USA Today/SaintsWire | Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings

AsylumGuido · 12-29-2020, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Were you even watching the games when Kwon overtook Anzalone on the depth chart?

Kwon Alexander's addition made the defense elite; he gave us another coverage linebacker in addition to DeMario Davis; that allowed Dennis Allen the add'l option of sending either Kwon or DeMario on Blitz...

Since Malcolm Jenkins can't cover ala Roman Harper, DA has mostly used Kwon and DeMario in coverage, as they're our best (and really good) coverage linebackers...

Kwon Alexander's biggest problem has been missed tackles (terrible for a LBer), because he's been been out of position, mostly because he's still learning the defense, chemistry with his teammates...

However, Kwon has picked up the defense faster than some LBers and a certain SS who've had the benefit of training camp...

But if you look at when our defense really began to take off during the stretch run, it was when Kwon too over opposite DeMario Davis...

We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?

Rugby Saint II · 12-29-2020, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?

I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.

AsylumGuido · 12-29-2020, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.

What I saw is that the defense as a whole seemed to play better for a stretch that not only coincided with the arrival of Alexander, but also the arrival of a string of very weak competition. I tend to feel that the latter was much, much more of the reason for the uptick in quality of defensive play than one single player. I also saw our two worst defensive performances of the season with Alexander on the field. You can't have it both ways. You can't give him the credit for better play and turn a blind eye when the play totally stunk.

blackangold · 12-29-2020, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.

Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol

Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run.

You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got here... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run.

Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run.

My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams.

AsylumGuido · 12-29-2020, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol

Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run.

You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got her... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run.

Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run.

My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams.

All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional.

blackangold · 12-30-2020, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional.

I knew it!

It's okay, so am I.

jeanpierre · 12-29-2020, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier.

Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?

Fair Point, but two responses to counter:

First, NT Malcolm Brown, a key component to that run defense, was out; plus we started integrating Sheldon Rankins, who's more a pass rusher than a run defender...

Second, now that the team has a LBer than can cover in the pass, we're focusing more in stopping the pass vs the run; and nearly half those RuYds you refer were from four (4) big plays...

12-29-2020, 09:10 AM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,674	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by jeanpierre Were you even watching the games when Kwon overtook Anzalone on the depth chart? Kwon Alexander's addition made the defense elite; he gave us another coverage linebacker in addition to DeMario Davis; that allowed Dennis Allen the add'l option of sending either Kwon or DeMario on Blitz... Since Malcolm Jenkins can't cover ala Roman Harper, DA has mostly used Kwon and DeMario in coverage, as they're our best (and really good) coverage linebackers... Kwon Alexander's biggest problem has been missed tackles (terrible for a LBer), because he's been been out of position, mostly because he's still learning the defense, chemistry with his teammates... However, Kwon has picked up the defense faster than some LBers and a certain SS who've had the benefit of training camp... But if you look at when our defense really began to take off during the stretch run, it was when Kwon too over opposite DeMario Davis... We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier. Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch?
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-29-2020, 12:24 PM	#2
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,167	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by AsylumGuido We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier. Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch? I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me.

12-29-2020, 03:01 PM	#3
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,674	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me. What I saw is that the defense as a whole seemed to play better for a stretch that not only coincided with the arrival of Alexander, but also the arrival of a string of very weak competition. I tend to feel that the latter was much, much more of the reason for the uptick in quality of defensive play than one single player. I also saw our two worst defensive performances of the season with Alexander on the field. You can't have it both ways. You can't give him the credit for better play and turn a blind eye when the play totally stunk.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

12-29-2020, 04:55 PM	#4
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II I respect your opinion Guido. But I also respect that Kwon took us to an elite defense. We'll see if they can maintain that performance without him. My eyes tell me that we were always good against the run. You saw it too. However, he did help improve the defensive passing game...at least that is what my eyes told me. Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run. You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got here... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run. Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run. My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams. AsylumGuido likes this.
	The Saints are 0-42 when running the ball less than 15 times in a game.

12-29-2020, 05:08 PM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,674	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by blackangold Took us to an elite defense against the likes of SF, DEN and ATL.... lol Let's completely look past the absolute awful job he did against PHI... allowing multiple long runs because of his lack of gap discipline against the run. You guys talk about facts in this thread, but they aren't facts, they are your feelings. This defense will be fine without Kwon, just like they were against better competition before he got her... in fact, the longer Kwon played with us, the worse the defense got particularly against the run. Again... he is a decent LB, and probably the best on our team in coverage, however he is a liability against the run. My point- stop acting like the sky is falling because we lost Kwon, this defense was top 5 without him against better teams. All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional. Rugby Saint II and blackangold like this.

12-30-2020, 10:00 AM	#6
blackangold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,422	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by AsylumGuido All of the above. Dead on, blackangold. I'm saying the exact same thing, but I am, of course, delusional. I knew it! It's okay, so am I. jeanpierre likes this.

12-29-2020, 06:31 PM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: USA Today/SaintsWire \| Pro Football Focus: Top 5, Bottom 5 player grades from Saints-Vikings Originally Posted by AsylumGuido We had the #1 run defense in the league before Alexander showed up. We had by far our two worst defensive outings (Philly and KC) with Alexander in the lineup and Anzalone on the bench. Was he the sole reason for that collapse? No. Of course not. Just like he wasn't the sole reason for any improvement in the defense earlier. Like I said. Y'all are giving him far too much credit. Yes he runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. I'm sure that's one of the reasons he grades out so low via PFF ... being out of position. Yes he makes plays. But how many does he miss that we do not catch? Fair Point, but two responses to counter: First, NT Malcolm Brown, a key component to that run defense, was out; plus we started integrating Sheldon Rankins, who's more a pass rusher than a run defender... Second, now that the team has a LBer than can cover in the pass, we're focusing more in stopping the pass vs the run; and nearly half those RuYds you refer were from four (4) big plays... Rsanders24 and K Major like this.