Brees is done

K Major · 11-13-2019, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by voodooido

You may want to watch the game again. TA and Clapp got destroyed all game. 95% of the pressures came from those two. There is no was TA is a top LT.

He is voodooido. You can count the bad games with TA on one hand. Armstead along with Ramz have locked up premier pass rushers all season, but the sky is now falling after the ATL game? No excuses on the flu bug but it was painfully obvious that he was not himself. He's elite at LT.

It's football. Good teams can lose on any given Sunday.

Meanwhile Clapp is a "back up" for a reason.

AsylumGuido · 11-13-2019, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by voodooido

You may want to watch the game again. TA and Clapp got destroyed all game. 95% of the pressures came from those two. There is no was TA is a top LT.

Armstead is absolutely an elite left tackle. What we saw on Sunday was a player that had missed practice leading into the game because of fighting the flu. If you have ever had the flu you would remember how much it can take out of you. It takes several days to get back to normal. He probably shouldn't have even been in the lineup, but the only other option would have been to swing Peat out to tackle and put Clapp at LG and that would have probably been worse.

K Major · 11-13-2019, 11:44 AM

IDK,

People see Michael Jordan scoring 50 points in a playoff game while recovering from the flu and expect that from every player in any sport.

Tough crowd.

73Saint · 11-13-2019, 11:53 AM

The flu can easily make one of shell of himself.

yungbreesus · 11-13-2019, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by voodooido

I feel like I lost 10 iq points just reading this thread. Drew had 0 time to throw and still went for almost 300. TA needs traded or released in the offseason and peat is a lot better than we thought. Peat goes down and all hell broke loose. Drew has 3 more good years.

Peat wasn't great but some of those sacks came on the 6th and even 7th second after the snap. Situational awareness. If you know your LG is getting whooped, after 4 seconds you need to get out of the pocket or throw the ball away, or attempt a pass. this game felt like drew trying to get back all the stats he missed while he was out and sean being totally on board with it with the playcalling.

no doubt Peat is the weakest link and some of those sacks were him getting just totally blown off the line, but drew played terribly. if he comes out this sunday and doesn't check out of the run plays and runs the offense in a sensible manner, none of this matters. if he has another performance like he did against atlanta, it's panic mode.

AsylumGuido · 11-13-2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by yungbreesus

Peat wasn't great but some of those sacks came on the 6th and even 7th second after the snap. Situational awareness. If you know your LG is getting whooped, after 4 seconds you need to get out of the pocket or throw the ball away, or attempt a pass. this game felt like drew trying to get back all the stats he missed while he was out and sean being totally on board with it with the playcalling.

no doubt Peat is the weakest link and some of those sacks were him getting just totally blown off the line, but drew played terribly. if he comes out this sunday and doesn't check out of the run plays and runs the offense in a sensible manner, none of this matters. if he has another performance like he did against atlanta, it's panic mode.

Sorry, dude, but this is asinine. If you seriously believe that Brees and/or Payton had any thoughts whatsoever about any personal stat in this scenario then you know nothing about the game of football. The Saints got down big when they were trying to run the ball on offense and the defense kept making drive extending mistakes. Going to the air was forced by the game situation and Atlanta's defense. This isn't fantasy football.

And as for the time holding the ball on the six sacks ... watch the video of all six sacks.

Sack 1: 4 sec
Sack 2: 4 sec
Sack 3: 4 sec
Sack 4: 6 sec
Sack 5: 3 sec
Sack 6: 3 sec

Every sack by the Falcons on Drew Brees \| Week 10 - YouTube

Only ONE of those sacks came in over FOUR seconds. That 4th sack came on the sixth second and was with eight players in coverage.

K Major · 11-13-2019, 03:19 PM

"We're on to Tampa".

They are teeing it off at high noon fellas.

darksoul35 · 11-13-2019, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

An offensive line acts as a unit. As an offensive lineman you are dependent upon the man beside you. Peat had to have known that Armstead wasn't able to pull his weight yesterday. Those two sacks may have been a by-product of the mistrust. Peat's arm injury could have also come from trying to do too much in protection.

Considering the QB of the offensive line is a rookie I think they have been great this year

yungbreesus · 11-14-2019, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Sorry, dude, but this is asinine. If you seriously believe that Brees and/or Payton had any thoughts whatsoever about any personal stat in this scenario then you know nothing about the game of football. The Saints got down big when they were trying to run the ball on offense and the defense kept making drive extending mistakes. Going to the air was forced by the game situation and Atlanta's defense. This isn't fantasy football.

And as for the time holding the ball on the six sacks ... watch the video of all six sacks.

Sack 1: 4 sec
Sack 2: 4 sec
Sack 3: 4 sec
Sack 4: 6 sec
Sack 5: 3 sec
Sack 6: 3 sec

Every sack by the Falcons on Drew Brees | Week 10 - YouTube

Only ONE of those sacks came in over FOUR seconds. That 4th sack came on the sixth second and was with eight players in coverage.

the ol "you know nothing about football". very alpha. anyway, my point still stands that if you see your o-line getting whooped consistently in pass pro then adjusting to get the ball out quicker makes sense, as well as running the ball to maybe give the line a chance to move forward instead of backwards. peeling out of the pocket to extend plays is also effective (see almost every passing play from teams like seattle, green bay).

as far the saints "getting down big" when they ran the ball, this isn't true. they abandoned the run pretty much at the top of the 2nd quarter. being down 3 then 7 points is not "getting down big". that's the normal ebbs and flows of a close game, which divisional games always are. there are so many stats pointing to how successful this team is when they commit to the run. it's pretty much what got them through the teddy games. hell, we were coming up with nicknames for the RB combo for 2 years. to even think that it would be prudent to stop running the ball at any point before the 4th quarter of that game is, as you so eloquently put it, asinine.

and look, i know it touches a nerve for saints fans who don't want to hear that drew and sean might be a little over confident about the passing game. if you really don't think there's an element of that, then please explain to me what the hell they were doing on the final drive? hell the last 2 drives. absolutely no urgency to get to the line and snap the ball. they basically ran the clock out down 3 scores and set up a red zone scenario where they risked injury just to try to force a TD to michael thomas, who almost got concussed for garbage points. you seem pretty arrogant about your opinions so i'm not gonna waste my time getting in a back and forth. yeah the o-line stunk, but the option to run and risk less sacks was there pretty much the entire game, as well as other options that you see teams resort to all the time when they're trying to get their offense going.

AsylumGuido · 11-14-2019, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by yungbreesus

the ol "you know nothing about football". very alpha. anyway, my point still stands that if you see your o-line getting whooped consistently in pass pro then adjusting to get the ball out quicker makes sense, as well as running the ball to maybe give the line a chance to move forward instead of backwards. peeling out of the pocket to extend plays is also effective (see almost every passing play from teams like seattle, green bay).

as far the saints "getting down big" when they ran the ball, this isn't true. they abandoned the run pretty much at the top of the 2nd quarter. being down 3 then 7 points is not "getting down big". that's the normal ebbs and flows of a close game, which divisional games always are. there are so many stats pointing to how successful this team is when they commit to the run. it's pretty much what got them through the teddy games. hell, we were coming up with nicknames for the RB combo for 2 years. to even think that it would be prudent to stop running the ball at any point before the 4th quarter of that game is, as you so eloquently put it, asinine.

and look, i know it touches a nerve for saints fans who don't want to hear that drew and sean might be a little over confident about the passing game. if you really don't think there's an element of that, then please explain to me what the hell they were doing on the final drive? hell the last 2 drives. absolutely no urgency to get to the line and snap the ball. they basically ran the clock out down 3 scores and set up a red zone scenario where they risked injury just to try to force a TD to michael thomas, who almost got concussed for garbage points. you seem pretty arrogant about your opinions so i'm not gonna waste my time getting in a back and forth. yeah the o-line stunk, but the option to run and risk less sacks was there pretty much the entire game, as well as other options that you see teams resort to all the time when they're trying to get their offense going.

I see that you abandoned the whole premise with which I had the issue ... the implication that Brees and Payton were only passing the ball to pad Brees' personal stats. THAT is what I was calling asinine.

And by the time they truly abandoned the running game they were behind by multiple scores. The Falcons were stacking the box. The left side of the line could not function at all, for whatever reason. Thomas was the only player able to gain positive yards. Yes, they could have continued running the ball into the teeth of that defense knowing full well that each play would be doomed based upon the defensive alignment. Offensive playcalling is based upon the defensive look. Atlanta was selling out to take away the run and daring us to pass the ball knowing full well that our offensive line was having major issues protecting Brees with even the minimal rush.

I have heard fans call into Moving the Chains on NFL Radio on several occasions over the years with your very same argument claiming their coach stupidly abandoned the run. I gave you the reply that they always give the caller. You cannot continue to attempt to run the ball when the defense is overloading to take it away. It is futile.

I also see that you ignored the fact that Brees did not have all day to throw the ball as you claimed, but actually had almost no time to get rid of the ball on all but one occasion. Peeling out of the pocket like you suggest can work to a degree for teams like Seattle and Green Bay because they have far more mobile QB's like Wilson and Rodgers and far more competent WR's to get into the open. That is not Brees' game, nor is it even Bridgewater's game.

11-13-2019, 11:39 AM	#111
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by voodooido You may want to watch the game again. TA and Clapp got destroyed all game. 95% of the pressures came from those two. There is no was TA is a top LT. He is voodooido. You can count the bad games with TA on one hand. Armstead along with Ramz have locked up premier pass rushers all season, but the sky is now falling after the ATL game? No excuses on the flu bug but it was painfully obvious that he was not himself. He's elite at LT. It's football. Good teams can lose on any given Sunday. Meanwhile Clapp is a "back up" for a reason. Rsanders24, ChrisXVI and Audiotom like this.

11-13-2019, 11:43 AM	#112
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,215	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by voodooido You may want to watch the game again. TA and Clapp got destroyed all game. 95% of the pressures came from those two. There is no was TA is a top LT. Armstead is absolutely an elite left tackle. What we saw on Sunday was a player that had missed practice leading into the game because of fighting the flu. If you have ever had the flu you would remember how much it can take out of you. It takes several days to get back to normal. He probably shouldn't have even been in the lineup, but the only other option would have been to swing Peat out to tackle and put Clapp at LG and that would have probably been worse. Rsanders24, 73Saint and st thomas like this.

11-13-2019, 11:44 AM	#113
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Brees is done IDK, People see Michael Jordan scoring 50 points in a playoff game while recovering from the flu and expect that from every player in any sport. Tough crowd. 73Saint, SaintsBro, frydaddy and 1 others like this.

11-13-2019, 11:53 AM	#114
73Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: NOLA Posts: 2,336	Re: Brees is done The flu can easily make one of shell of himself.

11-13-2019, 12:21 PM	#115
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by voodooido I feel like I lost 10 iq points just reading this thread. Drew had 0 time to throw and still went for almost 300. TA needs traded or released in the offseason and peat is a lot better than we thought. Peat goes down and all hell broke loose. Drew has 3 more good years. Peat wasn't great but some of those sacks came on the 6th and even 7th second after the snap. Situational awareness. If you know your LG is getting whooped, after 4 seconds you need to get out of the pocket or throw the ball away, or attempt a pass. this game felt like drew trying to get back all the stats he missed while he was out and sean being totally on board with it with the playcalling. no doubt Peat is the weakest link and some of those sacks were him getting just totally blown off the line, but drew played terribly. if he comes out this sunday and doesn't check out of the run plays and runs the offense in a sensible manner, none of this matters. if he has another performance like he did against atlanta, it's panic mode.
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56

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11-13-2019, 03:19 PM	#117
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Brees is done "We're on to Tampa". They are teeing it off at high noon fellas.

11-13-2019, 04:36 PM	#118
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by AsylumGuido An offensive line acts as a unit. As an offensive lineman you are dependent upon the man beside you. Peat had to have known that Armstead wasn't able to pull his weight yesterday. Those two sacks may have been a by-product of the mistrust. Peat's arm injury could have also come from trying to do too much in protection. Considering the QB of the offensive line is a rookie I think they have been great this year SaintsBro and SaintGnome like this.
darksoul35 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 1,041

11-14-2019, 08:29 AM	#119
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Sorry, dude, but this is asinine. If you seriously believe that Brees and/or Payton had any thoughts whatsoever about any personal stat in this scenario then you know nothing about the game of football. The Saints got down big when they were trying to run the ball on offense and the defense kept making drive extending mistakes. Going to the air was forced by the game situation and Atlanta's defense. This isn't fantasy football. And as for the time holding the ball on the six sacks ... watch the video of all six sacks. Sack 1: 4 sec Sack 2: 4 sec Sack 3: 4 sec Sack 4: 6 sec Sack 5: 3 sec Sack 6: 3 sec Every sack by the Falcons on Drew Brees \| Week 10 - YouTube Only ONE of those sacks came in over FOUR seconds. That 4th sack came on the sixth second and was with eight players in coverage. the ol "you know nothing about football". very alpha. anyway, my point still stands that if you see your o-line getting whooped consistently in pass pro then adjusting to get the ball out quicker makes sense, as well as running the ball to maybe give the line a chance to move forward instead of backwards. peeling out of the pocket to extend plays is also effective (see almost every passing play from teams like seattle, green bay). as far the saints "getting down big" when they ran the ball, this isn't true. they abandoned the run pretty much at the top of the 2nd quarter. being down 3 then 7 points is not "getting down big". that's the normal ebbs and flows of a close game, which divisional games always are. there are so many stats pointing to how successful this team is when they commit to the run. it's pretty much what got them through the teddy games. hell, we were coming up with nicknames for the RB combo for 2 years. to even think that it would be prudent to stop running the ball at any point before the 4th quarter of that game is, as you so eloquently put it, asinine. and look, i know it touches a nerve for saints fans who don't want to hear that drew and sean might be a little over confident about the passing game. if you really don't think there's an element of that, then please explain to me what the hell they were doing on the final drive? hell the last 2 drives. absolutely no urgency to get to the line and snap the ball. they basically ran the clock out down 3 scores and set up a red zone scenario where they risked injury just to try to force a TD to michael thomas, who almost got concussed for garbage points. you seem pretty arrogant about your opinions so i'm not gonna waste my time getting in a back and forth. yeah the o-line stunk, but the option to run and risk less sacks was there pretty much the entire game, as well as other options that you see teams resort to all the time when they're trying to get their offense going.
yungbreesus Registered Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 56

11-14-2019, 09:06 AM	#120
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,215	Re: Brees is done Originally Posted by yungbreesus the ol "you know nothing about football". very alpha. anyway, my point still stands that if you see your o-line getting whooped consistently in pass pro then adjusting to get the ball out quicker makes sense, as well as running the ball to maybe give the line a chance to move forward instead of backwards. peeling out of the pocket to extend plays is also effective (see almost every passing play from teams like seattle, green bay). as far the saints "getting down big" when they ran the ball, this isn't true. they abandoned the run pretty much at the top of the 2nd quarter. being down 3 then 7 points is not "getting down big". that's the normal ebbs and flows of a close game, which divisional games always are. there are so many stats pointing to how successful this team is when they commit to the run. it's pretty much what got them through the teddy games. hell, we were coming up with nicknames for the RB combo for 2 years. to even think that it would be prudent to stop running the ball at any point before the 4th quarter of that game is, as you so eloquently put it, asinine. and look, i know it touches a nerve for saints fans who don't want to hear that drew and sean might be a little over confident about the passing game. if you really don't think there's an element of that, then please explain to me what the hell they were doing on the final drive? hell the last 2 drives. absolutely no urgency to get to the line and snap the ball. they basically ran the clock out down 3 scores and set up a red zone scenario where they risked injury just to try to force a TD to michael thomas, who almost got concussed for garbage points. you seem pretty arrogant about your opinions so i'm not gonna waste my time getting in a back and forth. yeah the o-line stunk, but the option to run and risk less sacks was there pretty much the entire game, as well as other options that you see teams resort to all the time when they're trying to get their offense going. I see that you abandoned the whole premise with which I had the issue ... the implication that Brees and Payton were only passing the ball to pad Brees' personal stats. THAT is what I was calling asinine. And by the time they truly abandoned the running game they were behind by multiple scores. The Falcons were stacking the box. The left side of the line could not function at all, for whatever reason. Thomas was the only player able to gain positive yards. Yes, they could have continued running the ball into the teeth of that defense knowing full well that each play would be doomed based upon the defensive alignment. Offensive playcalling is based upon the defensive look. Atlanta was selling out to take away the run and daring us to pass the ball knowing full well that our offensive line was having major issues protecting Brees with even the minimal rush. I have heard fans call into Moving the Chains on NFL Radio on several occasions over the years with your very same argument claiming their coach stupidly abandoned the run. I gave you the reply that they always give the caller. You cannot continue to attempt to run the ball when the defense is overloading to take it away. It is futile. I also see that you ignored the fact that Brees did not have all day to throw the ball as you claimed, but actually had almost no time to get rid of the ball on all but one occasion. Peeling out of the pocket like you suggest can work to a degree for teams like Seattle and Green Bay because they have far more mobile QB's like Wilson and Rodgers and far more competent WR's to get into the open. That is not Brees' game, nor is it even Bridgewater's game.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill