Wide Reciever
 

What wide reciever will be there at 27 or 28 because it won’t be at 32. This is getting ridiculous . With Patton calling the shots . It’s ok to be stubborn but hard headed is another story. Jees


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Re: Wide Reciever
 

I cannot for the life of me figure out why many think that the 3rd/4th receiver position is going to the be the downfall of the Saints. I can understand being annoyed with the drops. But even CGM dropped a ball Thursday.

What exactly is a first round WR pick going to do after balls to CGM, Kamara, Cook, Ginn, and Taysom? And that doesn't even consider other targets to TQS and backup tight ends.

I caught a segment last weekend on Gameday Morning with Kurt Warner on CGM. Kurt made an observation that tracks with the reality of the situation and points to why bringing someone else in isn't going to change much. This is in reference to Brees to Thomas:
This dispels the myth that Brees doesn't target other receivers because they are not open or not getting separation. CGM has a better catch percentage (86%) in contested catches than the rest of the NFL has throwing balls in the flat to open running backs. As Warner observed in the segment "Why would you throw it anywhere else?"

BTW this was true of Teddy too during his run. His QB rating was 40 points higher when targeting CGM than the ball going anywhere else.

Also BTW CGM is a perfect example of why 1st round WR are generally a bad idea. Care to name any of the 1st round WR drafted before CGM? Probably not as it'll leave a bad taste in your mouth.

All anyone who is currently a receiver on the Saints needs to do is catch the damn ball when it's thrown to them. Cook and Ginn, and even CGM, catching those drops makes this a completely different game.

SFIAH

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Henry Ruggs
Laviska Shenault
Justin Jefferson

Plenty of talent. I like Jefferson. We need a slot and he fits that profile.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Our first rd we draft picks were so long ago and were picked by idiots.
Tell that to MT he’s who he is because he was passed in the first round. And Kurt is a nice analyst be calling bs on that he just targets MT when drives stalled on our first drives or half a season was because
A— MT triple covered
B— tre Smith who is he)terrible out of a break can’t shake a cold
C— tre Smith hurt half a season
D—ted ginn is Ted ginn
E—cook needs to sell in
F—AK not counting beat up is getting gun shy
G — 10 wr wanta bes on practice squad
1 wr is great for stats did it Carry us to the super bowl last season no.


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Re: Wide Reciever
 

Because we get zero production out of the 2nd 3rd and 4th wr position as it stands.
I don’t think it’s as crucial of a problem as some. The deficit can be overcome by playing smart balanced football. Leave the deep plays out of the playbook and use short passes and screens. Payton seems to still want to go for the home run but the pieces aren’t there anymore.

Thursday’s drops could have been more of a timing issue than anything else. Brees said he sped up the tempo to help the offensive line. Maybe the receivers just misjudged ball placement?

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Still doing my thing, but so far, wideout guys I'm liking for the Saints...

• Jalen Raegor, TCU, would be a beast, and as I typed it yesterday, really like the idea of moving backing a few in round 2, picking up another Day 2 pick and getting him to re-open our passing game...
  
  
• LSU Wideout Justin Jefferson would be a sneaky pick as he's already a proven commodity in that he's been playing in the Saints system run by LSU Coach Joe Brady, who was in the similar role with the Saints...
  
  
• Another guy I really like is Texas WR Devin Duvernay, who really gave future PRO LSU DBs fits earlier in the year; he's got the speed and he's a warrior not afraid to fight for yards ala Steve Smith...
  
  
• A project that will need coaching (paging Dr. Curtis Johnson), but the physical tool belt Baylor's Denzel Mims has should have any WR coach worth his salt wanting this raw talent...
  
  
• A Late Round 3/early Day 3 pick I like OK State's Tylan Wallace as well, but he'll be limited to the z-receiver role (slot), and that's where @CantGuardMike does damage...
  
  
• Another is Quartney Davis, Texas A&M, who needs work with the hands, but he's got that Sean Payton coveted quality of, yes, suddeness, which is missing with Tre'Quan...
  
  
• A project on the back end of the draft that I'd be tickled to have then would be SMU's Reggie Robberson, who I think needs tweaking to get off the line to do damage deep...
  
  
• Today, am watching Boise State's John Hightower who gets to full speed like a Dodge Challenger SRT Demon ed. and shows great tracking skills on the long ball; envision that opposite @CantGuardMike...

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I wasn't talking about Saints 1st round picks. In 2016 here are WR in the 1st and 2nd rounds picked before Thomas:

Corey Coleman
Will Fuller
Josh Doctson
Laquan Treadwell
Sterling Shepard

For the most part, that's just yuck.

SFIAH

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Re: Wide Reciever
 

The guys we have now have Coach Curtis' schooling and the Thomas support system, and yet here we are.

I just see this discussion as just about as important as the 5th linebacker on special teams. An important job for sure. But simply not enough work to justify all the discussion.

SFIAH

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I agree with all SaintFan.
The Brees to CGM connection is high 80%. Other guys currently on roster just need to catch the ball when called upon. CGM doesn’t seem to take big shots, so there’s no need to worry about his production.
Only problem is other guys not catching da da*n ball. If Cook catches 2 of his drops, we win in a blowout. Bringing in someone else is just gonna take away from CGM’s production. CGM only had 6 catches because we tried to get other guys involved, see where it got us. Punting the ball.
I’m all for bringing in other guys if they produce when called upon.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

That argument goes both ways:
Is Thomas great because or Curtis? If so, why aren't Ginn, Carr, Arnold, Smith, et al better?

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Problem isn't at 3rd and 4though, we dont have **** after MT...trequan is a hot mess. Dez should be brought in to see what he has. Better than anything we have day 1...no doubt. And he is big so good run blocking

Re: Wide Reciever
 

^^^^

Not sure why that is so hard for some to comprehend.

If CGM misses any time, we're screwed at WR.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Thomas will succeed with any coach or QB throwing him the ball. He's been above avg since middle school.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

It's hard to comprehend for me because I simply don't see enough targets to justify the argument. Out of 421 targets, CGM has 132, the backs including Line has about 110, and the tight ends are just shy of another 100. Of the 80 targets left Ginn has 46 of them and TH has 16 more. So at most we're talking about Ginn's 46 targets and the 20 leftovers.

As for CGM being unavailable it's unclear what the redistribution would be. Brees has shown in the past that he can redistribute the ball. The distribution now is a choice of the offense, not a dictate of the defense.

Folks were asking what happened to Sneed a couple of years ago. He got caught in the black hole that CGM represents where he simply wasn't targeted anymore.

Bringing in someone else isn't necessarily going to change the distribution of targets. So this is why I wonder why we keep talking, and talking, and talking about it.

SFIAH

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I’m shocked that there is an argument against needing another WR.

Best yet the argument is, hey, just throw it more to Thomas you don’t need another WR because he is so good lol...

This isn’t about how good MT is, it’s about having the D respect another WR. More importantly having another guy that doesn’t drop every other pass thrown their way. Outside of MT we have absolutely nothing at WR and TE that makes a defense even think twice.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I'll leave it here ...

Can anyone honestly say you're comfortable with the Saints chances if say the 49ers or Vikings can take away MT13 and our running game struggles against a stout front? How will the Saints move the ball then without a capable receiver who can catch and get reasonable separation?? Cook, Ginn and Tre have yet to deliver consistently.

This offense has performed well, however it would be better served with a competent #2 opposite CGM. He'd have even more opportunities without bracket coverage.


It is what it is ... I'm just a arm chair GM but I surely hope the Saints front office/ scouts are targeting a WR in the 2020 draft and not un drafted guys who will need year(s) to develop.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Of course it would.

We are talking about it because we need another weapon and it is obvious from all of the possessions ending in Fg and punts. We just eeked by a team with 3 wins and missing their two top offensive weapons. That be why

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Of course not. Exactly this

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Precisely. Cooks has been open a lot as of late, and for potentiallybig gains, and that is certainly because of MT and AK, but then he is hit or miss.

You can see how the offense begs down because no one can get open

Re: Wide Reciever
 

So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Well I'm speaking specifically about cooks in the falcons game in atlanta on thursday, probably should have been specific.

Yeah it is clear to everyone we need another WR and have even last season. People are not open. The problem will be amplified come playoffs. The level of play steps up in the playoffs. Can we continue to win with our defense playing lights out, sure, maybe, do we need another wr, obviously .

Re: Wide Reciever
 

1we are 10-2, good team with a giant mega sized hole at wr, and I hope we get some help soon, because we need it BAD

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I agree, no point in throwing the ball to anyone else when one person catches damn near everything. Why do that, throw it to someone else? No.

Throw it to him every single time. So what. Nobody can stop it. Besides, look at all the drops from everyone else right in the numbers. NO.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

This is not how offense works... progression in routs doesn’t go from one position group to another... it’s based on rout coverage and proximity to the primary rout, you don’t want your QB taking a long time to go through progression... usually the check down or RB rout is the last read.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

What good CBs has MT played this year?

What happens when MT gets covered by Sherman?

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I remember last year our offense was unstoppable until Dallas. I may be wrong and over simplifying here, but thought they doubled MT and had LB fast enough to stick with AK and as a result our entire offense bogged down.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Byron Jones locked down MT and they KOed Kamara... it also helped that they were allowed to mug our WRs. There should have been at least 10 PIs that were never called.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Yeah I remember that too now. Mugging them. That's the thing about playoffs too, it is like they call the PI less stringent than during regular season.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Precisely.

See post #18.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I'd like to see Deonte' Harris more involved in the offense vs Niners and subsequent playoff run.

Sure as hell can't count on Ginn and Trequan Smith.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

He was putting it right in their hands. We are who we are at this point. I would not throw it anyone but MT, Kamara, Taysom and Cook which is more options than Green Bay has so I will take it. Our WR's suck. Can't have it all.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

Stop thinking fantasy stats and start thinking Super Bowl . Put AK in the slot and Murray in the back field which I think will be coming more often .


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Re: Wide Reciever
 

Nailed It


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Re: Wide Reciever
 

When we get to the playoffs they will still be calling us for ticky tack penalties to keep the game alive for the big market teams.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

People want to say Brees aint declining, his decision making may not be, but his arm certainly is.

He not getting the ball out like he did 4-5 years ago to a WR/TE. He still got the accuracy, but he not throwing it 20-30 yards down field unless they really wide open because his arm strength is obviously diminished alot. This is where you start to see where you stand with your WR/TE/RB because in the past, Brees could make anyone look good. Now you better have good talent at those positions that will help your QB as much as he helps you.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I saw a 25 yard pass that fell into TE Cook's hands and dropped with a wide open field
Cook also dropped another easy touch pass inside the end zone.
Tedd Ginn Jr has dropped so many balls this year that I hope we cut him. Those balls have landed right in his hands.

Brees decline? Sure... maybe.... who would know if wide receivers don't catch balls. I've read this argument that Brees has been on the decline since 2012.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

I thought Brees would come un glued after that dropped pass (close to perfect) from Cook.

It was a rainbow. Maybe Jared lost it in the light? I don't know but we need his A game vs the Niners.

Re: Wide Reciever
 

For years Brees has made average to good receivers look great. This year we're seeing the reverse, where bad receivers are making it look like Brees' age is starting to take its toll, when that isn't the case.

Seems like we are always missing a critical piece. For years there weren't many holes in the O, but the D looked like a sieve. We were setting records on both sides of the ball. Unfortunately, the defensive records were the type you don't want to own.

Once the D line came around we couldn't find a corner. Now that the D has plugged most of the holes, the O only has one reliable receiver. Thank God he's the best in the NFL.

As a Saints fan, this is totally frustrating. It has to be driving Brees crazy.