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Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastmode (Post 890028)

Belongs in the political forum. It involves players but it's politics. I do agree though on movements getting hijacked. They always get hijacked for nefarious reasons that have nothing to do with the movement. The PLO started as a good movement and they were close to peace. It was hijacked and turned into a business with guns, weapons and terrorism. Never achieving any peace with it now.

I placed this here because it isn't political discussion and contains zero partisanship. I put this here because it is about all of us. Its a plea for common decency.

I see this as more of a social issue than a political one.

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 890099)

An elevated understanding and objective discussion doesn't require a concession of standing or high-ground neutrality.

It is very easy to keep things civil; decide your goal, what tone you want to set and don't get pulled into the weeds. I am naturally inclined to address each of the concerns that you have in your reply but I am not interested in an itemized tug of war with you and I wont be pulled into one. Obviously you need to vent; a lot of other people around here do as well but no one wants to just listen.

What sets these boards apart from other Saints boards is our ability to have a thoughtful discussion instead of just pages of strung together comments.

We all believe in our own strength and intelligence, well put it to the test. Engage in intellectual conversation and do not deviate.

Oak, I get your sentiments. No one wants to devolve everything into an argument. Well, some people only want that, but they are in the minority. The thing is, when you say "no one wants to just listen", I only see that coming from one side. And I trust you know which side I'm referring to.

We've been listening to this "message" for decades. Oak, there IS no message. Some people will never be satisfied until we bow completely to political correctness and pay reparations for things that have nothing to do with any white or black person alive today. There is nothing to listen to.

George Floyd was murdered. We can all agree on that. These kinds of incidents involving white cops killing black people are extremely rare, but ALWAYS cherry picked against overwhelming criminal statistics coming from the black community. These statistics have been shared, not maliciously, but in a matter of fact way. No one "listens". They don't care. And by "they" I am talking about these militant black AND white liberals.

There are plenty of white and black people who get along just fine. But when the mob comes in and starts attacking the rest of us for not bending the knee to the made up narrative of "systemic racism" we need to be able to speak our minds. If that floods into these boards, so be it.

If you want us to lead an example for these football players, the example I refuse to set is to sit back and allow this rhetoric to fly in my face because I don't want to "offend" anyone, or cause a ripple in our little internet utopia. I'm sorry, but there are more important things than football and trying to hold on for dear life to fandom. I agree with remaining civil. I think, with the exception of just a couple of people, we manage to do that just fine.

These players need to learn to listen to OTHERS. They always want us poor little peasants to listen to them and honor their "greatness". I can't speak for you, but I've had enough. I can speak my mind without senseless bashing. I've done it for a long time, and I'll continue to do it. I wish people WOULD listen, but like Danno said, that needs to go both ways. I'm tired of trying to reason with people, being as patient as I can be, showing FACTS that refute the narrative, and getting ear muffs on the other end, only to be told I am the one who needs to listen.

We're not going to make "progress" until people quit bending over to political correctness, or just trying to avoid the issue for the sake of being friends. If a person is incapable of listening to your point of view without disowning you, then you don't need their friendship.

That's all I'm going to say about it, for now.

Re: Please Don't

If it ain't about football on the field it's some other BS. Belongs in another board topic. This is total political BS. Put it there next time. Nothing to do with the actual game of football.

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastmode (Post 890114)

If it ain't about football on the field it's some other BS. Belongs in another board topic. This is total political BS. Put it there next time. Nothing to do with the actual game of football.

It doesn't matter what board it is. These are different times, and there is not football being played. I don't care where anyone posts their opinion. We are all free to discuss or ignore.

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 890110)

These players need to learn to listen to OTHERS.

How do we teach men the value of listening over being heard?

I have not disagreed with anything that you or Danno have said and fully understand your points.

My abilities afford me the opportunity to sit in meetings with PHD Chemists, corporate executives and career engineers. My role is to listen, process and later provide feedback. My first observation is that I am the only one listening and I am not a decision maker.

I have one question for both of you. In 10 words or less, what is your specific end game/goal/want?

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by burningmetal (Post 890110)

Oak, I get your sentiments. No one wants to devolve everything into an argument. Well, some people only want that, but they are in the minority. The thing is, when you say "no one wants to just listen", I only see that coming from one side. And I trust you know which side I'm referring to.

We've been listening to this "message" for decades. Oak, there IS no message. Some people will never be satisfied until we bow completely to political correctness and pay reparations for things that have nothing to do with any white or black person alive today. There is nothing to listen to.

George Floyd was murdered. We can all agree on that. These kinds of incidents involving white cops killing black people is extremely rare, but ALWAYS cherry picked against overwhelming criminal statistics coming from the black community. These statistics have been shared, not maliciously, but in a matter of fact way. No one "listens". They don't care. And by "they" I am talking about these militant black AND white liberals.

There are plenty of white and black people who get along just fine. But when the mob comes in and starts attacking the rest of us for not bending the knee to the made up narrative of "systemic racism" we need to be able to speak our minds. If that floods into these boards, so be it.

If you want us to lead an example for these football players, the example I refuse to set is to sit back and allow this rhetoric to fly in my face because I don't want to "offend" anyone, or cause a ripple in our little internet utopia. I'm sorry, but there are more important things than football and trying to hold on for dear life to fandom. I agree with remaining civil. I think, with the exception of just a couple of people, we manage to do that just fine.

These players need to learn to listen to OTHERS. They always want us poor little peasants to listen to them and honor their "greatness". I can't speak for you, but I've had enough. I can speak my mind without senseless bashing. I've done it for a long time, and I'll continue to do it. I wish people WOULD listen, but like Danno said, that needs to go both ways. I'm tired of trying to reason with people, being as patient as I can be, showing FACTS that refute the narrative, and getting ear muffs on the other end, only to be told I am the one who needs to listen.

We're not going to make "progress" until people quit bending over to political correctness, or just trying to avoid the issue for the sake of being friends. If a person is incapable of listening to your point of view without disowning you, then you don't need their friendship.

That's all I'm going to say about it, for now.

I dont know your profession but you write well

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 890130)

I have one question for both of you. In 10 words or less, what is your specific end game/goal/want?

Oak, I can sum up my endgame on just about every issue with one word...

TRUTH

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 890147)

Oak, I can sum up my endgame on just about every issue with one word...

TRUTH

Let's talk about the truth.

A lot of people in this country grew up on the same street, listening to the same people, tell the same stories and are none the wiser that those were just stories. Some of those stories were about bad white men, some were about bad black men... Today they fight in the streets for their version of the truth.

I get your point 100% Danno but presenting fact doesn't just change belief. People tend to cling to beliefs and it takes more than one pass with facts to open our eyes does it?

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 890159)

It will take generations to change beliefs. The best way is to present the truth over and over again, and to challenge lies over and over again.

Re: Please Don't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno (Post 890163)

It will take generations to change beliefs. The best way is to present the truth over and over again, and to challenge lies over and over again.

And even then some people will still refuse to listen. That's why I really respect Demario Davis and his thoughts.

When Brees said what he said, he listened. He didnt like what he heard, but he constructed a viable response and had a grown up conversation. Thats the only way this world moves forward.

People like Michael Thomas and Malcolm Jenkins could learn a lot from Davis.

The way a lot of the sporting world responded was immediately to call Brees a racist and I think that couldn't be further from the truth. Brees said something that a lot of people didn't agree with, but rather than taking the time to educate him on these matters and have conversations with him, a lot of people cut ties with him straight away.

Theres not many people who truly listen and that hurts the world.