Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s

AsylumGuido · 12-09-2020, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Interesting topic .

I recall reading this on Saints report and someone pulled up a stat …

"In the Sean Payton era going up against back up/rookies (8 games or less), he has a record of 16-4".

We as fans tend to remember all those L's, however Payton has done extremely well with inexperienced QB's over the last decade.

We're 2-0 this year (Herbert and Mullens), or 3-0 if you count the Broncos game.

Boston Saint · 12-09-2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Interesting topic .

I recall reading this on Saints report and someone pulled up a stat …

"In the Sean Payton era going up against back up/rookies (8 games or less), he has a record of 16-4".

We as fans tend to remember all those L's, however Payton has done extremely well with inexperienced QB's over the last decade.

In fairness, to put this stat into context you’d have to know what other teams records were against QBs with 8 or fewer starts and what the records the QBs in those 20 starts Payton faced was against other teams. For example, 16-4 is a good record, but if the 4 losses suffered gave 4 QBs their only wins ever, and they were a combined 4-16 against all teams, then it is notable.

AsylumGuido · 12-09-2020, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

In fairness, to put this stat into context you’d have to know what other teams records were against QBs with 8 or fewer starts and what the records the QBs in those 20 starts Payton faced was against other teams. For example, 16-4 is a good record, but if the 4 losses suffered gave 4 QBs their only wins ever, and they were a combined 4-16 against all teams, then it is notable.

The faulty claim has been that the Saints are known for losing to teams with rookies or backups at QB. K_Major's quoted stat simply points out the invalidity of that claim. It really doesn't matter beyond that what record those four teams had against others. The fact remains that over the past 15 years that hasn't been the case.

Boston Saint · 12-09-2020, 03:15 PM

Well, Dude asked about “losing to a fair amount of backups/rookie Qb’s”. We could compare what “known for” is versus “fair amount” I guess. I named 3 off the top of my head. Maybe losing isn’t as accurate as “struggled with” because I recall a few QBs having near career days during the record setting awful D years. If a relative unknown guy threw for say...300yds and 3 TDs, but lost 42-38, did the Saints “struggle” with him.?

Boston Saint · 12-09-2020, 03:39 PM

I’m not being argumentative here, but here is my point. K Majors stat gives QBs with 8 or less starts that have faced the Saints 4 out of 20 (20 %) wins. Without knowing what the winning percentage is for every QB over the course of their first 8 starts, we don’t know if that’s good or bad. If the average is at 10% and Saints are at 20%, then I would say they are known for losing to backup QBs.

AsylumGuido · 12-09-2020, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Well, Dude asked about “losing to a fair amount of backups/rookie Qb’s”. We could compare what “known for” is versus “fair amount” I guess. I named 3 off the top of my head. Maybe losing isn’t as accurate as “struggled with” because I recall a few QBs having near career days during the record setting awful D years. If a relative unknown guy threw for say...300yds and 3 TDs, but lost 42-38, did the Saints “struggle” with him.?

Bingo! Therein lies the difference. At points in our historic past we have had a few "subpar" defenses. I know for a fact we gave up some huge games against inexperienced QB's with those defenses. But, how does that have any relevance when we are now sporting the #1 ranked overall defense in the NFL?

But it all circles back around to the main topic ...

"Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s"

I feel confident that question has been answered.

Oh, and Who Dat!

Lord_Saint83 · 12-09-2020, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

How can you guys forget Fitz-magic. Saints D made him look like a Hall of Famer.

Yea, I was at that game unfortunately

Boston Saint · 12-09-2020, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Bingo! Therein lies the difference. At points in our historic past we have had a few "subpar" defenses. I know for a fact we gave up some huge games against inexperienced QB's with those defenses. But, how does that have any relevance when we are now sporting the #1 ranked overall defense in the NFL?

But it all circles back around to the main topic ...

"Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s"

I feel confident that question has been answered.

Oh, and Who Dat!

It doesn’t have anything to do with the current D. He just asked who were some in the past...so I thought.

Boston Saint · 12-09-2020, 04:03 PM

Kyle Allen beat the Saints last reg season game of 2018. His first start ever it seems. Maybe that’s why it seems like a bigger deal than it really is...it happened fairly recently.

K Major · 12-09-2020, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

Yea, I was at that game unfortunately

Was Lattimore's performance in person as bad as it looked on TV? Probably the only game I can remember where Evans had any success on #23.

Fitz absolutely lit up our secondary.

12-09-2020, 02:25 PM	#11
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by K Major Interesting topic . I recall reading this on Saints report and someone pulled up a stat … "In the Sean Payton era going up against back up/rookies (8 games or less), he has a record of 16-4". We as fans tend to remember all those L's, however Payton has done extremely well with inexperienced QB's over the last decade. We're 2-0 this year (Herbert and Mullens), or 3-0 if you count the Broncos game.

12-09-2020, 02:49 PM	#12
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by K Major Interesting topic . I recall reading this on Saints report and someone pulled up a stat … "In the Sean Payton era going up against back up/rookies (8 games or less), he has a record of 16-4". We as fans tend to remember all those L's, however Payton has done extremely well with inexperienced QB's over the last decade. In fairness, to put this stat into context you’d have to know what other teams records were against QBs with 8 or fewer starts and what the records the QBs in those 20 starts Payton faced was against other teams. For example, 16-4 is a good record, but if the 4 losses suffered gave 4 QBs their only wins ever, and they were a combined 4-16 against all teams, then it is notable.

12-09-2020, 03:02 PM	#13
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by Boston Saint In fairness, to put this stat into context you’d have to know what other teams records were against QBs with 8 or fewer starts and what the records the QBs in those 20 starts Payton faced was against other teams. For example, 16-4 is a good record, but if the 4 losses suffered gave 4 QBs their only wins ever, and they were a combined 4-16 against all teams, then it is notable. The faulty claim has been that the Saints are known for losing to teams with rookies or backups at QB. K_Major's quoted stat simply points out the invalidity of that claim. It really doesn't matter beyond that what record those four teams had against others. The fact remains that over the past 15 years that hasn't been the case. K Major likes this.

12-09-2020, 03:15 PM	#14
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Well, Dude asked about “losing to a fair amount of backups/rookie Qb’s”. We could compare what “known for” is versus “fair amount” I guess. I named 3 off the top of my head. Maybe losing isn’t as accurate as “struggled with” because I recall a few QBs having near career days during the record setting awful D years. If a relative unknown guy threw for say...300yds and 3 TDs, but lost 42-38, did the Saints “struggle” with him.?

12-09-2020, 03:39 PM	#15
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s I’m not being argumentative here, but here is my point. K Majors stat gives QBs with 8 or less starts that have faced the Saints 4 out of 20 (20 %) wins. Without knowing what the winning percentage is for every QB over the course of their first 8 starts, we don’t know if that’s good or bad. If the average is at 10% and Saints are at 20%, then I would say they are known for losing to backup QBs.

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12-09-2020, 03:44 PM	#16
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,394	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by Boston Saint Well, Dude asked about “losing to a fair amount of backups/rookie Qb’s”. We could compare what “known for” is versus “fair amount” I guess. I named 3 off the top of my head. Maybe losing isn’t as accurate as “struggled with” because I recall a few QBs having near career days during the record setting awful D years. If a relative unknown guy threw for say...300yds and 3 TDs, but lost 42-38, did the Saints “struggle” with him.? Bingo! Therein lies the difference. At points in our historic past we have had a few "subpar" defenses. I know for a fact we gave up some huge games against inexperienced QB's with those defenses. But, how does that have any relevance when we are now sporting the #1 ranked overall defense in the NFL? But it all circles back around to the main topic ... "Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s" I feel confident that question has been answered. Oh, and Who Dat! Boston Saint likes this.

12-09-2020, 03:52 PM	#17
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by stickman How can you guys forget Fitz-magic. Saints D made him look like a Hall of Famer. Yea, I was at that game unfortunately RailBoss, jeanpierre and K Major like this.

12-09-2020, 03:53 PM	#18
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Bingo! Therein lies the difference. At points in our historic past we have had a few "subpar" defenses. I know for a fact we gave up some huge games against inexperienced QB's with those defenses. But, how does that have any relevance when we are now sporting the #1 ranked overall defense in the NFL? But it all circles back around to the main topic ... "Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s" I feel confident that question has been answered. Oh, and Who Dat! It doesn’t have anything to do with the current D. He just asked who were some in the past...so I thought.

12-09-2020, 04:03 PM	#19
Boston Saint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,874	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Kyle Allen beat the Saints last reg season game of 2018. His first start ever it seems. Maybe that’s why it seems like a bigger deal than it really is...it happened fairly recently. jeanpierre likes this.

12-09-2020, 04:07 PM	#20
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,048 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Question about Saints losing to backup/rookie Qb’s Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 Yea, I was at that game unfortunately Was Lattimore's performance in person as bad as it looked on TV? Probably the only game I can remember where Evans had any success on #23. Fitz absolutely lit up our secondary. jeanpierre likes this.