I’m not sexist

jeanpierre · 09-12-2018, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by WHODATINCA

What is strange to me is the fact that married men would actually benefit from collaborating with women to close the pay gap. And, yet, here in this forum, far from that kind of mutually beneficial collaboration, most of the men here deny the existence of a pay gap.

FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years...

To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ...

Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay, incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports...

And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate someone - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry???

In our department, over 200 associates, about twenty men with all in the same compensation disposition; this included two with seniority over all associates on two floors...

Now, self-employed. Want a job? I make an offer and take it or someone else will; it's what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer...

So, I've seen both sides of it...

Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour...

It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt big-gov bureaucrats to harass folks that have different politics, neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly...

Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status...

That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially...

And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further...

Want to be enlightened and really get to the truth? Read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance - the most honest picture of what's really happening in this country...

AsylumGuido · 09-12-2018, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years...

To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ...

Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay and in incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports...

And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate a company representative - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry???

In our department, there were over 200 associates, about twenty men and we were all in the same compensation disposition; this included two men who had seniority over all other associates on the two floors...

Now, I'm self-employed and if you want a job, I make an offer and you take it or I'm giving someone else the opportunity based on what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer...

So, I've seen both sides of it...

Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour...

It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt government bureaucrats have to harass folks that may not be from the same politics or neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly...

Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status...

That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially...

And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further...

If you want to be enlightened and really get to the truth, then read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance as it it the most honest picture of what is really happening in this country...

LOL. Worked for a hospital owned HMO for 17.5 years and can agree with much of what you say. And I also agree that legislative solutions to the gap (that for some reason some deny) can become a slippery slope. And that is why it is estimated that it may take another 40-50 years for the scale to balance.

And I was waiting for your input as I knew you are an employer. You have confirmed that willingness to work for a given pay is a major factor in hiring (I am assuming all other factors being equal besides gender, right). It is going to take education on both sides of the fence and, yes, maybe degree of nudging legislation that isn't too over the top.

rezburna · 09-14-2018, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years...

To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ...

Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay, incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports...

And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate someone - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry???

In our department, over 200 associates, about twenty men with all in the same compensation disposition; this included two with seniority over all associates on two floors...

Now, self-employed. Want a job? I make an offer and take it or someone else will; it's what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer...

So, I've seen both sides of it...

Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour...

It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt big-gov bureaucrats to harass folks that have different politics, neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly...

Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status...

That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially...

And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further...

Want to be enlightened and really get to the truth? Read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance - the most honest picture of what's really happening in this country...

Fair points. The resentment is misplaced aggression though. Disenfranchised sub-groups aren't made whole through Affirmative Action...at least not mine. Disenfranchised sub groups remained disenfranchised despite Affirmative Action. Institutions and companies tend to meet whatever quota they need to meet to satisfy the requirement for diversity and that's as far as it goes. Socioeconomically, my sub-group owned less than 1% of the land in this country post-abolition. Fast-forward to 2018, we still own less than 1% of the land, and we only account for 2.4% of the nation's wealth, while Hispanics account for 4%, and White people account for over 80%. Economists predict my sub-group to be broke by 2050. We aren't accruing wealth.

It's undeniable classism has been a part of the American structure since the very beginning, and racism as we know it was created to counteract the war against classism that was brewing as the Afrikans and the Irish were rebelling against the way they were being treated by this country (colony at the time). Historically, when these disenfranchised groups join forces to fight against the elites, the elites make concessions for one of the groups and leave the other high and dry. We're the historic odd man out in these situations. If we were to be able to get over this hump together, we could probably make it far more fair for everyone. I just don't see that happening. Well, unless we face an imminent threat to all of our lives. That's the only sure-fire way for people to work together...for the moment at least.

09-12-2018, 04:09 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: I’m not sexist Originally Posted by WHODATINCA What is strange to me is the fact that married men would actually benefit from collaborating with women to close the pay gap. And, yet, here in this forum, far from that kind of mutually beneficial collaboration, most of the men here deny the existence of a pay gap. FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years... To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ... Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay, incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports... And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate someone - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry??? In our department, over 200 associates, about twenty men with all in the same compensation disposition; this included two with seniority over all associates on two floors... Now, self-employed. Want a job? I make an offer and take it or someone else will; it's what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer... So, I've seen both sides of it... Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour... It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt big-gov bureaucrats to harass folks that have different politics, neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly... Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status... That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially... And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further... Want to be enlightened and really get to the truth? Read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance - the most honest picture of what's really happening in this country... saintfan likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

09-12-2018, 04:18 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,574	Re: I’m not sexist Originally Posted by jeanpierre FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years... To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ... Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay and in incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports... And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate a company representative - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry??? In our department, there were over 200 associates, about twenty men and we were all in the same compensation disposition; this included two men who had seniority over all other associates on the two floors... Now, I'm self-employed and if you want a job, I make an offer and you take it or I'm giving someone else the opportunity based on what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer... So, I've seen both sides of it... Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour... It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt government bureaucrats have to harass folks that may not be from the same politics or neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly... Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status... That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially... And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further... If you want to be enlightened and really get to the truth, then read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance as it it the most honest picture of what is really happening in this country... LOL. Worked for a hospital owned HMO for 17.5 years and can agree with much of what you say. And I also agree that legislative solutions to the gap (that for some reason some deny) can become a slippery slope. And that is why it is estimated that it may take another 40-50 years for the scale to balance. And I was waiting for your input as I knew you are an employer. You have confirmed that willingness to work for a given pay is a major factor in hiring (I am assuming all other factors being equal besides gender, right). It is going to take education on both sides of the fence and, yes, maybe degree of nudging legislation that isn't too over the top.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

09-14-2018, 12:03 PM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,022	Re: I’m not sexist Originally Posted by jeanpierre FACT - Worked for an HMO/PPO/TPA for five years... To the ininitiated, it's a womens' world except for one or two roosters in the management circle; a daily grind of territorial cat-fights among rivals dept heads; unnecessary waste of energy that delays accurate claims and benefits resolution ... Anyways, same job title, description, grade; was consistently 15% less in base pay, incentives than my friends, co-workers, even though I had a better attendance record, outworked most in measurable production reports... And when a disgruntled member showed up to berate someone - guess who was sent to the first floor to take the arse-chewing for someone else careless data entry??? In our department, over 200 associates, about twenty men with all in the same compensation disposition; this included two with seniority over all associates on two floors... Now, self-employed. Want a job? I make an offer and take it or someone else will; it's what I'm willing to pay. Have never forced anyone to take the job I offer... So, I've seen both sides of it... Ultimately, here's the slippery slope when you start legislating anything of this kind, what I like to call legislating behaviour... It's another bolt in the quiver for corrupt big-gov bureaucrats to harass folks that have different politics, neighborhood - regulations are never enforced evenly... Now, some believe it is solely based on race or religion or sex when, in truth, all those are happen-stance to the real discriminator - economic status... That is why majority of white males call BS on the other discriminators because most white males also face an equally up-hill challenge when starting out financially... And resent when other "disenfranchised sub-groups" are "made whole" through affirmative action while they are left to play from behind even further... Want to be enlightened and really get to the truth? Read Hillbilly Elegy by J.D. Vance - the most honest picture of what's really happening in this country... Fair points. The resentment is misplaced aggression though. Disenfranchised sub-groups aren't made whole through Affirmative Action...at least not mine. Disenfranchised sub groups remained disenfranchised despite Affirmative Action. Institutions and companies tend to meet whatever quota they need to meet to satisfy the requirement for diversity and that's as far as it goes. Socioeconomically, my sub-group owned less than 1% of the land in this country post-abolition. Fast-forward to 2018, we still own less than 1% of the land, and we only account for 2.4% of the nation's wealth, while Hispanics account for 4%, and White people account for over 80%. Economists predict my sub-group to be broke by 2050. We aren't accruing wealth. It's undeniable classism has been a part of the American structure since the very beginning, and racism as we know it was created to counteract the war against classism that was brewing as the Afrikans and the Irish were rebelling against the way they were being treated by this country (colony at the time). Historically, when these disenfranchised groups join forces to fight against the elites, the elites make concessions for one of the groups and leave the other high and dry. We're the historic odd man out in these situations. If we were to be able to get over this hump together, we could probably make it far more fair for everyone. I just don't see that happening. Well, unless we face an imminent threat to all of our lives. That's the only sure-fire way for people to work together...for the moment at least.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael