In Defense of Jameis Winston

TheOak · 05-28-2020, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by burningmetal

I won't disagree that you can't change the way a person thinks, in the sense that you can't change that person by yourself. But it is absolutely true that you can influence a person to introspect and ultimately come to a realization that change is necessary. Whether they ever admit it, out loud, is irrelevant.

Everyone has to make the choice to change, so we agree in that regard. But it helps to get a nudge in the right direction from a person you respect. I'm not sure anyone on the Saints coaching staff is that type of mentor, but maybe Brees is. If we can take what Winston says seriously, he has already been steered in the right direction. But, as others have stated, it remains to be seen if his public statements translate to reality.

At any rate, he's just the backup right now, and I don't know who was going to be any better in that role who was available. So if he shows no signs of maturity, on or off the field, over the next year, then he walks. So I don't see this as a big risk. But there is at least potential for a substantial reward.

So in stead of just agreeing with me, you say you won’t disagree with me and say what I said differently lol.

See that part about maturation and objective understanding? That has to happen before someone is open to anything other than what he has mind set on. Either that or a life event, the loss of a loved one or job can disillusion someone quickly sometimes.

Thank you for opening with not disagreeing with me, I know that couldn’t have been easy. I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing with you.

burningmetal · 05-29-2020, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So in stead of just agreeing with me, you say you won’t disagree with me and say what I said differently lol.

See that part about maturation and objective understanding? That has to happen before someone is open to anything other than what he has mind set on. Either that or a life event, the loss of a loved one or job can disillusion someone quickly sometimes.

Thank you for opening with not disagreeing with me, I know that couldn’t have been easy. I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing with you.

There's a reason I said I won't disagree, as opposed to just saying "I agree", and the words that directly followed provided the context as to why.

From your perspective, at least the way you worded it (since you often say I misunderstood you, even though I can only understand things as they are written, and can't read minds who apparently always mean something different from what they actually say) is that you can't change the way a person thinks. Those are your direct words. And, as I explained, I only agree in the sense that you can't make up that person's mind for them. But I don't agree entirely, because you CAN influence the way a person thinks.

Yes, I read the part about maturation. Duly noted. Does maturation come ONLY when you are ready, by way of some life changing experience, and not by way of any sort of outside mentorship? That appears to be your position, and in my opinion, that is subjective reasoning.

People who go through life with bad influences, tend to turn into bad people. People who have positive or "good" influences tend to become "good" people, at least in terms of how the world defines someone to be basically good. The ability to "reason" is God given. HOW you reason is shaped by your influences. Just take a look at the political spectrum. People of similar ages, with similar education levels, but vastly different levels of reasoning, morals, beliefs and behavior.

What you are predisposed to impacts your way of thinking. And when someone is set in their ways, it's difficult to steer them back in the right direction. It is, however, possible.

05-28-2020, 07:48 PM	#1
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston Originally Posted by burningmetal I won't disagree that you can't change the way a person thinks, in the sense that you can't change that person by yourself. But it is absolutely true that you can influence a person to introspect and ultimately come to a realization that change is necessary. Whether they ever admit it, out loud, is irrelevant. Everyone has to make the choice to change, so we agree in that regard. But it helps to get a nudge in the right direction from a person you respect. I'm not sure anyone on the Saints coaching staff is that type of mentor, but maybe Brees is. If we can take what Winston says seriously, he has already been steered in the right direction. But, as others have stated, it remains to be seen if his public statements translate to reality. At any rate, he's just the backup right now, and I don't know who was going to be any better in that role who was available. So if he shows no signs of maturity, on or off the field, over the next year, then he walks. So I don't see this as a big risk. But there is at least potential for a substantial reward. So in stead of just agreeing with me, you say you won’t disagree with me and say what I said differently lol. See that part about maturation and objective understanding? That has to happen before someone is open to anything other than what he has mind set on. Either that or a life event, the loss of a loved one or job can disillusion someone quickly sometimes. Thank you for opening with not disagreeing with me, I know that couldn’t have been easy. I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing with you.

05-29-2020, 09:02 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: In Defense of Jameis Winston Originally Posted by TheOak So in stead of just agreeing with me, you say you won’t disagree with me and say what I said differently lol. See that part about maturation and objective understanding? That has to happen before someone is open to anything other than what he has mind set on. Either that or a life event, the loss of a loved one or job can disillusion someone quickly sometimes. Thank you for opening with not disagreeing with me, I know that couldn’t have been easy. I’m not laughing at you, I’m laughing with you. There's a reason I said I won't disagree, as opposed to just saying "I agree", and the words that directly followed provided the context as to why. From your perspective, at least the way you worded it (since you often say I misunderstood you, even though I can only understand things as they are written, and can't read minds who apparently always mean something different from what they actually say) is that you can't change the way a person thinks. Those are your direct words. And, as I explained, I only agree in the sense that you can't make up that person's mind for them. But I don't agree entirely, because you CAN influence the way a person thinks. Yes, I read the part about maturation. Duly noted. Does maturation come ONLY when you are ready, by way of some life changing experience, and not by way of any sort of outside mentorship? That appears to be your position, and in my opinion, that is subjective reasoning. People who go through life with bad influences, tend to turn into bad people. People who have positive or "good" influences tend to become "good" people, at least in terms of how the world defines someone to be basically good. The ability to "reason" is God given. HOW you reason is shaped by your influences. Just take a look at the political spectrum. People of similar ages, with similar education levels, but vastly different levels of reasoning, morals, beliefs and behavior. What you are predisposed to impacts your way of thinking. And when someone is set in their ways, it's difficult to steer them back in the right direction. It is, however, possible. K Major likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.