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Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by CheramieIII He's not a top 5 or top 10 running back in the NFL yet and that's why no other team bid for his services. I will admit he did very well last year but one year ...

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Old 03-28-2010, 04:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CheramieIII View Post
He's not a top 5 or top 10 running back in the NFL yet and that's why no other team bid for his services. I will admit he did very well last year but one year wonders have come and gone in 43 years why don't we wait and let him do it at least 2 years in a row.
I agree.

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Old 03-28-2010, 04:47 AM   #22
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by CantonLegend View Post
know ur role, finish your contract the way you've been playing and you'll earn your new contract

im not a fan of players signing a contract then wanting more money before it expires

its 1 thing if the team wants to pay you more money for your services, the team that gave you an opportunity and carried you to a super bowl, the team that didnt leave you on the bench after your injury in favor of mike bell and reggie bush who were doing quite well without you, the team that was the #1 offense in the league without you

but sure, if you feel you deserve more money, then ***** and moan about not getting paid but remember that when you get hurt or underperform and that team throws you to the curb cuz you cant live up to that contract(charles grant) that you better not have any hard feelings
I agree with you, too. You get one of those "oh well, I tried to give REPS but wouldn't let me."

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Old 03-28-2010, 12:09 PM   #23
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by CantonLegend View Post
know ur role, finish your contract the way you've been playing and you'll earn your new contract

im not a fan of players signing a contract then wanting more money before it expires

its 1 thing if the team wants to pay you more money for your services, the team that gave you an opportunity and carried you to a super bowl, the team that didnt leave you on the bench after your injury in favor of mike bell and reggie bush who were doing quite well without you, the team that was the #1 offense in the league without you

but sure, if you feel you deserve more money, then ***** and moan about not getting paid but remember that when you get hurt or underperform and that team throws you to the curb cuz you cant live up to that contract(charles grant) that you better not have any hard feelings
Normally I agree with this approach, and if a player is already making millions I think that matters, but these guys don't generally have a lot of years to work with in the NFL. I think guys like PT - ones that have performed above and beyond on minimum deals - should be able to renegotiate. The guy could rip his ankle off in a pre-season game and thats it.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #24
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by CantonLegend View Post
know ur role, finish your contract the way you've been playing and you'll earn your new contract

im not a fan of players signing a contract then wanting more money before it expires

its 1 thing if the team wants to pay you more money for your services, the team that gave you an opportunity and carried you to a super bowl, the team that didnt leave you on the bench after your injury in favor of mike bell and reggie bush who were doing quite well without you, the team that was the #1 offense in the league without you

but sure, if you feel you deserve more money, then ***** and moan about not getting paid but remember that when you get hurt or underperform and that team throws you to the curb cuz you cant live up to that contract(charles grant) that you better not have any hard feelings

Hold on a sec, there.

I'm not a lawyer, but at its most basic, a contract is merely the "rules of engagement" between 2 or more parties. When a contract is signed, it is understood that the parties involved have agreed to the rules , and that all parties are going to draw some benefit from this arrangement which they all perceive as "fair" or "satisfactory".

You said the Saints gave Thomas an opportunity, yes they did, but they didn't give him this opportunity out of the goodness of their hearts. The FO signed Thomas like they sign many rookie players not drafted prior to the pre-season:to see "what happens", and it just happened that PT did a better job than the player the Saints drafted as RB in the 4th round.

Now we have a situation where PT is certainly more valuable than an undrafted rookie signed as a camp body to see "what happens", and is doing much more than an undrafted rookie signed as a camp body. So, while the contract he agreed to sign still stands, and the FO has no obligation to re-work until it ends, the question now is, given PTs performance the past 2 years, how valuable is Thomas to this team the next 4 seasons? If the FO thinks he's valuable, the FO is going to not just agree to, but want to re-write the contract to ensure PT's services in the long haul, and make sure his price doesn't actually go up if he keeps playing better. Of course, he could get hurt, he could play worse, Donte' Stallworth could run him over with his Bentley and kill him, but that's the gamble FOs take every time they sign anyone.

And think about it this way: what do you do for a living? Say, for the sake of argument, you get a job as a salesperson with Company X. 3 months later, they come to you and tell you "we want to make you office manager". The first thing that's going to go through your mind is "what's the raise?", but they tell you "no raise, you signed a contract to work in this office. You'll have more work and responsibilities now, but since you signed the contract to work in this office, your pay is the same". Then a few months later, they come back to you and tell you "hey, based on your performance, we want to make you regional sales manager". Again, the first that would go through your mind is "what's the raise?" Yet again, the higher-ups tell you since you agreed to work at this office in your original contract for a certain amount, you get no pay raise. At that time, I am sure you'll be preparing a resume to go somewhere else.

And that's basically what happened to PT:
Got hired to be a camp body.
Got promoted to 3rd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 2nd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 1st string - no raise.

So, like PT says, he's building his resume. If he doesn't get his pay raise with this firm, he'll take his talents somewhere else, and it would be a shame to lose his talent.

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Old 03-28-2010, 03:50 PM   #25
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
Hold on a sec, there.

I'm not a lawyer, but at its most basic, a contract is merely the "rules of engagement" between 2 or more parties. When a contract is signed, it is understood that the parties involved have agreed to the rules , and that all parties are going to draw some benefit from this arrangement which they all perceive as "fair" or "satisfactory".

You said the Saints gave Thomas an opportunity, yes they did, but they didn't give him this opportunity out of the goodness of their hearts. The FO signed Thomas like they sign many rookie players not drafted prior to the pre-season:to see "what happens", and it just happened that PT did a better job than the player the Saints drafted as RB in the 4th round.

Now we have a situation where PT is certainly more valuable than an undrafted rookie signed as a camp body to see "what happens", and is doing much more than an undrafted rookie signed as a camp body. So, while the contract he agreed to sign still stands, and the FO has no obligation to re-work until it ends, the question now is, given PTs performance the past 2 years, how valuable is Thomas to this team the next 4 seasons? If the FO thinks he's valuable, the FO is going to not just agree to, but want to re-write the contract to ensure PT's services in the long haul, and make sure his price doesn't actually go up if he keeps playing better. Of course, he could get hurt, he could play worse, Donte' Stallworth could run him over with his Bentley and kill him, but that's the gamble FOs take every time they sign anyone.

And think about it this way: what do you do for a living? Say, for the sake of argument, you get a job as a salesperson with Company X. 3 months later, they come to you and tell you "we want to make you office manager". The first thing that's going to go through your mind is "what's the raise?", but they tell you "no raise, you signed a contract to work in this office. You'll have more work and responsibilities now, but since you signed the contract to work in this office, your pay is the same". Then a few months later, they come back to you and tell you "hey, based on your performance, we want to make you regional sales manager". Again, the first that would go through your mind is "what's the raise?" Yet again, the higher-ups tell you since you agreed to work at this office in your original contract for a certain amount, you get no pay raise. At that time, I am sure you'll be preparing a resume to go somewhere else.

And that's basically what happened to PT:
Got hired to be a camp body.
Got promoted to 3rd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 2nd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 1st string - no raise.

So, like PT says, he's building his resume. If he doesn't get his pay raise with this firm, he'll take his talents somewhere else, and it would be a shame to lose his talent.
I agree with your logic TR but most definitely agree with the Stallworth comment.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:33 PM   #26
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by CheramieIII View Post
He's not a top 5 or top 10 running back in the NFL yet and that's why no other team bid for his services. I will admit he did very well last year but one year wonders have come and gone in 43 years why don't we wait and let him do it at least 2 years in a row.
Pierre was a very good RB in year, 1, 2, 3, and 4, and you want another
year?

It's not Pierre's fault his talent was not recognized in years 1-3. I hope they
pay the man, or let him go to where he is appreciated. I hope it works out,
because I don't think the Saints will be be the same team without Pierre.

Last edited by bobad; 03-28-2010 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:15 PM   #27
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

Originally Posted by bobad View Post
Pierre was a very good RB in year, 1, 2, 3, and 4, and you want another
year?

It's not Pierre's fault his talent was not recognized in years 1-3. I hope they
pay the man, or let him go to where he is appreciated. I hope it works out,
because I don't think the Saints will be be the same team without Pierre.
Career Stats Rushing Receiving Fumbles
Season Team G Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD Fum FumL
2007-08 New Orleans 12 52 252 21.0 4.8 1 17 151 12.6 8.9 17 9.5 9 1 0 0
2008-09 New Orleans 15 129 625 41.7 4.8 9 31 284 18.9 9.2 24 10.3 15 3 1 1
2009-10 New Orleans 14 147 793 56.6 5.4 6 39 302 21.6 7.7 36 9.9 12 2 2 1
Career 41 328 1670 40.7 5.1 16 87 737 18.0 8.5 36 10.0 36 6 3 2

Hey Bo,

I'll give you he was good in year 3. Definitely not year 1, average year 2 and year 4 hasn't been played yet. Sorry still not convinced. The Saints style offense allows players the luxury of being 1 of 6 or 7 targets on every play. Defenses can't key on one or two players and that's why the offense is so good. Pierre is a product of the team not the other way around. Pierre would definitely not be as good in another system. That;s just my opinion.

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Old 03-28-2010, 08:57 PM   #28
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

I love PT. Hes gonna shine again this season.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:07 PM   #29
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

first off id like to say that this is a very unique look at it and im not totally against it.....but(dont you hate it when theres a but?)

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
You said the Saints gave Thomas an opportunity, yes they did, but they didn't give him this opportunity out of the goodness of their hearts. The FO signed Thomas like they sign many rookie players not drafted prior to the pre-season:to see "what happens", and it just happened that PT did a better job than the player the Saints drafted as RB in the 4th round.
but there were 2 parties that signed it, just like you said.....PT signed the same "see what happens" contract and promised to play at the top of his ability by signing that contract. he has proven that he goes hard nearly every play....and he has earned that initial contract by doing so

Now we have a situation where PT is certainly more valuable than an undrafted rookie signed as a camp body to see "what happens",
i feel PJ Hill, lynell hamilton, and herb donaldson are very talented young kids

the question now is, given PTs performance the past 2 years, how valuable is Thomas to this team the next 4 seasons? If the FO thinks he's valuable, the FO is going to not just agree to, but want to re-write the contract to ensure PT's services in the long haul, and make sure his price doesn't actually go up if he keeps playing better. Of course, he could get hurt, he could play worse, Donte' Stallworth could run him over with his Bentley and kill him, but that's the gamble FOs take every time they sign anyone.
and if the front office feels that his price will continue to rise, then im sure they will try to get a long term contract to him......but they dont have to rush because he still has a year that he is tendered to play under. we can easily wait til next year to sign him when he is officially a free agent

And think about it this way: what do you do for a living?
remember that the NFL isnt like a normal 9 to 5 job tho

Say, for the sake of argument, you get a job as a salesperson with Company X. 3 months later, they come to you and tell you "we want to make you office manager". The first thing that's going to go through your mind is "what's the raise?", but they tell you "no raise, you signed a contract to work in this office. You'll have more work and responsibilities now, but since you signed the contract to work in this office, your pay is the same".
remember that no matter how many "promotions" he gets.....hes still a running back......hes not being asked to play QB or LB.....hes not getting promoted to a completely different job.....hes still a running back and he signed the contract as a running back

And that's basically what happened to PT:
Got hired to be a camp body.
Got promoted to 3rd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 2nd string - no raise.
Got promoted to 1st string - no raise.
did he sign a contract that said he only had to play in camp? no he signed a contract to play in the NFL.....now he is playing in the NFL.....that was the contract

does the company get to pay him less if he does a worse job? no.....contracts very rarely go the other way so i cant blame the front office for not wanting to make big contracts. we have been burned before by that mistake and im sure they dont want to make it again. PT isnt exactly invincible and has shown that he is pretty injury prone.......

So, like PT says, he's building his resume. If he doesn't get his pay raise with this firm, he'll take his talents somewhere else, and it would be a shame to lose his talent.
the NFL is a business......its cliche but its true.....PT needs to do whats best for him in the long run......although new orleans has proven over the past 4 years that they are a little different than the other teams in the NFL

look at what scott fujita did before he left because his heart is in NO.....jeff faine said the same thing about NO......and we even brought back deuce, the most beloved saint of all time, so he could get his ring that he deserved to get a long time ago

"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:45 PM   #30
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Re: Pierre wants new deal but will not skip work outs..

i'm not here to agree to disagree that p.t. is a top 5-7 or 5-10 r.b. but this guy has given 110% on every carry, and every catch this man made behind his back that 50 backs in the nfl would not have even tried to make. he has great balance that don't come often. to top it all off no one can get him down much on first contact. hes a top 5 back in my book. i think no one shows interest in him because it just a big waist of there time. the saints will counter with all offers, he's going nowhere!

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