Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report

dizzle88 · 01-08-2021, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

There is more to playing defensive line than sacks, diz. Granderson has the highest percentage of missed tackles on the entire Saints team at 22.2%. Davenport, on the other hand, is only one of two defensive linemen without a missed tackle all season. Malcom Roach is the other with far fewer chances. If Davenport gets a hand on the runner he's going down every time.

Whilst you are correct about there's more to playing DE than sacks, he should still be getting some. 1.5 this year is utterly terrible and all I ever see Davenport doing is taking bad angles, losing contain, beating the O line but running straight past the QB.

Where has the stat come from where Davenport hasn't missed a tackle? Because I can remember a bunch of missed ones right now.

Physically he is a beast, but I've frankly lost count of the amount of times he's overran the QB or gone too high for the sack and missed completely. 2 first round picks.

AsylumGuido · 01-08-2021, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Whilst you are correct about there's more to playing DE than sacks, he should still be getting some. 1.5 this year is utterly terrible and all I ever see Davenport doing is taking bad angles, losing contain, beating the O line but running straight past the QB.

Where has the stat come from where Davenport hasn't missed a tackle? Because I can remember a bunch of missed ones right now.

Physically he is a beast, but I've frankly lost count of the amount of times he's overran the QB or gone too high for the sack and missed completely. 2 first round picks.

Right here, diz.

Saints Advanced Defense

You've been seeing thing that aren't there then. You do not have to sack the QB to majorly affect the play. I'd figure that you knew that. Putting pressure on to force the QB to move from his spot changes the designed play every time. Yeah, sacks are splashy, but keep that QB off his spot is just as important. But, if you haven't noticed, Davenport has been more important against the run which is just as important. That's where he hasn't missed a single tackle.

iceshack149 · 01-08-2021, 07:55 PM

Remember this old toy? I think of Davenport when I see it.

dizzle88 · 01-09-2021, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Right here, diz.

Saints Advanced Defense

You've been seeing thing that aren't there then. You do not have to sack the QB to majorly affect the play. I'd figure that you knew that. Putting pressure on to force the QB to move from his spot changes the designed play every time. Yeah, sacks are splashy, but keep that QB off his spot is just as important. But, if you haven't noticed, Davenport has been more important against the run which is just as important. That's where he hasn't missed a single tackle.

Same to you Guido.

But here's an example, he goes up field and allows a big alley for the RB, technically he forces the guy back inside which is good but he goes for and misses the tackle and Demario cleans it up 10-15 yards later.

Whilst I can admit that he is good against the run, I'm not sure those stats are correct as I've seen him miss tackles.

I'm guessing missed Sacks aren't counted as missed tackles in those stats? Because he has missed a few of those too.

Yes Sacks are flashy plays, but for the price tag paid he should be getting them. When Trey is in Davenports spot, he racks them up, so why can't Marcus?

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2021, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Same to you Guido.

But here's an example, he goes up field and allows a big alley for the RB, technically he forces the guy back inside which is good but he goes for and misses the tackle and Demario cleans it up 10-15 yards later.

Whilst I can admit that he is good against the run, I'm not sure those stats are correct as I've seen him miss tackles.

I'm guessing missed Sacks aren't counted as missed tackles in those stats? Because he has missed a few of those too.

Yes Sacks are flashy plays, but for the price tag paid he should be getting them. When Trey is in Davenports spot, he racks them up, so why can't Marcus?

Missing a tackle is not the same as not getting to the tackle. Davenport was in position, as you said, to force the player inside. There's no way to assume he'd be able to catch the runner from that position himself. Any missed tackle on that play would have had to been on the interior. I suppose with a perfectly timed dive he may have got a hand on the runner's foot to trip him up. That would have been an outstanding play, but not a tackle that should have been made.

A missed tackle assumes the player is in position to make the tackle and fails to complete what should take place, not what could have taken place. When Davenport gets his hands on the ball carrier he is going down ... every time.

Football Outsiders describes missed tackles as "broken tackles", but it is the same criteria basically used by others in measuring missed tackles.

Broken Tackles

"Historically, we have defined a "broken tackle" (or missed tackle) as one of two events: either the ball carrier escapes from the grasp of the defender, or the defender is in good position for a tackle but the ball carrier jukes him out of his shoes. If the ball carrier sped by a slow defender who dived and missed, that didn't count as a broken tackle. It also doesn't count as a broken tackle if a defender gets a hand on the ball carrier but is effectively being blocked out of the play by another offensive player. We only measure broken tackles for standard plays; volunteers didn't have the time to track them for all special teams plays."

"This year (2014), we added a third category, "dragged" broken tackles where defenders were able to bring the ball carrier to the ground, but only after the runner had gained at least 5 yards from the point where the tackle started."

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2021, 03:07 PM

This helps matters.

The Dude · 01-09-2021, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

This helps matters.

https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...12925475299332

If we need those two to be out in order to win the game we aren’t getting very far.

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2021, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

If we need those two to be out in order to win the game we aren’t getting very far.

Did I say anywhere that we need those to out to win the game? Does it not help matters when your opponent is missing their top inside linebacker?

I remember that day and a half when you said you were turning a new leaf and becoming positive. Glad to see you back to your old self.

01-08-2021, 04:55 PM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido There is more to playing defensive line than sacks, diz. Granderson has the highest percentage of missed tackles on the entire Saints team at 22.2%. Davenport, on the other hand, is only one of two defensive linemen without a missed tackle all season. Malcom Roach is the other with far fewer chances. If Davenport gets a hand on the runner he's going down every time. Whilst you are correct about there's more to playing DE than sacks, he should still be getting some. 1.5 this year is utterly terrible and all I ever see Davenport doing is taking bad angles, losing contain, beating the O line but running straight past the QB. Where has the stat come from where Davenport hasn't missed a tackle? Because I can remember a bunch of missed ones right now. Physically he is a beast, but I've frankly lost count of the amount of times he's overran the QB or gone too high for the sack and missed completely. 2 first round picks.
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

01-08-2021, 07:48 PM	#2
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by dizzle88 Whilst you are correct about there's more to playing DE than sacks, he should still be getting some. 1.5 this year is utterly terrible and all I ever see Davenport doing is taking bad angles, losing contain, beating the O line but running straight past the QB. Where has the stat come from where Davenport hasn't missed a tackle? Because I can remember a bunch of missed ones right now. Physically he is a beast, but I've frankly lost count of the amount of times he's overran the QB or gone too high for the sack and missed completely. 2 first round picks. Right here, diz. Saints Advanced Defense You've been seeing thing that aren't there then. You do not have to sack the QB to majorly affect the play. I'd figure that you knew that. Putting pressure on to force the QB to move from his spot changes the designed play every time. Yeah, sacks are splashy, but keep that QB off his spot is just as important. But, if you haven't noticed, Davenport has been more important against the run which is just as important. That's where he hasn't missed a single tackle.

01-08-2021, 07:55 PM	#3
iceshack149 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 4,407 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Remember this old toy? I think of Davenport when I see it. Attached Thumbnails Boston Saint likes this.

01-09-2021, 12:47 AM	#4
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,534	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Right here, diz. Saints Advanced Defense You've been seeing thing that aren't there then. You do not have to sack the QB to majorly affect the play. I'd figure that you knew that. Putting pressure on to force the QB to move from his spot changes the designed play every time. Yeah, sacks are splashy, but keep that QB off his spot is just as important. But, if you haven't noticed, Davenport has been more important against the run which is just as important. That's where he hasn't missed a single tackle. Same to you Guido. But here's an example, he goes up field and allows a big alley for the RB, technically he forces the guy back inside which is good but he goes for and misses the tackle and Demario cleans it up 10-15 yards later. Whilst I can admit that he is good against the run, I'm not sure those stats are correct as I've seen him miss tackles. I'm guessing missed Sacks aren't counted as missed tackles in those stats? Because he has missed a few of those too. Yes Sacks are flashy plays, but for the price tag paid he should be getting them. When Trey is in Davenports spot, he racks them up, so why can't Marcus? Attached Thumbnails
	Your bonehead creator picked a fine chapter to omit from your memory bank....let me ask you, does a machine like yourself ever experience fear? - Vegeta, DBZ

01-09-2021, 10:01 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by dizzle88 Same to you Guido. But here's an example, he goes up field and allows a big alley for the RB, technically he forces the guy back inside which is good but he goes for and misses the tackle and Demario cleans it up 10-15 yards later. Whilst I can admit that he is good against the run, I'm not sure those stats are correct as I've seen him miss tackles. I'm guessing missed Sacks aren't counted as missed tackles in those stats? Because he has missed a few of those too. Yes Sacks are flashy plays, but for the price tag paid he should be getting them. When Trey is in Davenports spot, he racks them up, so why can't Marcus? Missing a tackle is not the same as not getting to the tackle. Davenport was in position, as you said, to force the player inside. There's no way to assume he'd be able to catch the runner from that position himself. Any missed tackle on that play would have had to been on the interior. I suppose with a perfectly timed dive he may have got a hand on the runner's foot to trip him up. That would have been an outstanding play, but not a tackle that should have been made. A missed tackle assumes the player is in position to make the tackle and fails to complete what should take place, not what could have taken place. When Davenport gets his hands on the ball carrier he is going down ... every time. Football Outsiders describes missed tackles as "broken tackles", but it is the same criteria basically used by others in measuring missed tackles. Broken Tackles "Historically, we have defined a "broken tackle" (or missed tackle) as one of two events: either the ball carrier escapes from the grasp of the defender, or the defender is in good position for a tackle but the ball carrier jukes him out of his shoes. If the ball carrier sped by a slow defender who dived and missed, that didn't count as a broken tackle. It also doesn't count as a broken tackle if a defender gets a hand on the ball carrier but is effectively being blocked out of the play by another offensive player. We only measure broken tackles for standard plays; volunteers didn't have the time to track them for all special teams plays." "This year (2014), we added a third category, "dragged" broken tackles where defenders were able to bring the ball carrier to the ground, but only after the runner had gained at least 5 yards from the point where the tackle started."
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-09-2021, 03:07 PM	#6
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report This helps matters. Twitter

01-09-2021, 03:54 PM	#7
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by AsylumGuido This helps matters. https://twitter.com/nick_underhill/s...12925475299332 If we need those two to be out in order to win the game we aren’t getting very far.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,060

01-09-2021, 03:59 PM	#8
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,622	Re: Saints Wildcard Playoff Injury Report Originally Posted by The Dude If we need those two to be out in order to win the game we aren’t getting very far. Did I say anywhere that we need those to out to win the game? Does it not help matters when your opponent is missing their top inside linebacker? I remember that day and a half when you said you were turning a new leaf and becoming positive. Glad to see you back to your old self.