Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints?

burningmetal · 11-27-2019, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Garry42

I agree with most everything said in this video, with the exception that the review of PI was instituted FOR the Saints. The debacle last year was against the Saints, but the rule is for the benefit of the entire league. Having said that, it hasn't worked out as envisioned and requires a lot more refining before it becomes effective. It is still entirely up to the discretion of one person that is far from neutral.

I agree that it isn't "for" the Saints, but I think Riveron sees this as somehow being an "unfair overreaction" to what happened to the Saints, and how THEY reacted to it, and therefore the Saints have a target on their backs.

I also think that there isn't any refining that needs to be done, as it will always be a judgement call, no matter what. The idea of replay is to give the refs a clear view, in slow-motion, to make BETTER judgement calls. They are refusing to overturn some pretty obvious calls, or non calls. Al Riveron has set an arbitrary standard that is so high for what is needed to overturn these calls, that the rule has basically been negated.

spkb25 · 11-27-2019, 09:39 AM

The refs, no. RG...hell yes

dam1953 · 11-27-2019, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by st thomas

These dummy dum asre flag happy biotches need to be put under harsher penalties just like the players . Hit um were it hurts there pockets.there flags need to be reviewed by someone out the of the button pushers of the NFL. They throw a fantom flag and a fine should stop all this horse shiiit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I like this concept a ton. Have an arbitration committee of non-players, non-owners, non-refs review questionable calls. Then start deducting from their salaries on a prorated scale. The more calls a ref blows the more he's fined per bad call. Blow too many and you're suspended for a game. Blow even more and you're suspended for the season. You could make it like points on your driving record with some missed calls worth more points than others.

vpheughan · 11-27-2019, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

People keep saying this.

Yes, he's technically an employee of the owners, but do you truly believe the owners are all out to get the Saints? Why wouldn't the 31 other owners collude to take down Robert Kraft and the Patriots, after nearly two full decades of them making the playoffs in all but two seasons, which were 9 and 11 win seasons?

There is a known history between Goodell and the Saints. What happened to the Saints in the NFCCG last year, and the reaction it got, caused this new rule that is SUPPOSED to be in place to review pass interference. Al Riveron appears to have taken exception to this rule, and then there appeared to be a reversal to that exception when it involved the Saints on Sunday. To the detriment of the Saints.

Who has the power to do something about Riveron's blatant refusal to properly administer fair reviews on PI calls or no calls? Roger Goodell. He's not doing anything. Because he is spineless.

The Bengals are the only team who did not vote FOR reviewing pass interference. So if the owners were in favor of this, why would you believe they are in favor of the refs STILL not getting the calls right? This falls directly at the feet of Goodell and Riveron, but mainly Goodell because he can do something about this and he has done nothing. So I don't buy into this "Goodell is a puppet for the owners" talk. He might be a puppet in some ways, but he's mostly a dictator.

Good Owner - Bad Owner.

Why did Goodell get extended?

Wouldn't look "Right" if all the "Votes" were unanimous would it?

There may be some Owners who actually don't like what's transpiring but why the deafening silence from them?

Are they blind to what is going on?

Ultimately ALL THE OWNERS make $$$$$$$$$

Didn't Jurrah come out against the extension of Goodell and tried to rally enough owners to oust him?

Why are the Cowboys worth $5 Billion dollars? (up 4% from 2018)

The Dude · 11-27-2019, 12:07 PM

It’s not just the penalties, it’s the timing of the penalties. Any time the Saints make a play that can either pretty much put the game away or give us a huge momentum shift a flag will come out.

SmashMouth · 11-27-2019, 12:31 PM

Does college do it right on reviews?

Rugby Saint II · 11-27-2019, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

It’s not just the penalties, it’s the timing of the penalties. Any time the Saints make a play that can either pretty much put the game away or give us a huge momentum shift a flag will come out.

Therein lies the problem. It's the timing of the flags that is so questionable. In rugby we referees have a saying "he thinks there's an infringement on every play". We judge the call whether it is relevant or not to the play. If it wasn't a benefit to the offending team we will let it pass unless it is egregious.

The referees need to be a separate entity under the NFL umbrella like in rugby. They need vigorous training and a complete review of the referees match. We have that in rugby but it's called kangaroo court. There have been several good suggestions about how to review and punish the referees and I agree with them entirely. Something has to be done. Even the casual observer can see the uneven distribution of flags.

burningmetal · 11-27-2019, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by vpheughan

Good Owner - Bad Owner.

Why did Goodell get extended?

Wouldn't look "Right" if all the "Votes" were unanimous would it?

There may be some Owners who actually don't like what's transpiring but why the deafening silence from them?

Are they blind to what is going on?

Ultimately ALL THE OWNERS make $$$$$$$$$

Didn't Jurrah come out against the extension of Goodell and tried to rally enough owners to oust him?

Why are the Cowboys worth $5 Billion dollars? (up 4% from 2018)

Respectfully, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the issue we're discussing. And I don't know what you mean when you say it wouldn't look "right" if all the votes were unanimous. In what way would it not look right? If 31 owners were in favor of it, what difference would one more have made? I really have no idea what you're trying to get at there.

Why are the owners silent? They usually are. Jerry is an exception to the rule. As long as they are making money, owners don't really care about discussing issues unless their own team gets screwed in an obviously disproportionate way.

The owners are idiots for extending Goodell. I've written about my opinions on that at length. As I said, they don't seem to care about anything as long as they are making money. They are too ignorant to see that their brand is being tarnished, because they are under the false impression that their league is invincible.

But there is a difference between owners being ignorant or apathetic to what is happening, and them deliberately tampering with the outcome of games. In the case of Roger Goodell, he has had an ax to grind with the Saints since "bountygate". The Saints didn't answer to master Goodell in a manner that he felt was befitting of his majesty in the years leading up to that sham, and so he made an example of them, going so far as to fabricate evidence against them.

The owners, collectively, have no reason to hold any animosity toward the Saints. If it's all about money, and it is, then why damage any of your teams? You don't. But ever since Roger took over as commissioner, he's been on a mission to show that he's in total control. He's a tyrant. But, ironically, the league has become less disciplined in all areas since his reign began.

Back to the Al Riveron issue with his out of control officials, and his unwillingness to hold them accountable; this is not something the owners want to deal with. They clearly don't like to be bothered, unless their name is Jerry Jones. But Goodell should be holding Riveron accountable. However, as always, he would rather kick the can down the road, than admit there is a problem. Especially when it concerns the Saints, it seems.

Barry from MS · 11-27-2019, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by SmashMouth

Does college do it right on reviews?

Yes. And it seems way quicker on most calls. NFL refs sit in congressional debate on every call and review.

It's frustrating to watch this garbage anymore. Especially when there seems to be overwhelming evidence of refball being used to sway outcomes. WWE with helmets & shoulder pads.

neugey · 11-27-2019, 01:55 PM

Like I said in another thread, NOTHING will change until someone blows the whistle and a Donaghy-level scandal is actually exposed. NBA got their act together pretty quickly and cleaned up their officiating system quite nicely once the entire league was in jeopardy and their feet were held to the fire. The obstruction by the NFL refs escalates greatly with every season, just like it had in the NBA in the early 2000's. The fickle unnecessary roughness calls, the phantom holding calls, the tripping calls vs Dallas last week, the play where Nuk got tackled in the endzone and they refused to deem it interference. The NFL can only do so much to cover it up, I'm giving it until 2023 until a scandal breaks.

11-27-2019, 09:38 AM	#11
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,906 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by Garry42 I agree with most everything said in this video, with the exception that the review of PI was instituted FOR the Saints. The debacle last year was against the Saints, but the rule is for the benefit of the entire league. Having said that, it hasn't worked out as envisioned and requires a lot more refining before it becomes effective. It is still entirely up to the discretion of one person that is far from neutral. I agree that it isn't "for" the Saints, but I think Riveron sees this as somehow being an "unfair overreaction" to what happened to the Saints, and how THEY reacted to it, and therefore the Saints have a target on their backs. I also think that there isn't any refining that needs to be done, as it will always be a judgement call, no matter what. The idea of replay is to give the refs a clear view, in slow-motion, to make BETTER judgement calls. They are refusing to overturn some pretty obvious calls, or non calls. Al Riveron has set an arbitrary standard that is so high for what is needed to overturn these calls, that the rule has basically been negated.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

11-27-2019, 09:39 AM	#12
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? The refs, no. RG...hell yes saintfan and OldMaid like this.

11-27-2019, 09:43 AM	#13
dam1953 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,645	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by st thomas These dummy dum asre flag happy biotches need to be put under harsher penalties just like the players . Hit um were it hurts there pockets.there flags need to be reviewed by someone out the of the button pushers of the NFL. They throw a fantom flag and a fine should stop all this horse shiiit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I like this concept a ton. Have an arbitration committee of non-players, non-owners, non-refs review questionable calls. Then start deducting from their salaries on a prorated scale. The more calls a ref blows the more he's fined per bad call. Blow too many and you're suspended for a game. Blow even more and you're suspended for the season. You could make it like points on your driving record with some missed calls worth more points than others. Rugby Saint II and st thomas like this.

11-27-2019, 10:56 AM	#14
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,500	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by burningmetal People keep saying this. Yes, he's technically an employee of the owners, but do you truly believe the owners are all out to get the Saints? Why wouldn't the 31 other owners collude to take down Robert Kraft and the Patriots, after nearly two full decades of them making the playoffs in all but two seasons, which were 9 and 11 win seasons? There is a known history between Goodell and the Saints. What happened to the Saints in the NFCCG last year, and the reaction it got, caused this new rule that is SUPPOSED to be in place to review pass interference. Al Riveron appears to have taken exception to this rule, and then there appeared to be a reversal to that exception when it involved the Saints on Sunday. To the detriment of the Saints. Who has the power to do something about Riveron's blatant refusal to properly administer fair reviews on PI calls or no calls? Roger Goodell. He's not doing anything. Because he is spineless. The Bengals are the only team who did not vote FOR reviewing pass interference. So if the owners were in favor of this, why would you believe they are in favor of the refs STILL not getting the calls right? This falls directly at the feet of Goodell and Riveron, but mainly Goodell because he can do something about this and he has done nothing. So I don't buy into this "Goodell is a puppet for the owners" talk. He might be a puppet in some ways, but he's mostly a dictator. Good Owner - Bad Owner. Why did Goodell get extended? Wouldn't look "Right" if all the "Votes" were unanimous would it? There may be some Owners who actually don't like what's transpiring but why the deafening silence from them? Are they blind to what is going on? Ultimately ALL THE OWNERS make $$$$$$$$$ Didn't Jurrah come out against the extension of Goodell and tried to rally enough owners to oust him? Why are the Cowboys worth $5 Billion dollars? (up 4% from 2018)
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,500

11-27-2019, 12:07 PM	#15
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? It’s not just the penalties, it’s the timing of the penalties. Any time the Saints make a play that can either pretty much put the game away or give us a huge momentum shift a flag will come out. Barry from MS and Rugby Saint II like this.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,006

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11-27-2019, 12:31 PM	#16
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 37,116 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Does college do it right on reviews?

11-27-2019, 01:03 PM	#17
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 23,765	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by The Dude It’s not just the penalties, it’s the timing of the penalties. Any time the Saints make a play that can either pretty much put the game away or give us a huge momentum shift a flag will come out. Therein lies the problem. It's the timing of the flags that is so questionable. In rugby we referees have a saying "he thinks there's an infringement on every play". We judge the call whether it is relevant or not to the play. If it wasn't a benefit to the offending team we will let it pass unless it is egregious. The referees need to be a separate entity under the NFL umbrella like in rugby. They need vigorous training and a complete review of the referees match. We have that in rugby but it's called kangaroo court. There have been several good suggestions about how to review and punish the referees and I agree with them entirely. Something has to be done. Even the casual observer can see the uneven distribution of flags. st thomas and shawnkytonk like this.
	There Are Two Kinds Of People In This World Being A Rugby Player Is Better Than Both Of Them

11-27-2019, 01:26 PM	#18
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,906 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by vpheughan Good Owner - Bad Owner. Why did Goodell get extended? Wouldn't look "Right" if all the "Votes" were unanimous would it? There may be some Owners who actually don't like what's transpiring but why the deafening silence from them? Are they blind to what is going on? Ultimately ALL THE OWNERS make $$$$$$$$$ Didn't Jurrah come out against the extension of Goodell and tried to rally enough owners to oust him? Why are the Cowboys worth $5 Billion dollars? (up 4% from 2018) Respectfully, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the issue we're discussing. And I don't know what you mean when you say it wouldn't look "right" if all the votes were unanimous. In what way would it not look right? If 31 owners were in favor of it, what difference would one more have made? I really have no idea what you're trying to get at there. Why are the owners silent? They usually are. Jerry is an exception to the rule. As long as they are making money, owners don't really care about discussing issues unless their own team gets screwed in an obviously disproportionate way. The owners are idiots for extending Goodell. I've written about my opinions on that at length. As I said, they don't seem to care about anything as long as they are making money. They are too ignorant to see that their brand is being tarnished, because they are under the false impression that their league is invincible. But there is a difference between owners being ignorant or apathetic to what is happening, and them deliberately tampering with the outcome of games. In the case of Roger Goodell, he has had an ax to grind with the Saints since "bountygate". The Saints didn't answer to master Goodell in a manner that he felt was befitting of his majesty in the years leading up to that sham, and so he made an example of them, going so far as to fabricate evidence against them. The owners, collectively, have no reason to hold any animosity toward the Saints. If it's all about money, and it is, then why damage any of your teams? You don't. But ever since Roger took over as commissioner, he's been on a mission to show that he's in total control. He's a tyrant. But, ironically, the league has become less disciplined in all areas since his reign began. Back to the Al Riveron issue with his out of control officials, and his unwillingness to hold them accountable; this is not something the owners want to deal with. They clearly don't like to be bothered, unless their name is Jerry Jones. But Goodell should be holding Riveron accountable. However, as always, he would rather kick the can down the road, than admit there is a problem. Especially when it concerns the Saints, it seems.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

11-27-2019, 01:45 PM	#19
Barry from MS Site Donor 2014 Join Date: May 2007 Location: TEMPO VC Okefenokee Swamp Posts: 1,985 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Originally Posted by SmashMouth Does college do it right on reviews? Yes. And it seems way quicker on most calls. NFL refs sit in congressional debate on every call and review. It's frustrating to watch this garbage anymore. Especially when there seems to be overwhelming evidence of refball being used to sway outcomes. WWE with helmets & shoulder pads. SmashMouth likes this.

11-27-2019, 01:55 PM	#20
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,606 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Do NFL Refs Hate The Saints? Like I said in another thread, NOTHING will change until someone blows the whistle and a Donaghy-level scandal is actually exposed. NBA got their act together pretty quickly and cleaned up their officiating system quite nicely once the entire league was in jeopardy and their feet were held to the fire. The obstruction by the NFL refs escalates greatly with every season, just like it had in the NBA in the early 2000's. The fickle unnecessary roughness calls, the phantom holding calls, the tripping calls vs Dallas last week, the play where Nuk got tackled in the endzone and they refused to deem it interference. The NFL can only do so much to cover it up, I'm giving it until 2023 until a scandal breaks. OldMaid likes this.

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