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The debate about MVP

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by homerj07 DONKEY PENIS!! I keep saying - screw the League MVP - I want to see Drew get his 2nd SUPER BOWL MVP What's wrong with Drew getting both?...

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Old 01-03-2012, 08:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by homerj07 View Post
DONKEY PENIS!!

I keep saying - screw the League MVP - I want to see Drew get his 2nd SUPER BOWL MVP
What's wrong with Drew getting both?
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by papz View Post
Any one else feel that Matt Flynn's performance the other day helped Brees' chances?
I completely agree Papz.

Rodgers will get the nod, IMO due to his TD to INT ratio and the overall record but the true "Most Valuable Player" to their team is Drew Brees.
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Old 01-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by WHO_DAT_CAT View Post
Drew Brees

Completion PCT 71.2 %
Pass Yards 5,476
TD/INT 46-14
YPA 8.33
Att/Com 657/468

Aaron Rodgers

Completion PCT 68.3 %
Pass Yards 4,643
TD / INT 45-6
YPA 9.4
Att /Com 502/343

I don't think tipped balls for an interception should be a part of the evaluation unless a defender tips the ball and another defender recovers. Our own receivers tipping the ball happened many times this year to Brees. Need to see if I can find the number.

And, even though Rodgers threw, on average, passes for one more yard than Brees, Brees threw 125 more caught passes than Rodgers. Brees also threw for 833 more yards than Rodgers. This would obviously open him up to more interceptions.

To me the quarterback who has the most balls thrown accurately -- in a league where passing skill is obviously getting teams into the playoffs -- wins the argument for me.

I also think how many sacks or fumbles a quarterback takes should enter into the evaluation, because I see pocket-presence, mobility, ball security and elusiveness as important quarterback attributes. But his O-line's comparative ability to protect him and his center's ball skills would have to be part of the analysis. I'm having trouble finding/interpreting these numbers for Brees vs. Rodgers this year. Maybe someone else can help.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Brees lost the 2008 and 2009 MVP because of the Manning love, even though Brees beat Manning on every stat.
So, how is Rogers even in the mix? seeing that finely just kicked his but as a 2nd QB, apparently the talent is so good in GB anyone can QB. If its about stats, why didn't Brees win both years ?

Unfortunately that brings Brady into the mix. If your really looking for MVP, he is working with way less than GB or NO.

YAC and the RB

Saints
158 completions to RBs for 1199 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
GB
73 completions to RBs for 598 YAC....(4 RBs in top 300 YAC)
Pats
34 completions to RBs for 248 YAC.......( above )
Total YAC for each team (using top 300 YAC players)

Pats....2387 YAC
NO.....2299 YAC
GB.....1889 YAC

NO is more a short game team....2 RBs in top 15 YAC
Pats are so top heavy (4) in their weapons (2088 )YAC)...3 stars
Rodgers receivers has less YAC stars.....4 in the #23-#59 range


Saints are a amazing short field team, and based on 8 yards. Our QB's 1st responsibility when passing is to make 8, if another opportunity opens up he will bomb it down field. At least in SP mind, if you don't have a short pass/run game, you can be stopped.

Isn't it more applicable to figure out who is the best game manager?
YAC is interesting, but not understanding how a QB that throws 2 40 yard passes, and ends with a field goal, is better than a QB that short passes, screens, and places the ball perfectly for 15 plays, and gets a touchdown.

I would pick the second one. Rogers is a bomb machine

Plus throwing bombs relies heavily on receiver talent. Any of the 3 QB's in question can chuck it up to Megatron. Thats not talent, its just distance. And what happens when you cover that option ? Suddenly, and maybe what happen with KC and GB, your forced to find your short game, and beat a #1 defense, like ravens, by reading its weaknesses and carving it up, but your not good at it. So, GB lost.

Brees is the best manager in the game, but Brady doesn't have near the weapons we or GB has. So who is MVP

Time to make the DOMENuts !!!!

Last edited by pherein; 01-03-2012 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:00 PM   #14
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I think Matt Flynn just proved who the real MVP is.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by pherein View Post
Saints are a amazing short field team, and based on 8 yards. Our QB's 1st responsibility when passing is to make 8, if another opportunity opens up he will bomb it down field. At least in SP mind, if you don't have a short pass/run game, you can be stopped.

Isn't it more applicable to figure out who is the best game manager?
YAC is interesting, but not understanding how a QB that throws 2 40 yard passes, and ends with a field goal, is better than a QB that short passes, screens, and places the ball perfectly for 15 plays, and gets a touchdown.

I would pick the second one. Rogers is a bomb machine

Plus throwing bombs relies heavily on receiver talent. Any of the 3 QB's in question can chuck it up to Megatron. Thats not talent, its just distance. And what happens when you cover that option ? Suddenly, and maybe what happen with KC and GB, your forced to find your short game, and beat a #1 defense, like ravens, by reading its weaknesses and carving it up, but your not good at it. So, GB lost.

Brees is the best manager in the game, but Brady doesn't have near the weapons we or GB has. So who is MVP
I thought this was an astute analysis of Saints O-strategy vs. GBs & Lions O-strategy. GB/Lions have little or no run game and throw bombs (this is definitely true of the the Lions and less so, but also true of GB). The Saints read defenses and start carving them up with a variety of play types -- and when Brees sees a broken coverage down-field, bang! This is also probably why Brees' completion % is higher than Rodgers' even though Brees threw many more passes than Rodgers.

I thought the point about reliance on receiver talent, in terms of the MVP award, was also right on target.

But, what occurs to me about the MVP award, is that we don't know what criteria they are using to make the award, so, to me, it is almost impossible to make the right argument. I think, like you said, about Peyton Love versus Brees stats in 2008 and 2009, it just seems very subjective to me.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #16
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Brees MVP, no doubt.

No argument, just give it to him!

(And Flynn's performance absolutely SHOULD hurt Rodgers chances, not that he should win it anyway!)

Hell, I'd give it to Peyton Manning before Rodgers.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #17
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Who is the Most Valuable or the most Popular? If it's the MPP then give it to Rogers. But if it's the MVP, then give it to Brees.

Don't think so? Check the salaries at the beginning of next season, regardless of what happens the rest of the way.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #18
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So here's a question, if they aren't going to announce the MVP until the week of the SB, am I to assume that is when it will be voted?

If so, how awesome would it be for Drew to outshine Rodgers in the conference game? I'd say his chances would go way up.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:43 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CharityMike View Post
So here's a question, if they aren't going to announce the MVP until the week of the SB, am I to assume that is when it will be voted?

If so, how awesome would it be for Drew to outshine Rodgers in the conference game? I'd say his chances would go way up.
Thats where they stick their neck out. They voted yesterday (I think) so the MVP has already been decided.

Personally I couldn't care less about who wins the NFL MVP.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Danno View Post
Personally I couldn't care less about who wins the NFL MVP.
Generally speaking I agree with this, but Drew is so damned deserving, and he's already been robbed for MVP multiple times.

He'd never say so, but I'm sure it's something he'd like to achieve.
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