Honoring Contracts

WhoDat · 06-23-2005, 12:30 PM

LMAO.

True, but I guess it could be worse. BnB told me that he dances at a place in Dallas called the Manhole. Poor guy - truckers can get handsy.

saintswhodi · 06-23-2005, 12:33 PM

Then I guess you have the better gig, although BNB may bring home more bread, and passion marks.

saintfan · 06-23-2005, 02:31 PM

So then, what do you guys think about the way an arbitrator is used in Major League Baseball?

WhoDat · 06-23-2005, 10:01 PM

I actually like arbitration in baseball. I like anything that keeps the sides talking and allows for modifications of a deal. It seems very similar to the franchise tag to me, but I'm admitedly not very familiar with the way arbitration works in baseball.

ScottyRo · 06-23-2005, 10:31 PM

I don't know about arbitration in baseball, either.

I found this statement amusing but forgot to include it inmy earlier post:

Come on Danno, that's semantics.

I'm not trying to pick on you Whodi, but it just struck me as funny being in a contracts discussion of which semantics is the very essence. The slightest change in the use of one word over another can cause a total shift in how a contract will be viewed and enforced. That cannot be dismissed when talking contracts.

saintswhodi · 06-24-2005, 01:03 AM

I'm not trying to pick on you Whodi, but it just struck me as funny being in a contracts discussion of which semantics is the very essence. The slightest change in the use of one word over another can cause a total shift in how a contract will be viewed and enforced. That cannot be dismissed when talking contracts.

Then you misunderstood why I used the word. Danno said he has NEVER seen a team break a contract cause they have the right to release IN THE CONTRACT. He said he has seen many players break contracts. I said I doubt there is release language in the contract itself except possibly referring back to the CBA, which holds the specific language, and that it applies to both sides, meaning a player can withhold his services if he feels he is underpaid. Danno then came back and said IF it's in the contract and a player is released, it is not dishonring the contract still, whether in the CBA or the contract. I said it THAT was semantics because he tried to carry his initial thought into the release wording being in the CBA or the contract, and it didn't fit with the original premisse. IT had nothing to do with what was IN the contracts at that point, but with his reasoning for saying teams were not dishonoring contracts.

WhoDat · 06-24-2005, 09:42 AM

But Whodi, even if there is no langauge granting the team a right to release a player without warning (which I think there probably is in every player's contract, regardless of what the CBA might say), if the CBA governs NFL contracts and allows a team to release a player, and they exercise that right and terminate the agreement, that isn't dishonoring a contract. It's "cancelling" a contract by executing a condition of the contract.

saintswhodi · 06-24-2005, 03:56 PM

Again, kinda off center of my point. MY argument was based on Danno saying he has never seen a team dishonor a contract, but he has seen many players do so. My point in bringing the CBA in is that if he uses that argument for team, then a player has never "dishonored" a contract either since he has the right to seek remedy for a contract he feels is unfair due to the CBA. I am arguing Danno's assertion, I am not really too concerned with getting into a technical dispute of the word dishonoring. I used dishonor cause Danno used it.

WhoDat · 06-24-2005, 04:03 PM

Ah, I see. The CBA allows a player to holdout, and therefore players don't "dishonor" contracts by holding out? Right?

ScottyRo · 06-24-2005, 05:19 PM

The CBA is freakishly long. I just started reading it. After I started I decided to read the standard player contract first. I'm not sure yet whether or not the CBA refers to holdouts, but the standard player contract states the following in reference to the teams' right to terminate contracts:

Player understands that he is competing with other players for a position on Club's roster within the applicable player limits. If at any time, in the sole judgment of Club, Player's skill or performance has been unsatisfactory as compared with that of other players competing for positions on Club's roster, or if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract. In addition, during the period any salary cap is legally in effect, this contract may be terminated if, in Club's opinion, Player is anticipated to make less of a contribution to Club's ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom Club intends to sign or attempts to sign, or another player or players who is or are already on Club's roster, and for whom Club needs room.

06-23-2005, 12:30 PM	#21
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	LMAO. True, but I guess it could be worse. BnB told me that he dances at a place in Dallas called the Manhole. Poor guy - truckers can get handsy.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-23-2005, 10:01 PM	#24
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	I actually like arbitration in baseball. I like anything that keeps the sides talking and allows for modifications of a deal. It seems very similar to the franchise tag to me, but I'm admitedly not very familiar with the way arbitration works in baseball.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-23-2005, 10:31 PM	#25
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	I don't know about arbitration in baseball, either. I found this statement amusing but forgot to include it inmy earlier post: Come on Danno, that's semantics. I'm not trying to pick on you Whodi, but it just struck me as funny being in a contracts discussion of which semantics is the very essence. The slightest change in the use of one word over another can cause a total shift in how a contract will be viewed and enforced. That cannot be dismissed when talking contracts.

06-24-2005, 09:42 AM	#27
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	But Whodi, even if there is no langauge granting the team a right to release a player without warning (which I think there probably is in every player's contract, regardless of what the CBA might say), if the CBA governs NFL contracts and allows a team to release a player, and they exercise that right and terminate the agreement, that isn't dishonoring a contract. It's "cancelling" a contract by executing a condition of the contract.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

06-24-2005, 04:03 PM	#29
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Ah, I see. The CBA allows a player to holdout, and therefore players don't "dishonor" contracts by holding out? Right?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

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06-23-2005, 12:33 PM	#22
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Then I guess you have the better gig, although BNB may bring home more bread, and passion marks.

06-23-2005, 02:31 PM	#23
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	So then, what do you guys think about the way an arbitrator is used in Major League Baseball?

06-24-2005, 01:03 AM	#26
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I'm not trying to pick on you Whodi, but it just struck me as funny being in a contracts discussion of which semantics is the very essence. The slightest change in the use of one word over another can cause a total shift in how a contract will be viewed and enforced. That cannot be dismissed when talking contracts. Then you misunderstood why I used the word. Danno said he has NEVER seen a team break a contract cause they have the right to release IN THE CONTRACT. He said he has seen many players break contracts. I said I doubt there is release language in the contract itself except possibly referring back to the CBA, which holds the specific language, and that it applies to both sides, meaning a player can withhold his services if he feels he is underpaid. Danno then came back and said IF it's in the contract and a player is released, it is not dishonring the contract still, whether in the CBA or the contract. I said it THAT was semantics because he tried to carry his initial thought into the release wording being in the CBA or the contract, and it didn't fit with the original premisse. IT had nothing to do with what was IN the contracts at that point, but with his reasoning for saying teams were not dishonoring contracts.

06-24-2005, 03:56 PM	#28
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Again, kinda off center of my point. MY argument was based on Danno saying he has never seen a team dishonor a contract, but he has seen many players do so. My point in bringing the CBA in is that if he uses that argument for team, then a player has never "dishonored" a contract either since he has the right to seek remedy for a contract he feels is unfair due to the CBA. I am arguing Danno's assertion, I am not really too concerned with getting into a technical dispute of the word dishonoring. I used dishonor cause Danno used it.

06-24-2005, 05:19 PM	#30
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	The CBA is freakishly long. I just started reading it. After I started I decided to read the standard player contract first. I'm not sure yet whether or not the CBA refers to holdouts, but the standard player contract states the following in reference to the teams' right to terminate contracts: Player understands that he is competing with other players for a position on Club's roster within the applicable player limits. If at any time, in the sole judgment of Club, Player's skill or performance has been unsatisfactory as compared with that of other players competing for positions on Club's roster, or if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract. In addition, during the period any salary cap is legally in effect, this contract may be terminated if, in Club's opinion, Player is anticipated to make less of a contribution to Club's ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom Club intends to sign or attempts to sign, or another player or players who is or are already on Club's roster, and for whom Club needs room.