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O Line and disappearing protection

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by 228jits I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low: 2006 - 18 2007 - 16 2008 ...

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Old 07-21-2012, 01:11 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 228jits View Post
I know this is really picking the flies out of the garbage... The first 3 years of Brees donning the black and gold his sack numbers were significantly low:

2006 - 18
2007 - 16
2008 - 13

The following 3 years those numbers grew:

2009 - 20
2010 - 25
2011 - 24.

In 06/07 the starting line was:
Jammal Brown
Jamar Nesbit
Jeff Faine
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 08
Jammal Brown
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 09/10
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Jonathan Goodwin
Jahri Evans
Jon Stinchcomb

In 11
Jermon Bushrod
Carl Nicks
Brian De La Puente
Jahri Evans
Zach Strief


I understand that the sack numbers are low regardless of being mid 20's. Is there a way with the addition of Grubbs to bring back those Mid 2000 type numbers?
seems like the more sacks we take the more wins we have...

06 10 wins
07 7 wins
08 8wins
We had one good season

09 13 wins
10 11wins
11 13wins

I see a correlation to more sacks leading to a higher win ratio.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:23 PM   #22
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Jahri Evans has been the constant on the Oline. He's strong and smart. Every one else has actually surprised me when they stepped up........I'm still not a Bushrod fan. But he gets the job done. de la Puenta was our diamond last year I believe. Overall I would give them an A-
That's something to be proud of.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II View Post
Jahri Evans has been the constant on the Oline. He's strong and smart. Every one else has actually surprised me when they stepped up........I'm still not a Bushrod fan. But he gets the job done. de la Puenta was our diamond last year I believe. Overall I would give them an A-
That's something to be proud of.
Brian De La Puenta was an undrafted free agent.
Jahri Evans was a 4th round draft pick.
Carl Nicks was a 5th round draft pick.
Zack Strief was a 7th round draft pick.
Jermon Bushrod was a 4th round draft pick.

I think Arron Kromer is an unsung hero on the Saints sidelines. It seems since he's been with the Saints, the line is always greater than the sum of it's parts. And when you look at how supposed studs did after they left the Saints, like Jamaal Brown and Jeff Faine, it's just more evidence that the line is very well coached.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:44 AM   #24
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The Green Bay game last season sticks out in my mind...

The San Fran and Seattle playoff losses also showed they have trouble against younger, more athletic talent; thought the San Fran loss was mostly caused by turnovers, the Offensive line had its part in contributing to that as well; the Seattle loss Drew was harrassed and well their Tight End looked all world against a certain safety...

The Offensive Line has got some transition and had a nice surprise at Center last year; would like to see someone emerge as the clear cut Right Tackle; I believe (hope) that Grubbs will ably replace Nicks and provide a different hit in the running game as well...

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Old 07-24-2012, 04:54 AM   #25
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The weakness of the Saints' O-line is, in my opinion, both of the tackles.


Bushrod is OK, but he is not even close to the level of Evans as a guard, and that is why he should go after this coming season if he wants more money than he is currently getting.

Strief and Brown are in reality both subs and depth guys at best, but I hope that this year's 7th round pick from Nebraska, Marcel Jones, will emerge as a starting RT in 2013 with a year spent under Kromer's tutelage.

The Saints should try and draft a LT in next year's draft to replace Bushrod and become the starter for years to come, and I'd even be for using the 1st rounder to do that if they can have the right guy at the 32nd pick.

Bottom line is that with the contract Brees got and the importance of him staying healthy if the Saints want to stay as an upper level team, O-line should be a focus in the coming seasons, especially improving the tackles.

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Old 07-24-2012, 08:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
The weakness of the Saints' O-line is, in my opinion, both of the tackles.


Bushrod is OK, but he is not even close to the level of Evans as a guard, and that is why he should go after this coming season if he wants more money than he is currently getting.

Strief and Brown are in reality both subs and depth guys at best, but I hope that this year's 7th round pick from Nebraska, Marcel Jones, will emerge as a starting RT in 2013 with a year spent under Kromer's tutelage.

The Saints should try and draft a LT in next year's draft to replace Bushrod and become the starter for years to come, and I'd even be for using the 1st rounder to do that if they can have the right guy at the 32nd pick.

Bottom line is that with the contract Brees got and the importance of him staying healthy if the Saints want to stay as an upper level team, O-line should be a focus in the coming seasons, especially improving the tackles.

I think our OT's are OK, because Drew needs the middle protected more than the outsides. With the short drops, quick hitters and the fact that Drew must have back-up cameras in the back of his helmet, our OG's are the new OT's.

When Drew gets pressured up the gut, he looks very mediocre.

I think our focus in upcoming seasons should be D-line and LB. We threw some bodies at OLB and we have some young potential at DE and DT, but we just don't know if they will develop into good NFL players.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Danno View Post
I think our OT's are OK, because Drew needs the middle protected more than the outsides. With the short drops, quick hitters and the fact that Drew must have back-up cameras in the back of his helmet, our OG's are the new OT's.

When Drew gets pressured up the gut, he looks very mediocre.

I think our focus in upcoming seasons should be D-line and LB. We threw some bodies at OLB and we have some young potential at DE and DT, but we just don't know if they will develop into good NFL players.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I fully agree that the Saints do have a guard-driven O-line, which does suit the playing style of Brees. But the Saints don't really have any real depth behind their OTs and I still think that Strief should not be a starter and having such a strong pair of guards have helped the O-line to get away with shotty OT play - yes I'm looking at you Bushrod - but upgrading those positions would pay dividends with running plays and screen game as well as pass protection.

Sure there are other parts of the team that need upgrading as well, but as far as this O-line thread goes, it's clear to me that they need some upgrades on their OTs if they want the performance level to remain about the same.

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Old 07-24-2012, 01:04 PM   #28
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IMO, the Saints became incerasingly pass happy under Payton.
When Duece was pounding the rock there was much better balance.
Payton spoke often of 30/30, and then would have Brees sling 40+ times.
Brees has avoided enough sacks to have had 40 in any given season.
Many of the sacks he ended up with were 3rd and long, and without conversion,
we were punting anyway. Very few of those were blind side miscues. Thank you Lord!
Our O-line is fine.
I would love to see a more consistent 30/30 so Brees doesn't start to think that he has to
make everything happen or bare the full load for our success, and ends up with his pickle in a pickle.

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Old 07-24-2012, 01:54 PM   #29
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Would like to get a road grader at Right Tackle, but that would be a luxury as this offense has very few weaknesses...

The Left Tackle could be improved - but where do you find the money for such a player?

Keep drafting OL in rounds 3-5 and develop to replace those who want to break the bank as Nicks (don't blame him) would have done...

Offensive Linemen are important, but they don't pass or score touchdowns...
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:22 PM   #30
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It's really kind of hard to be a good tackle if you are lined up next to a poor guard, and vice versa.
Last year, week for or five, the O-line found it's groove, started getting some push,
and everything else started to work beautifully.
I think they will find that groove again this year with Grubbs and have another good season.
Our versatility makes it much easier for our guys to keep defenders on their heels.
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