N/S Your take on the XFL
 

I personally believe that this may be the one that lasts and builds. It'd be amazing if in 10-15 years the XFL is really challenging the NFL(hopefully there is a New Orleans team in the future). I think they are doing a lot of positive things. A lot better start than the inferior AAF. Even if the XFL doesn't blow up quite as big as I'd hope, I'm at the very least hoping that it forces the NFL to have to really adapt to keep its market share.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

They only have 8 teams now, they will grow. It is important for them to grow, as someone needs to put some pressure on the NFL(or overtake the NFL). The NFL has been trending towards **** for years. Someone needs to force them to re-evaluate themselves. Just look at the XFL's ingenious kickoff rule. The NFL was wanting to get rid of the kickoff all together for player safety. The XFL did something that is fun, exciting, and a heck of a lot more safe. Hopefully they will get a New Orleans team ,but it is still early in their development.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Took my son on yesterday (Global Life Park/Arlington) ... only 20 minute drive from Bedford.

Tickets (seatgeek), parking & food all affordable. Rules are a little different but it was fun. Bob Stoops / Renegades take an L but I'll definitely attend another. Is it NFL level? .. no but entertaining.

If they are in your town, it's worth checking out.

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I watched one of the games on TV at the rugby bar Saturday. I didn't watch closely but at least there was football on and Roger Godhell wasn't involved. That's a win in my book.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Thought they did a lot of things well and it was entertaining to watch.

Liked..
Kickoffs
New extra point system after TDs
Player/Coach interviews on the sideline during the game

Could do without..
Coach play calls being broadcast live.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Liked the kick off


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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Watched some highlights on Youtube and it didn't look half bad IMO.

I might watch a whole game this weekend to take in the whole experience.

Any competition for the NFL is good in my books, I just hope they can make it last...

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I went to the Houston game, great crowd and everyone enjoyed the game.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Perhaps you have that backwards?

No Interest... = No New Orleans Team

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This league and their rules were not made in a vacuum from the NFL. There are NFL people on every level of the XFL and I'll guarantee you that all of these rules have been discussed in the NFL back rooms. The XFL is not meant to be competition for the NFL ... not now or in the future. What it is is a proving ground for players, coaches, front office, officials AND rules for the NFL.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Brother, I get it... But by the matrix that matter in business, revenue and profit, their formula is a huge success.

The NFL isn't Run - DMC anymore, it's closer to Milli Vanilli... full of fake entertainment.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...fl-since-2005/

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

This incarnation is SO much better than the original XFL. The XFL really could have staying power as a minor/feeder league to the NFL. It isn't going to ever compete with the NFL unless NFL has an extraordinary scandal or labor issue like never seen before.

The key to the XFL being successful long-term is actually going to be the NCAA, not the NFL. I'm very curious to see their first draft or rosters a year or two down the road look when/if the XFL manages to get some popular college stars that couldn't quite find a home in the NFL. XFL needs to milk the college ties, then they will get more people hooked and retain fan interest organically.

LIKES:

• Broadcast/coverage. LOVED that they had Joel Klatt, Brock Huard and carryover of multiple college broadcast people. Created familiarity so I didn't feel like I stepped into some alternate universe LOL.
• Kickoff rule is much better because NFL kickoffs are often so anti-climactic (block in back or kick out of endzone). This is more like a rugby play and better tests the skill of the players.
• Extra-point rules are good and keep you interested.
• Much Less gimmicky than original XFL.
• Good pace and officiating, games didn't turn into flag-fests or review-fests.

DISLIKES:

• Broadcast offensive play-calls (It was kind of cool to get in touch with the football terms and lingo, but spoils the fun of not knowing if the run or pass was coming)
• Interviewing coaches and players - I liked it, but they need to dial it back a bit.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

As for your first dislike, there was minimal practice time available for the start up to introduce nothing more than a basic playbook. I have a feeling that we'll start seeing more checks being made at the line as the season progresses where the decision to go run or pass will depend more on the read at the line. As for the second, I'll bet they do dial it back a bit with push back by the coaches. Todd Haley, now an NFL Radio co-host, said he would absolutely hate the in game interviews. He also said he was offered the head coaching job with the NY team but turned it down. Yet, he is still paying close attention as he has several friends involved.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

:stupid:That has a lot to do with the fact that the NFL is a unfair monopoly that gets billions in subsidies from US taxpayers making it very difficult for other organizations to compete with it for market share. This in turn makes it so they can do whatever they want and still control the market. It shouldn't work this way. There should be competition between different leagues, and the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field. This is the prime reason that I have a little hope in the XFL as it has better financial backing than the other attempts.

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You are going under the assumption that the XFL would ever want to compete with the NFL. That is not going to happen if they ever wish to be viable. To compete they would have to eventually have comparable talent and that would require comparable finances. It would take decades for this to happen. They know that and that is why the only way the league could ever survive would be for it to be a compliment to the NFL, not a competitor to the NFL.

XFL players make a salary of $55,000 per season. That's less than the average strength coach makes in the NFL. They are not now, nor ever will be a competitor with the NFL.

To be honest, the CFL is the only league that can come close to being able to compete and even they know their place. I'm afraid you need to give up your pipe dream at least in any of our lifetimes.

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The salaries are low because they have no revenue stream. As the revenue streams go up, the salaries will as well. Eventually they will try to steal players from the NFL. If the XFL continues its success, if you think there won't be a point where the XFL tries to out compete the NFL on offers to particular players, you are wrong.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

I watched a couple of games and enjoyed it. Nice to watch some football.

I don't think they become a challenger to the NFL. But, that might be a good thing. As someone posted earlier in this thread, the games seem to be affordable. Can't say that about the NFL right now.

I think the league will eventually become a league with young guys trying to get to the NFL and older guys who the NFL doesn't want anymore. Hate to say this, but kind of like the MLS in soccer.

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LOL!!

hitta, my friend. Player contracts in the XFL are capped at $55,000 right now. That is less than an NFL player earns under contract for getting fitted for his jock strap.

I assume you haven't understood the concept of the XFL.

Your wild-assed dream that the XFL, or even the CFL that has been around for longer than the NFL, could compete monetarily for talent is beyond idiocy. I want some of your drugs, my friend.

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Player contracts are not capped at $55,000.. that is the average XFL salary. Some players, such as Cardale Jones are making over $500k. Why wouldn't the XFL want to compete with the NFL? Do you think their motto is "Watch the NFL instead, we suck."?

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Holy Cow Batman !

Awesome 10 game salary if you can get it :p.

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Okay, that is correct, but with an average of $55K there are quite a number of players making less than that, correct? The XFL can never hope to be able to draw the same talent as the NFL and that is the only way they could ever directly compete.

Per league president, Oliver Luck himself:

"We don’t compete with the NFL,” Luck said at an XFL press conference today. “I don’t think anybody competes with the NFL. I love the NFL. It’s a juggernaut, it’s an awesome league, I was proud to be a player way back in the day, I’m proud my son can play in the league. We have great relationships with both the league office and the local teams in the markets we’re in. So we want to be a complement. We want to stay away from politics. We want to play good football, make it family affordable, keep it relatively simple, a fun day out at the ballpark, the stadium, and try to stay away as best we can from all the other issues. You’ll never hear me say a bad word about the National Football League."

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Apparently a few of the very top QB's can reach that figure. Given there is central ownership of all eight teams players have no leverage and are forced to play within the leagues standardized pay structure. To survive they need to stick to their strategy of providing affordable entertainment and that can only be done if player salaries are held to a minimum. There should be little overlap of the talent pools between the two leagues. The highest paid XFL QB's appear to make the same as a long snapper in the NFL. Becoming competition with the CFL may become attainable some day. That could possibly fit within their operating model.

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Agree. Now that I think about it, the new XFL actually reminds me of NFL Europe, just not as closely tied to the NFL. It was a bit disappointing when NFL Europe was discontinued and the new XFL fills that void.

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I don't care whether they say they are trying to compete with the NFL or not. When you create a company in the same field as another company, and you make changes to your brand(XFL) that differ from the other brand(NFL) in order to attract viewers you are by definition competing with them. If one of the driving factors in a company trying to sell their product is by creating a juxtaposition to another companies product then there is competition. Even if the only differentiating factor that the league was offering was giving players that wouldn't have a shot in the NFL a chance to compete, that is still something they are attempting to offer that the NFL does not offer, hence they are competing with the league. When they say they aren't trying to compete with the NFL, this is just their marketing/advertising scheme.

I'm sure as a league they do want to share viewers with the NFL(complement as they say). They are doing things that they hope will attract viewers that the NFL doesn't have as well.

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This started off with you complaining about the NFL being an "unfair monopoly" and you were hopeful that the XFL has the financial backing to be the "more successful" league that puts better product on the field than the NFL. I was pointing out that it is impossible for the XFL to put a better product out on the field based upon the market the are hoping to capture. Their existence will have no adverse affect on the NFL. They are not in competition at all. They are not competing for players. Making sure their season does not overlap with the NFL's ensures they are not in competition for fans.

They are no more of a competitor of the NFL than is college or minor league baseball to the MLB.

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If that is what you chose to believe then it is on you.

Fact of the matter is that money and power do not drive interest and fanbase in the entertainment industry. David Tepper and Stan Kroneke (rightnow you are asking your self who in the **** are they, so did I) are the two richest NFL team owners and I wouldn't watch the Panthers or the Rams if you paid me.

Product appeal drives revenue pure and simple. This is why Brittany Spears has the number one single of all time in terms of sales... Its not her talent or skill. its why Bing Crosby has the #2 and #4 selling singles of all time, he has no power or money and died 43 years ago. Its why a little company named Microsoft crushed IMB and why a little company named Apple crushed Microsoft... Better products at the right time. Coke a Cola has a LOT or power and money, New Coke flopped in 1985.

To date one of your statements is correct:"the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field."

What appeals to you is irrelevant, its what appeals to the broadest audience that makes money and power. In spite of its issues, to date.. no one has put a better product on the field than the NFL. Right now those honours go to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL.

BTW, team owners negotiate with local government for stadiums and local concessions, not the league. This is why not all stadiums or teams are created or function equally.

I get that you were fed a line of sh1t and it made sense when you heard it, it wasn't correct.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

History repeats itself over and over.

There was the AFL. An "inferior" league filled with "reject" players until
Super Bowl III. And then Super Bowl IV. By the merger, you had dynasties in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and for a while, the old NFL teams couldnt win a SB.

The USFL, which suicided itself, also filled with many players who became
stars in the NFL, including 1/2 of our Dome Patrol, and our most successful
coach up to that date in Jim Mora, not to mention our starting QB for how many years?

Learn from the past, before you dismiss a rising star. And personally, I'm eager to see a bunch of hungry players show their worth in Houston. Its a great entertainment value, and you'll be able to say, "I knew that guy, when...."

Also, I think this will be like being an old AFL Fan. Who knows what will happen? I'll try it.

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It won't last past 2 years.

Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Pittsburgh was an NFL team. The old Steelers were pretty much bottom feeders before the merger. After the merger, NFL franchises Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Baltimore (Colts) all moved to the AFC. Baltimore played in an early SB under the AFC banner against Dallas.

Historically, the AFL had success too cause they allowed black players when the NFL wouldn't. Vince Lombardi was controversial in his era for allowing multiple black players as starters on his Packers teams, something that did not go over well with the other coaches and owners in the league. This wasn't a problem in the AFL, as they many black players, including stars in their era. Jim Brown famously retired in his prime due to the racism he endured in the old NFL before the merger.

I'm not sure if I'd call all the AFL stars rejects from the NFL, cause many of them wanted to go to those teams. I've done a lot of research and reading on the AFL, cause I was fascinated with their history. The AFL was a different beast from the NFL all together. Joe Namath had a 4,000+ passing yard season in the AFL, something unheard of in the NFL. One of the key selling points was that the AFL had the high-scoring, shoot out games. It's debatable which teams had any defenses in the AFL, cause there were tons of games that were shoot outs, some even with both teams scoring in the 40s. On lists of highest scoring games in history, I think there are still some AFL games on there to this day.

It also helped the AFL that they had teams in areas and markets that the NFL had yet to expand in. They had the Patriots in the Boston area, Dolphins down in South Florida and 2 teams in the southern Cali area (Chargers and Raiders).

I don't think this is the same situation though. The pay for the XFL and injuries will be one of it's downfalls.

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Yea, what you are saying here has absolutely nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make. The NFL puts the best product on display, which is why it dominates. This is only because it has had a ton of help in doing so. If the NFL had to go through the same process as other football leagues that try to blossom, then it wouldn't be near as powerful as it is now. Also when you say that "team owners negotiate" you are kidding yourself. There have been many times where the NFL has already started negotiating with the local and state governments before they even had an owner for the team they were looking to move. There are so many things that the NFL gets away with, and the idea that they've gotten there because they've been more creative or smarter than other brands is laughable. There are literally books on how the NFL gets giant tax advantages(from how they've used their non profit status to not pay tens of millions of dollars in taxes to how they've used write offs on corporate seating). The NFL isn't Britney Spears.

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I’m talking about exactly what you are just maybe not getting the point across it seems.

Instead of a page reply, I’ll take two lines and comment on them which should make you understand that you are looking at a snap shot and not the whole picture.

1. “ If the NFL had to go through the same process as other football leagues that try to blossom, then it wouldn't be near as powerful as it is now.”

It did, how do you think it started and got to where it is now. Actually the NFL had it harder and paved the way for knock off leagues, making their birth and progress easier. The NFL is proof of concept which is what investors want to see before funding new ventures, without investors zero professional leagues exist. The NFL’s power comes from its revenues not vice versa.

2. “ Also when you say that "team owners negotiate" you are kidding yourself. There have been many times where the NFL has already started negotiating with the local and state governments before they even had an owner for the team they were looking to move.”

Who exactly do you think decides which State Governments are talked to? Goodell doesn’t move a team brother, the owner of the team does. Benson didn’t need Goodell to bless his move to San Antonio, he needed the other 31 owners. Goodell and the people beneath him do why they are told by the Owners.

A new city, new team, new owner are not approved by Goodell, they are decided and approved by a vote from the owners.

Again.... believe as you wish but assuming I’m clueless or ‘kidding myself’ doesn’t further any understanding.

If you built a lemonade franchise from a single stand over a 50 year period, should it be rather delusional for me to say that you are only a successful franchise because of power? Ignoring 50 years of hard work and product development....

And fuc8, a page reply lol

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Lol


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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL
 

Once again you are making arguments against things I'm not even saying. I don't care if it is Goodell or the owners doing it. I'm saying that the NFL gets in bed with the local and state governments, gets special deals, and builds their stadiums. I don't care if they send Roger Goodell, the Cookie Monster, or some team of owners to get the job done. They get special tax breaks from the federal government as well to go along with this.

To the other point, if you look back through the history of the league, the NFL(not the merged NFL-AFL) absorbed the AAFCs which was a decent rival league. The AFL emerged to challenge the NFL. The AFL was a strong challenger to the NFL Then the NFL and AFL merged. The idea that the NFL(in its current form) has had it hard is ridiculous. The current NFL is just the result of a bunch of mergers. The whole NFL as is has had its path handed to it on a silver platter. Throughout history, there have been several entities that have done a fairly decent job at challenging the NFL, but they all end up merging because it is easier and they have fewer roadblocks mainly because of how society is legislated. The NFL and AFL both had their hands in the government cookie jar, and the moment they came together they had a wide open door to do what they wanted at both the local, state, and even federal(such as using their non-profit status to get out of paying several million dollars in taxes) levels. At the current moment, it is almost impossible to challenge the NFL because of all the advantages they have had and will continue to have. They only way they have had it harder is that it has required a progression over time to build and also for society to build up and advance the infrastructure. As far as the tax code and the government are concerned, not too many companies have had it easier than the NFL.


There are so many different things I can point out. Sports broadcasting act of 1961 and how CBS also have unfair advantages when it comes to broadcasting through special means. I mean do you think it's fair that most of these networks like CBS have public help, then they go and make broadcasting deals with entities like the NFL to broadcast all their games? And if other leagues can't get these broadcasting deals with CBS or FOX, but end up on some other less watched station. The XFL is very fortunate to end up on ESPN/ABC and Fox. Their deals probably aren't nearly as good though revenue wise, but at least they get some visibility. Still, the whole thing is one big machine, and most people just ignore it. You try to pretend like everything that has occurred has been due to the free market playing out, but it hasn't.

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I enjoyed watching the Houston game, I like the extra point rules for 1,2 or 3 points. Plan on going to a game at some point this season and hope this becomes a successful league for players that don’t make NFL teams or even as a minor league system for the NFL like NFL Europe

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No Sir. I am under zero illusion that a pure free market exists, just like I am under zero illusion that any company exists without the assistance of public tax dollars. Even one man S-Corps (Sole Proprietorships) get assistance (financial backing) from the SBA. Similarly I am not under the illusion that the XFL is a small business trying to get started. You are singing that song very loudly 'the small guy with no power is lucky and has no chance'.

What you may or may not know is that the XFL is not a fledgling company, it is an extension of WWE Wrestling (5.7BN valuation), Alfa Entertainment (3.2BN valuation), and Vince McMahon's (Net Worth is 2BN)... The CEO and Commissioner Oliver Luck ran for Congress, was drafted by the Houston Oilers, was GM of 2 NFL Europe teams, and was Executive Vice President of Regulatory Affairs of the NCAA...

Vince McMahon sold $272MM in stock to start the XFL... when the XFL walks into an office, it isn't fu0king Gepetto the pore cobbler with hat in hand looking for a handout. Its the paragraph above leveraging all of its might.

You've been sold on an ideal and its not reality.

Anything further and I am repeating myself. :angel:

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I've already said I had high hopes for the XFL,because it had strong financial backing. I've already stated that I think there are several things that the XFL does better than the NFL and I'd love to see the XFL really challenge the NFL. The only thing I'm trying to point out is its hard to knock the NFL off the top because it is so ingrained in network that is society. It has all the legal advantages and help from other corporate entities. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was arguing that the XFL was "Gepetto the pore cobbler with hat in hand looking for a handout". I've never once made that assertion.

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I see where you are coming from, but, as much as you would love to see the XFL "challenge" the NFL it is never going to happen nor do they want it to happen. The only thing that could keep the XFL viable for the long term would be for them to stick to their model of keeping the league affordable and entertaining for the potential fans and being a complimentary league to the NFL. Any attempt to actually compete would be financially suicidal and they know that.

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Think about this from the perspective of a player.

You have spent your whole life training and working your ass off through high school and then college to make it in football.

You go to the NFL where you are guaranteed to at least make a seven figure income even on the cheapest deal, and where you're going to make millions if you're drafted in the early rounds.

Or you go to the XFL for table scraps.

I think most of the fans are just angry at the NFL (especially this fan base) and not looking at this from other perspectives. This XFL thing is going to fold the way it did the last time.

They're not going to challenge the NFL. This is definitely not an AFL type situation where players actually wanted to go there.

I don't trust Vince McMahon either. Look what he has done to WWE. Wrestling ratings are at all time lows and have been sinking since the 2000s. Most wrestling fans have been talking about how much he has screwed up their entertainment sport for years now.

XFL will go 2 years max.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CHA_CHING (Post 879836) Think about this from the perspective of a player. You have spent your whole life training and working your ass off through high school and then college to make it in football. You go to the NFL where you are guaranteed to at least make a seven figure income even on the cheapest deal, and where you're going to make millions if you're drafted in the early rounds. Or you go to the XFL for table scraps. I think most of the fans are just angry at the NFL (especially this fan base) XFL will go 2 years max.

The Player? The Player?

Do the math. 128 DI FBS college teams fielding as many as 85 players.

That's 10,880 players all dreaming of a professional career.

In 2019 the total number of NFL players making up the final 53 man rosters was 1,696!!!

This leaves 9,184 players without jobs.

"SETTLING FOR XFL TABLE SCRAPS"? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: