Re: Please Don't
 

Without having a personal relationship with any of these men who are ranting about systemic racism, I can't teach them anything. I can only put the facts out there, hope someone reads it, and thinks about it long enough to figure things out.

It is up to each person to inform themselves. We can put the information out there - information that is readily available anywhere, to anyone who wants to know the truth - but we can't listen for them. These are guys who grew up with people telling them one thing, which happens to be founded on complete lies. And this is where that mentorship thing that you and I discussed the other day comes in. These guys need someone in their life that they trust to knock some sense into them.

In the meantime, I'm not going to stand for the preposterous accusation that WE are not listening. We've listened long enough. White conservatives have allowed themselves to be talked down into feeling guilty for something they have nothing to do with, for far too long. I'm not going to play that game. This isn't the time for playing nice with people who are filled with hate. I'm not talking about black people, as a whole. I'm talking about liberals of any color.

There are black people who want to be left alone, who are having their homes and businesses destroyed by both black and white people who presume to speak for ALL black people. Those are the people I feel for. They need our prayers and any help we can provide.

What is my end game? Getting people to look in the mirror.

Re: Please Don't
 

You speak so well that I understood all of that the first time you said it. I replied "I have not disagreed with anything that you or Danno have said and fully understand your points."

If you want to draw a hard line with people that obviously struggle with articulation, then do so.

You aren't listening to them, you didn't listen to me the first time that i said I understood you, and I expect another 4-6 paragraphs waiting for me in the morning saying the same thing but worded differently.

The only thing I ever asked was for us to not let what is going on outside cause destruction inside. You want to argue and be caustic... go at it. I wont get in your angry way.

Re: Please Don't
 

With all due respect, you just displayed an incredible amount of hypocrisy. You're accusing me of being angry, argumentative and "caustic", when I have remained calm, albeit firm in my convictions (big difference between that and just being angry), and I haven't said anything in a sarcastic way. You, on the other hand, as per usual, claim I didn't understand you or, now, that I didn't "listen" to you, and you're blowing a gasket because I won't buckle to your position.

This has been going on for about a year since you came back to the forum. No matter what it is, if I disagree with you, you think I didn't understand you. Does it ever occur to you that you and I do not align in our opinions, and that I am merely offering a counterpoint to yours? You don't have to agree with me anymore than I need to agree with you. But don't act like the problem is because I don't "get" you.

I responded to your first post, and you replied with some questions for me. One was how do we teach men the value of listening. I responded. The other was what is my end game. I responded. In what way have I repeated myself, other than reiterating one or two statements that bear repeating, because, despite your insistence that you agreed with me the first time, your comments did not reflect that you were representing, much less agreeing with what I said.

You're still telling me I need to "listen". I thought I made my stance on that clear once, then a second time when you repeated the issue, and now it's come up again. If you don't wish to hear my opinion repeated (so much for listening, right?) then perhaps you should stop asking the same question, or raising the same issue.

WHAT do you want me to hear? That "systemic racism" is real? That is FACTUALLY incorrect, Oak. Do you want me to "listen" to people telling me that I am a racist if I don't agree? That's not happening. I've heard every argument that has come from this group of people in question. Am I supposed to agree? Just so they can "feel" like I listened?

I know you claim that "The only thing I ever asked was for us to not let what is going on outside cause destruction inside". This is almost always what happens when I disagree with you. You claim you were "only saying this" fill in the blank. But, actually, YOU kept saying we needed to listen. I stated my case on that, to which your response boiled down to "I understand and agree with you 100%, but you need to listen and not just be heard"... In other words, you DIDN'T agree with me. Which brought us to round two, and now round three.

IF you were "only saying" let's not fight amongst ourselves, I'd agree. That's not the only thing you said. I was civil with you. Disagreeing or arguing a point is not fighting if you can remain calm. It is you who has taken offense and failed to listen to a word I've said, as evidenced by your complete mischaracterization of my position as "not listening". You sound exactly like the left when you say that.