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Unpopular Opinions: Drew Brees is most underrated player ever

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by SaintSproles Payton is an offensive genius but a mediocre head coach. Half of Drew's time here is non winning seasons, and that is totally unacceptable. Plus the playoff debacles vs the 49ers and Vikings (and Seahawks for ...

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Old 10-07-2018, 06:54 PM   #1
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Re: Unpopular Opinions: Drew Brees is most underrated player ever

Originally Posted by SaintSproles View Post
Payton is an offensive genius but a mediocre head coach.

Half of Drew's time here is non winning seasons, and that is totally unacceptable.

Plus the playoff debacles vs the 49ers and Vikings (and Seahawks for that matter). What could have been had we invested in defense, special teams, kicking game, etc. But alas, Payton has been overly consumed with having his high flying offense on display and has largely paid the cost with heart wrenching losses due to terrible support for Brees.
I don't know if I would say mediocre.

Payton has the 5th highest winning percentage of active coaches in the league @ .600.

That's good for 35th in the 98 year history of the NFL. And 7 of the coaches ahead of him only coached for 5 years or less.

Of the 4 active coaches with better overall records, only Belichick has a higher playoff winning percentage.

*Min 50 games coached
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:20 PM   #2
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Re: Unpopular Opinions: Drew Brees is most underrated player ever

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint View Post
I don't know if I would say mediocre.

Payton has the 5th highest winning percentage of active coaches in the league @ .600.

That's good for 35th in the 98 year history of the NFL. And 7 of the coaches ahead of him only coached for 5 years or less.

Of the 4 active coaches with better overall records, only Belichick has a higher playoff winning percentage.

*Min 50 games coached

See this is non-sequitur because you have many unique factors to consider here...

First, the Saints franchise history only had a five year run of league respect during the Dome Patrol years and even then that team hadn't won a playoff game...

Second, Tom Benson's age made the old man less volatile than previously and he had his ring unlike other comparable owners (i.e. Bud Adams, Bill Bidwill)...

Third, the Payton-era team, despite only six winning seasons in eleven years, has an electric offense and subsequent television and stadium draw...

But what ensured Payton's tenure here was when the league tried to tell Benson how to run his franchise (i.e. fire Payton) - that ensured Payton's tenure...

That is why the only comparison I can see that you could find in NFL history was Don Shula, his '72 Dolphins, and riding out another twenty years with mediocre football...

...and that included an unlikely one year tease appearance in the Superbowl with Marino vs a dominant 49ers team and consuming Marino's career with mediocre team effort...

It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:36 AM   #3
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Re: Unpopular Opinions: Drew Brees is most underrated player ever

Originally Posted by jeanpierre View Post

See this is non-sequitur because you have many unique factors to consider here...

First, the Saints franchise history only had a five year run of league respect during the Dome Patrol years and even then that team hadn't won a playoff game...

Second, Tom Benson's age made the old man less volatile than previously and he had his ring unlike other comparable owners (i.e. Bud Adams, Bill Bidwill)...

Third, the Payton-era team, despite only six winning seasons in eleven years, has an electric offense and subsequent television and stadium draw...

But what ensured Payton's tenure here was when the league tried to tell Benson how to run his franchise (i.e. fire Payton) - that ensured Payton's tenure...

That is why the only comparison I can see that you could find in NFL history was Don Shula, his '72 Dolphins, and riding out another twenty years with mediocre football...

...and that included an unlikely one year tease appearance in the Superbowl with Marino vs a dominant 49ers team and consuming Marino's career with mediocre team effort...
I included the 5 year statement because a coach with 5 years or less would be more likely have the same roster, or at least the same core group of players, for his entire tenure and less likely to go through a "rebuilding" process. For example Red Miller and Barry Switzer have a better winning percentages than Payton but they inherited playoff caliber teams yet the teams got progressively worse each of the four years they were coaching.

But even if you exclude overall historical ranking wouldn't you still consider the 5th best winning percentage of active coaches conclusive evidence of being better than mediocre?

Only 6 winning seasons out of 11, is also only 4 losing seasons out of 11. And of those 4 losing seasons, the Saints have not finished worse than one game below .500.

And if you're saying Payton is riding out years with mediocre football then I have to completely disagree. Payton's record since winning the Superbowl is .603, which again, is still the 5th best winning percentage among active coaches. And in the top 20 in the entire Super Bowl era.

(And not to pick nits, but after winning the Super Bowl in 72, the Dolphins repeated in 73 and went back to the Super Bowl in 82 and 84. And in his 26 years as head coach of the Dolphins, they only had 2 losing seasons, in 76 and 88. Only Bill Belichick has a higher winning percentage in the Super Bowl era, ((again 5 season or more))
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:24 AM   #4
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Re: Unpopular Opinions: Drew Brees is most underrated player ever

Not counting Payton's suspended season (which was still his staff, his players), he was still 4 winning seasons: 3 losing seasons, since...

And my point was to emphasize what Payton, not only the HC, but de facto general manager hadn't done since winning the Superbowl...

The other point of emphasis was that unlike other coaches, markets, Payton has been able to enjoy an unusually long tenure because of the Saints prior historical futility...

Even Tom Coughlin, winning Two (2) Superbowls still found being called for dismissal by NYG media, fans and even players alike...

Whereas, Payton was going no where because of the Superbowl success AND because the league tried to tell Benson how to run his team by firing Payton...

It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...
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