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Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 918124)

You are using hindsight to criticize. Did the Chiefs make a mistake trading up to get Mahomes? And as far as free agency, do the names Fleener, Meridith, Byrd, and Bailey ring any bells. FA signings are as risky as drafting. And trading up to get the second all time leading rusher in franchise history is hardly a mistake. You can try to knock it by dividing his career into draft vs free agent years but that’s nonsense. I’m in no way saying the saints have made every decision correct by any means. But seem to be saying they’ve made every one wrong.

Yup. Name me another franchise that has made every decision correct. Hell, the glorious Patriots have had a multitude of dud draft picks. They've lived off of bringing in vets on short term deals to fill a hole here or there. They've also brought some in that they cut in short order.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 918096)

What is the supposed aggregate history that you claim proves your point?

:confused:

The Payton/Loomis era is far and away the most successful in franchise history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918098)

Most Saints fans know the history, should they get a pass for their gaffes because of the Superbowl win?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 918122)

Get a pass for what? I don't get where you are coming from on this. Do they (Payton/Loomis) need a pass for being in arguably the best division in the NFC for most of their tenure? They are getting no pass nor do they deserve any pass. The condemnation apparently exists mostly in your point of view.

You're evading the simple question - should Payton Loomis get a pass from any, all criticism because they won won Superbowl?

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918119)

'76, go through the moves the past years, analyze them, let me know what you come up with as I see crucial moves, but moves that also limited their ceiling...

Saving grace has been some hits in the mid-rounds in the draft and with UDFA rookies...

I only have to look at the records JP!

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918129)

You're evading the simple question - should Payton Loomis get a pass from any, all criticism because they won won Superbowl?

Of course not, if the criticism was warranted. I see very little area for criticism. Far, far less than most in their positions. They have done their best to put the Saints in the position to win it all more times than not over the past two decades. Unfortunately other factors come into play that can affect that ultimate success.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918129)

You're evading the simple question - should Payton Loomis get a pass from any, all criticism because they won won Superbowl?

No, they shouldn’t. Critical analysis, unbiased and unemotional =/= toxicity.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918129)

You're evading the simple question - should Payton Loomis get a pass from any, all criticism because they won won Superbowl?

No one is saying they should JP. But you act like it’s a chess game where all you have to do is make the right moves/decisions.

Since you like to pose questions as absolutes, I ask you “Should a coach/GM be held 100% responsible for everything that happens during a season and therefore fired if their team doesn’t win the SB every year ?”

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 918129)

You're evading the simple question - should Payton Loomis get a pass from any, all criticism because they won won Superbowl?

**** no. Hold they feet to the fire! But aye, a lot of people kept giving Drew a pass.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Quote:

Originally Posted by gosaints1 (Post 918146)

No, they shouldn’t. Critical analysis, unbiased and unemotional =/= toxicity.

Therein lies the issue.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

I don’t know what the hell people are talking about. I’ve seen/heard all kinds of criticism of Payton and Loomis; i.e. The Peate contract, The Davenport draft, the Baptiste draft, the lack of LB development, the bounty scandal..I can continue. I also have heard plenty criticism of Brees (FWIW I criticize the organization more than him). I have criticized both openly on this forum I believe.

What I have seen enough of is spoiled “fans“ not appreciative enough of what they have accomplished over the Loomis/Payton era and forgetting what it was like before. Too many “fans” not realizing what a privilege it has been knowing you are supporting a quality team that has been in the playoff race every season over their tenure and now predicting doom and gloom for the franchise from here on. Or enough people not enjoying what success they have had and trusting that the people who got them there in the first place don’t know how to get them there again. But haters gonna hate and I’d rather the team be underrated anyway...even by their own “fans”.

Re: 2021 NFL Free Agency: New Orleans Saints

Lets be honest division titles are nice and all and show a team is consistently good. But if i offered anyone what would you take of the two options below i'd be surprised if anyone took option A

Option A
49-15
4 Division Titles
One loss in the NFC Championship game

Or

28-36
0 Division Titles
1 Playoff Apperance
1 Superbowl

Nobody remembers division winners long term
The team has consistantly found a way to beat itself this past 4 years, barring the one loss to the Vikings in the playoffs where they beat the Saints line up all night they have pretty much blown every game they have lost in the playoffs. They kept pilling up the chips year after year and going for broke and if we like it or not the went bust trying to do it. Know you hope they can retool quickly and get back into contention. The worse possible situation happened in regards to the drop in league finances,but even without that they were still not in credit for cap space and would still have been having to push money down the road. Now that may not have been a issue to get deals done but it also hurts you if you get a player hitting FA. I don't think there is much doubt had the Saints been in a better financial position in regards to the cap they may well have filled in the joles in FA and then really gone after a QB like Wilson as the draft picks wouldn't have been as needed. But now they are at a point that they may be forced to trade up and give up future picks just to fill glaring holes at LB,CB and depth elsewhere. If they get this draft wrong it would be a very long year.

All you have to do is look at the current depth chart

DT which was a massive strong point in the past few years has gone from having Onyemata,Rankins and Brown rotating and Roach and Tuttle for back up to being Onyemata and Tuttle with Roach,Glasgow and Dalton as depth.

CB its Lattimore and Patrick Robinson(missed 22 games in the last 3 years). With Haley and Washington as back up or maybe PJ Williams.

WR, WR2 is Tre'Quan Smith
The career stat line of all our WR outside of Thomas
131 Receptions - 14 TDs.

I don't blame the team for trying to win it all but when you don't and the roster is left with these holes there is legitimate questions to ask. If Brees hadn't been the QB would they have risked everything for one last shot, i don't think so. Its felt like they threw all the eggs in one basket for Drew to get another ring and as much as people love him the team comes first.