USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents

rezburna · 10-22-2020, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I made this point in the off-season and a bunch of the Saints beat reporters quickly tried to correct me, saying Jenkins will bring a veteran presence and is better in coverage.

So far he looks just as useless as his first stint here and the D as a whole look confused. After a big play you just see them looking around like who's fault was that?

Vonn was a turnover machine with forced fumbles too, our D is shockingly last in the league in turnovers generated.

I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.

ChrisXVI · 10-22-2020, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.

Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.

gosaints1 · 10-23-2020, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.

I use the DVOA rankings as their algorithm is more appropriate to the real game..., and not fantasy football. For example. A RB rushes four times for a total of four yards in a game, that’s all he does. While another RB rushes four times for 60 yards. Which one had a greater impact on their respective team? It’s not always the higher yards. The RB with four yards may have been responsible for four first downs, allowing drives to continue while the other RB’s offense may have been in 4th and 20 on each of his 15 yard runs (4 rushes 60 yards), effectively doing nothing to help his team. Their algorithm also accounts for garbage time stats, among many other things. Here is their explanation:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

And here are the rankings, you can slide down from year to year. Their rankings may not be your cup of tea, but I find them to be extremely valuable when looking at real game, tangible analytics. As opposed to fantasy football stats.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020

Many differing analytics to use though, find one you agree with on a philosophical level..., but, a static metric like yards allowed rarely, if ever tells the whole story.

rezburna · 10-23-2020, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.

PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here.

jeanpierre · 10-23-2020, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here.

Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball...

Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has...

rezburna · 10-23-2020, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball...

Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has...

Bell forced 2 fumbles last year to Jenkins 4. Neither have done that this year. Bell was mediocre, he just looked a lot better than he did coming in.

K Major · 10-22-2020, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.

We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it.

DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

ChrisXVI · 10-22-2020, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it.

DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

I agree that Dennis Allen is trash for sure.

10-22-2020, 05:16 PM	#1
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,110	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by dizzle88 I made this point in the off-season and a bunch of the Saints beat reporters quickly tried to correct me, saying Jenkins will bring a veteran presence and is better in coverage. So far he looks just as useless as his first stint here and the D as a whole look confused. After a big play you just see them looking around like who's fault was that? Vonn was a turnover machine with forced fumbles too, our D is shockingly last in the league in turnovers generated. I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper. gosaints1 and K Major like this.

10-22-2020, 07:55 PM	#2
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by rezburna I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper. Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.

10-23-2020, 08:00 AM	#3
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference. I use the DVOA rankings as their algorithm is more appropriate to the real game..., and not fantasy football. For example. A RB rushes four times for a total of four yards in a game, that’s all he does. While another RB rushes four times for 60 yards. Which one had a greater impact on their respective team? It’s not always the higher yards. The RB with four yards may have been responsible for four first downs, allowing drives to continue while the other RB’s offense may have been in 4th and 20 on each of his 15 yard runs (4 rushes 60 yards), effectively doing nothing to help his team. Their algorithm also accounts for garbage time stats, among many other things. Here is their explanation: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods And here are the rankings, you can slide down from year to year. Their rankings may not be your cup of tea, but I find them to be extremely valuable when looking at real game, tangible analytics. As opposed to fantasy football stats. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020 Many differing analytics to use though, find one you agree with on a philosophical level..., but, a static metric like yards allowed rarely, if ever tells the whole story.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

10-23-2020, 08:47 AM	#4
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,110	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference. PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here. ChrisXVI likes this.
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10-23-2020, 09:37 AM	#5
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by rezburna PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here. Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball... Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has... Rugby Saint II, dizzle88 and ChrisXVI like this.

10-23-2020, 10:22 AM	#6
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 8,110	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by jeanpierre Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball... Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has... Bell forced 2 fumbles last year to Jenkins 4. Neither have done that this year. Bell was mediocre, he just looked a lot better than he did coming in.

10-22-2020, 08:09 PM	#7
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,838 Blog Entries: 3	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by rezburna I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper. We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it. DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

10-22-2020, 08:14 PM	#8
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: USA Today Saints Wire \| Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents Originally Posted by K Major We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it. DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash. I agree that Dennis Allen is trash for sure.