New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

New Orleans Saints Forums - blackandgold.com (https://blackandgold.com/community/)
-   Saints (https://blackandgold.com/saints/)
-   -   USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents (https://blackandgold.com/saints/99437-usa-today-saints-wire-amid-contract-year-saints-safety-marcus-williams-changes.html)

jeanpierre 10-21-2020 03:20 PM
USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 

jeanpierre 10-21-2020 03:21 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Looks like we're losing another safety - Buh-bye, Mr. Marcus...

K Major 10-21-2020 03:34 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
I hope the front office brass and coaches review his entire body of work closely and ultimately move on from Marcus Williams in 2021.

dizzle88 10-21-2020 03:48 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Contract year? Ha!

turbo_dog 10-21-2020 05:49 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
I'm all for him hiring a new agent if he thinks his current one isn't doing a good job. His performance on the field is probably more important, though.

saintsfan1976 10-21-2020 07:11 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Disappointed in the second "this is the year" Marcus.

Rugby Saint II 10-22-2020 12:32 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
This is how he plays in a contract year with everything on the line? This doesn't bode well for a second generous contract with the Saints. Maybe his new agent is a film editor and can change all the plays coaches will be reviewing. :wink:

The Dude 10-22-2020 12:43 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
This guy is a huge head scratcher. He usually leads the team in interceptions and just when you think the lightbulb was going to turn on he gets beat for huge gains some of which are game changers. During his rookie season I thought he was going to have a better career than Lattimore. A change of scenery is the best thing for him. Put the Minnesota Miracle behind him. I just hope he doesn’t wind up in the division.

dizzle88 10-22-2020 01:57 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 900587)
This guy is a huge head scratcher. He usually leads the team in interceptions and just when you think the lightbulb was going to turn on he gets beat for huge gains some of which are game changers. During his rookie season I thought he was going to have a better career than Lattimore. A change of scenery is the best thing for him. Put the Minnesota Miracle behind him. I just hope he doesn’t wind up in the division.
His ball skills are truly incredible when he has that light bulb moment. I remember when he grabbed 2 picks vs bucs in his rookie year, I thought we had the next best safety in the league.

Not to mention the huge int he had right before the minnesota mess up. He's feast or famine unfortunately, this year though, the entire secondary is atrocious.

iceshack149 10-22-2020 03:29 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
The Saints Safety's and Corner's seem to leave here and do better elsewhere. Curious.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 03:44 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 900592)
The Saints Safety's and Corner's seem to leave here and do better elsewhere. Curious.
And then come back and suck again a la Malcolm Jenkins and PRob.

The Dude 10-22-2020 03:47 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 900590)
His ball skills are truly incredible when he has that light bulb moment. I remember when he grabbed 2 picks vs bucs in his rookie year, I thought we had the next best safety in the league.

Not to mention the huge int he had right before the minnesota mess up. He's feast or famine unfortunately, this year though, the entire secondary is atrocious.
This is why I never bought into the idea that defenses are a step ahead of the offenses in camp and preseason. Lots of teams are having a tough time on D this year even though they have the personnel to be good. There is too much talent on our defense to be this bad. Our secondary comes out slow for the first two games every year even when they have a full offseason. This week is put up or shut up time for our defense. No more excuses.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 04:00 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Oregon’s Jevon Holland in the first round next year.

K Major 10-22-2020 04:02 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceshack149 (Post 900592)
The Saints Safety's and Corner's seem to leave here and do better elsewhere. Curious.
Coaching?

I'd never confuse Dennis Allen with Jim Schwartz.

rezburna 10-22-2020 04:20 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
We need a change in our defensive coordinator and secondary coach. I think what they ask of him is not his skill set.

As far as our defense is concerned, it’s ranked in the top 10. They aren’t the problem.

dizzle88 10-22-2020 04:46 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Letting Vonn Bell leave was so stupid.

jeanpierre 10-22-2020 04:53 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider...

He was the second highest rated safety in the NFL his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary...

Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays...

So is it the player or the coaching/scheme?

dizzle88 10-22-2020 04:56 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 900600)
Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider...

He was the second highest rated safety his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary...

Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays...

So is it the player or the coaching/scheme?
I think its always been the scheme, but Dennis Allen has a job for life whilst Payton is around.

In Latts case though, he has something else going on. The fact that he can't get himself amped up unless it's against Mike Evans is troubling.

rezburna 10-22-2020 04:57 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 900600)
Know I can be a bit of an apologist for Mr. Marcus as I'm a big fan of his, but there's a couple of points to consider...

He was the second highest rated safety his rookie year and he has regressed - and it's not just him, but the entire secondary...

Lattimore has regressed; Crawley came out great and regressed; Apple was playing great, injury, never the same; Jackrabbit was a second shut-down CB and then he started giving up big plays...

So is it the player or the coaching/scheme?
Definitely scheme. How often do you see Williams single high safety having to cover the entirety of the field? He ain’t Earl Thomas. He ain’t Ed Reed. Only special athletes can do that. If he’s the single high in a cover 3 that’s cool ever now and then, but in cover 1? He ain’t that. They need to run 2 man under and Cover 2. They’d do a lot better keeping **** in front of them in cover 2 and just coming up for the tackle. Take Anzalone out and put Jenkins in as the “LB” dropping deep.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 05:05 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 900598)
Letting Vonn Bell leave was so stupid.
You’ve hit on a major point here that I’ve been thinking about this season. Vonn Bell was the “captain” of the secondary who made all of the adjustments. Those guys grew together over the years and had developed their way of communicating on the field.

Why did we let Vonn Bell go?!? I truly think the reason our secondary has become so mediocre is solely because of Vonn leaving. We made the wrong choice.

dizzle88 10-22-2020 05:13 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900603)
You’ve hit on a major point here that I’ve been thinking about this season. Vonn Bell was the “captain” of the secondary who made all of the adjustments. Those guys grew together over the years and had developed their way of communicating on the field.

Why did we let Vonn Bell go?!? I truly think the reason our secondary has become so mediocre is solely because of Vonn leaving. We made the wrong choice.
I made this point in the off-season and a bunch of the Saints beat reporters quickly tried to correct me, saying Jenkins will bring a veteran presence and is better in coverage.

So far he looks just as useless as his first stint here and the D as a whole look confused. After a big play you just see them looking around like who's fault was that?

Vonn was a turnover machine with forced fumbles too, our D is shockingly last in the league in turnovers generated.

rezburna 10-22-2020 05:16 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 900604)
I made this point in the off-season and a bunch of the Saints beat reporters quickly tried to correct me, saying Jenkins will bring a veteran presence and is better in coverage.

So far he looks just as useless as his first stint here and the D as a whole look confused. After a big play you just see them looking around like who's fault was that?

Vonn was a turnover machine with forced fumbles too, our D is shockingly last in the league in turnovers generated.
I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.

K Major 10-22-2020 07:35 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle88 (Post 900598)
Letting Vonn Bell leave was so stupid.
Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy.

We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 07:55 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 900605)
I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.
Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 07:57 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 900609)
Bell is limited. He's performed poorly thus far in Cincy.

We would have the same issues if he was still in New Orleans.
But we didn’t have the same issue when he was in New Orleans.

K Major 10-22-2020 08:09 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 900605)
I disagree on this one. Von Bell is grading out horribly over there in Cincy, and we’re rated a position higher in pass defense than we were last year. The issues that persist with the Saints defense have been consistent. Pass interference, third downs, and giving up big plays at bad times. That was here when Bell was here. It was here when Byrd was here. It’s been like that since the loss of Sharper.
We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it.

DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.

ChrisXVI 10-22-2020 08:14 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by K Major (Post 900613)
We can have Ed Reed and Earl Thomas in his prime back there and somehow they will look bad in New Orleans. It's very rare that you have 4 DB's looking bad in the same game. That speaks to the coordinator. You gotta simplify it.

DENNIS ALLEN's scheme is trash.
I agree that Dennis Allen is trash for sure.

Cruize 10-23-2020 12:41 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Great rookie season until the Vikes debacle. He just hasn't looked the same since. Decent ball skills. Below average tackler. Playing safety in today's NFL is brutal. You can't hit anyone. If you touch anyone you're flagged. Vertical routes are ran on every passing down. And the NFL has a lot of freakishly talented TE's. If any team offers him above average to high end money, he shouldn't need an agent to sign the deal.

TheOak 10-23-2020 04:47 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900603)
You’ve hit on a major point here that I’ve been thinking about this season. Vonn Bell was the “captain” of the secondary who made all of the adjustments. Those guys grew together over the years and had developed their way of communicating on the field.

Why did we let Vonn Bell go?!? I truly think the reason our secondary has become so mediocre is solely because of Vonn leaving. We made the wrong choice.
When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre?

Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. .

In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh.

Vonn Bell years 2016-2019
2016 31st
2017 18th
2018 29th
2019 19th


Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that.

gosaints1 10-23-2020 08:00 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900611)
Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.
I use the DVOA rankings as their algorithm is more appropriate to the real game..., and not fantasy football. For example. A RB rushes four times for a total of four yards in a game, that’s all he does. While another RB rushes four times for 60 yards. Which one had a greater impact on their respective team? It’s not always the higher yards. The RB with four yards may have been responsible for four first downs, allowing drives to continue while the other RB’s offense may have been in 4th and 20 on each of his 15 yard runs (4 rushes 60 yards), effectively doing nothing to help his team. Their algorithm also accounts for garbage time stats, among many other things. Here is their explanation:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods

And here are the rankings, you can slide down from year to year. Their rankings may not be your cup of tea, but I find them to be extremely valuable when looking at real game, tangible analytics. As opposed to fantasy football stats.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020

Many differing analytics to use though, find one you agree with on a philosophical level..., but, a static metric like yards allowed rarely, if ever tells the whole story.

gosaints1 10-23-2020 08:08 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOak (Post 900634)
When was our secondary consistently better than mediocre?

Mediocre for a Saints defense or an NFL defense?... I looked all the way back to 2007 and we haven't been better than 18th in the league for pass defense every year except the ones noted below. .

In 2013 we were 2nd and in 2010 we were 4rh.

Vonn Bell years 2016-2019
2016 31st
2017 18th
2018 29th
2019 19th


Lewis has a great year and Lattimore had a great year or so years but nothing more than that.
Pass Defense Rankings by DVOA for the Saints:

2020 - 14th
2019 - 10th
2018 - 12th
2017 - 5th

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...m-defense/2020

rezburna 10-23-2020 08:47 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900611)
Who’s doing this “grading?” Please don’t tell me you as a football player are using PFF as a reference.
PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here.

ChrisXVI 10-23-2020 08:55 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Hey Rez, are there any safeties in the college game that you think we should look at in the draft?

rezburna 10-23-2020 09:04 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900643)
Hey Rez, are there any safeties in the college game that you think we should look at in the draft?
I don’t know if we’ll be able to get him, but I love Trevon Moehrig from TCU. Him and Jaycee Horn are two DB’s that really flash for me. Horn plays corner for South Carolina. What I like about both of them, they have no issue with just swatting the ball. It doesn’t always have to be an interception. Let the receiver go and attack the ball. An incomplete pass is PERFECTLY fine.

jeanpierre 10-23-2020 09:37 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezburna (Post 900642)
PFF is hit or miss, but I think it’s pretty spot on when it comes to Von Bell. His play here was really no different than Jenkins or Harper. I see splash plays from Jenkins where he makes a great open field tackle or applies pressure to the QB coming off the age. Again, those kind of things have been consistent from that position. You also see them get beat in pass coverage. Now I don’t expect them to be perfect because they’re safeties, but Bell was just okay. Jenkins was much more impactful in Philly than Bell was here.
Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball...

Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has...

jeanpierre 10-23-2020 09:44 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900643)
Hey Rez, are there any safeties in the college game that you think we should look at in the draft?
Bubba Bolden, Paris Ford, Jevon Holland, Reed Blakenship...

rezburna 10-23-2020 10:22 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 900647)
Bell had become pretty adept at coming up, timely forcing fumbles via stripping the ball...

Haven't see that at all from Old Man Jenkins, who's had more missed tackles than great open field tackles, for which we brought him back and are paying him to make, not miss as he has...
Bell forced 2 fumbles last year to Jenkins 4. Neither have done that this year. Bell was mediocre, he just looked a lot better than he did coming in.

K Major 10-23-2020 11:45 AM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Due to covid 19, not really sure what's what in the 2021 draft, however the Saints need a safety who doesn't get confused in zone, miss tackles or bow down to the challenge of covering those big boy TE's man on man.

The lack of situational awareness & decision making on the back end is killing us & will do so again in the post season if not corrected.

rezburna 10-24-2020 12:16 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisXVI (Post 900643)
Hey Rez, are there any safeties in the college game that you think we should look at in the draft?
Say bruh, turn on the Oklahoma TCU game. Moehrig is all over the field. Excellent coverage.

K Major 10-24-2020 12:47 PM
Re: USA Today Saints Wire | Amid a contract year, Saints safety Marcus Williams changes agents
 
Check out this kid ....

Andre Cisco*, S, Syracuse

Consistent tackler with instincts.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 AM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page


Copyright 1997 - 2020 - BlackandGold.com