top five in the league. Teams like the Texans and Dolphins really need a good left Tackle. It doesn\'t matter if Turley wants to leave or not. That doesn\'t affect his value. Turley is more valuable that Jones, in my opinion, b/c safeties are more abundant in the league and there are lots of good ones in this year\'s free agent pool.

pakowitz · 03-04-2003, 12:07 PM

even if turley doenst resign, that doesnt mean that the saints will let him just leave, there is always that lil thing called a franchise tag, and the saints would be stupid not to use it, and work out a trade possibly next year, just like the bills are doing wit Peerless Price this year.

but anyway, even if the saints were thinking about trading turley for jones, they still would be stupid to make the trade straight up, can not and will not happen, it would be too lopsided, jones an a 3rd, yes, straight up, no

D_it_up · 03-04-2003, 01:13 PM

I\'m just curious about one thing. Why is Kyle Turley repeatedly being called the best LT in \"free agency\". Turley is neither a restricted nor unrestricted free agent. If he were then the talk wouldn\'t be about trading him, it would be about are the Saints going to match any offers for him. One more quick comment...If Turley wants out of New Orleans, by all means, send him on his way. Let\'s just hope the Saints get equal value out of any deal that is made. We\'re going to be just fine without him. The way his attitude has been lately, we\'ll probably be a helluva lot better off. See ya #68....don\'t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!\"

03-03-2003, 09:18 AM	#1
patman Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36	a couple of questions Hi, I am a Patriots fan and new to this board. I dot post smack and I am not looking for arguments just "good" information. The Pats have some needs and New Orleans seems to have some players that I think would suit those needs. Is Hand going to be released in June? Is he in the last year of his contract? Are they just waiting to see who they get in the draft before releasing him. The Saints appear to need more speed at FS, The Pats have the fastest FS in the league and who is a pro bowl level STeamer. Tebuckey Jones. but will have difficulty signing him for less than 3mill a year which is what he wants. They will pay him the tag this year but long term I think they will look to a replacement. The Saints do not seem to want to keep Turley around in the future and to pay their tackles 10 mill between them. How does a Jones swap for Turley sound? The benefit to the pats being a solid LT letting Light slide over to guard, The benefit to the saints being that it will allow the saints to fill other needs with draft picks and safety is not a position to play a rookie. thanks for the feedback.
patman Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36

03-03-2003, 09:52 AM	#2
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	a couple of questions IT\'s unknown right now whether Hand is going or not, but my guess is more likely so than not. Thae Saints gave him an ultimatum - saying he has to lose weight, get faster, and pley more like he did two years ago. Even so, he\'ll cost the Saints more than $5 mil against the cap next year and I just don\'t think he\'s worth it even if he is playing well. There are some good free agent DTs out there and also in the draft. They\'ll go another way. That being said, I don\'t know if the Pats want Hand. He seems very much past his prime to me. As for Tebuckey Jones, he would be a huge upgrade for the Saints. I don\'t know if they\'re going to spend the kind of money he will want on that position, but they might. Trading for Turley sounds OK, but it doesn\'t seem likely. This management group doesn\'t seem to like to trade player for player. They apparently like to draft their own talent and shape it themselves... right up until the time when they get really successful. Then we usually cut them due to salary issues.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-03-2003, 09:53 AM	#3
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	a couple of questions Welcome to the boards, patman! Personally, I wouldn\'t mind seeing a Kyle Turley for Tebucky Jones trade, either. We definitely need the help in the secondary, and Jones would be an excellent fill for the posistion. On the other hand, I believe the Saints will have to be reassured that Jones would re-sign with the team. If that were the case, then I think it would be a smart move. Logic would tell me that the Saints will want a high draft pick for Turley instead. That way they can have someone to groom into the system for X amount of years. In a perfect world, the trade would look good, but I don\'t see it being much of a factor.
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.

03-03-2003, 12:18 PM	#4
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	a couple of questions Both deals - signing Hand if he is released and trading Jones - are unlikely to happen IMHO. DT is an area of need for the Saints, and it has been for the last season partly because of Hand\'s play. I\'m not familiar with who would start at DT in New England, but would Hand be an improvement? Not unless his fitness level increases dramatically in the off-season. The Patriots will - and should - look elsewhere, especially as Hand is still under contract. \"Personally, I wouldn\'t mind seeing a Kyle Turley for Tebucky Jones trade ...\" Word to that, D_it_up. The problem is when all Saints fans like the trade, are the Patriots maybe getting the short end of the deal? Turley is valued in a trade as a second-rounder, maybe a first-rounder for next year. Tebucky Jones is the franchise player ... would the Patriots let him go for a first-round pick?
nocloning 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 302	\"What is Wal-Mart? Is it like they sell wall stuff?\"

03-03-2003, 04:11 PM	#5
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	a couple of questions are u guys kidding me? turley for jones? straight up, thats crazy, i would never pull that deal, a free safety in this league isnt that hard to come by, a solid left tackle is, no way would i pull that deal, maybe turley for jones and at least a 3rd round pick, also, there is no way i would deal turley for anything less then a 1st round pick, and not late 1st round either, im talkin at least mid level, he is young and one of the best at his postion, he can play both right an left tackle and that makes his value even higher
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03-03-2003, 08:31 PM	#6
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213	a couple of questions Pak, I\'m with you. Straight up trade is nuts. Gimme a reason other than a safety and it\'s a deal. 3rd rnd pick sounds about right and T Buc I\'d go for but not straight up.
billyh1026 100th Post Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 213

03-04-2003, 06:45 AM	#7
patman Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36	a couple of questions My thought process was that the saints are not going to sign turley to an extension. They would have him for one year and then he would leave without compensation. They are paying Gandy next year (04) about 5 mill, to play left tackle you are not going to pay 5 mill for him to play RT. You got a 1 for williams for a player that plays an impact position, who had a cap friendly contract. Turley does not. You only got a condtional pick for Roaf and you think someone is going to give a #1 for a player who does not want to be there and the team does not want him? The pats got a mid first for Bledsoe. TJones will want about 1/2 of what Turley costs in cap room this year, that is money that could be used elsewhere. If Turley was signed for 3 years for 12 mill then you could get a #1 maybe.
patman Registered Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 36

03-04-2003, 09:23 AM	#8
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	a couple of questions Turley is the best available left Tackle in \"free agency\" and he has the ability to be in the top five in the league. Teams like the Texans and Dolphins really need a good left Tackle. It doesn\'t matter if Turley wants to leave or not. That doesn\'t affect his value. Turley is more valuable that Jones, in my opinion, b/c safeties are more abundant in the league and there are lots of good ones in this year\'s free agent pool.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

03-04-2003, 12:07 PM	#9
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	a couple of questions even if turley doenst resign, that doesnt mean that the saints will let him just leave, there is always that lil thing called a franchise tag, and the saints would be stupid not to use it, and work out a trade possibly next year, just like the bills are doing wit Peerless Price this year. but anyway, even if the saints were thinking about trading turley for jones, they still would be stupid to make the trade straight up, can not and will not happen, it would be too lopsided, jones an a 3rd, yes, straight up, no

03-04-2003, 01:13 PM	#10
D_it_up Faqda Falcons Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ruston, Louisiana Posts: 3,465 Blog Entries: 3	a couple of questions I\'m just curious about one thing. Why is Kyle Turley repeatedly being called the best LT in \"free agency\". Turley is neither a restricted nor unrestricted free agent. If he were then the talk wouldn\'t be about trading him, it would be about are the Saints going to match any offers for him. One more quick comment...If Turley wants out of New Orleans, by all means, send him on his way. Let\'s just hope the Saints get equal value out of any deal that is made. We\'re going to be just fine without him. The way his attitude has been lately, we\'ll probably be a helluva lot better off. See ya #68....don\'t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!\"
	People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people.