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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Hehehehe......... OK, this should be fun. Maybe we can even get our own show. Like John Clayton and Sean Salisbury.. :P First of all I intend to show that council (WhoDat) has a personel vendetta against my client (Aaron Brooks) ...

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Old 07-08-2004, 12:37 PM   #21
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

Hehehehe.........

OK, this should be fun. Maybe we can even get our own show. Like John Clayton and Sean Salisbury.. :P

First of all I intend to show that council (WhoDat) has a personel vendetta against my client (Aaron Brooks) and I will show that Mr. WhoDat\'s evidence is CLEARY without merit or substance.

Your horor, if I may please proceed!!

Mr. WhoDat contends:

according to the Wonderlic Brooks is below the AVERAGE level of intelligence for ALL NFL players.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I\'d like everyone in the courtroom to raise their hand if they have NEVER failed a test? I\'d also like to submit into evidence an entrance exam taken by one of our country\'s greatest \"thinkers\", Mr. Albert Einstein.

This test shows that Mr. Einstein failed a simple entrance exam and in no way is a reflection of Mr. Einstien\'s intelligence. Your honor, I ask you, if Mr. Einstein failure to pass a simple entrance exam doesn\'t reflect poorly on his intelligence ... How can Mr. Brooks wonderlic score be held against him??

Judge rules jury to ignore Aaron Brooks wonderlic score!!

Thank you, Your Honor.

Now, Mr. WhoDat also contends my client (Mr. Aaron Brooks) is not an intelligent person based on:

and I\'ve seen it in his interviews and even in his play at times.
I have to bring into question Mr. WhoDat\'s credentials to evaluate my clients intelligence. Furthermore, how much insight can be gained by a few interviews when my client is in front of microphones and national TV cameras. Is there no one in the courtroom who does not do well when speaking in front of audiences? I\'d like to ask the members of the jury to raise their hand if they don\'t perform well speaking in front of large groups.

Mr. WhoDat, would you like to tell the 3 people of the jury, who have their hand raised, that THEY aren\'t intelligent??!!

Then Mr. WhoDat would like us to believe a couple of NFL scouts who say Mr. Brooks isn\'t intelligent. I submit into evidence a scouting report on one Mr. Ryan Leaf!!

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do you know where Mr. Leaf is today? He\'s out of the NFL and the last we heard he was washing cars down at the \"Soap and Suds.\"

I rest my case, Your Honor.

Judge: Case dismissed!!! :P :P



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Old 07-08-2004, 01:51 PM   #22
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

Billy, Billy, Billy.

It\'s a good thing you\'re not prusuing Law as a career.

You did exactly what I thought you would do.

1. You cannot deny that Aaron Brooks DID take the Wonderlic test, DID score a 17, and that a 17 is BELOW the average score of 21 among all NFL players. You cannot \"fail\" the wonderlic test, just as you cannot fail an IQ test. It tests your intelligence objectively.

\"Used by a variety of employers, the Wonderlic Personnel Test (WPT) is a general test of problem solving ability that many consider to be the best measure of intelligence. The WPT provides indicators of an individual\'s ability to cope with the complexities of any particular occupation. The general consensus among psychologists is that cognitive ability--as tested on the Wonderlic--is the most reliable predictor of an individual\'s professional performance.

Teams in the NFL have been using the Wonderlic as a tool to assess players for about 30 years, and it is a prominent and controversial test featured every year during the combine before the NFL draft.

The test itself consists of 50 questions that the participant is allowed 12 minutes to answer. The resulting number of correct answers corresponds to an intelligence quotient. Specifically, 21, considered an average score, is equivalent to the average IQ of 100. Higher scoring applicants are supposed to learn more rapidly, master more complex material, and exercise better judgment while lower scoring applicants tend to require more time, detailed task instruction, and less challenging job routines. 25 is the average score for quarterbacks and offensive linemen. Other positions average about a 20.\"

http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/existence/wonderlic.html

Thus, AB\'s intelligence is WELL BELOW the average for his position, and below the average for the NFL. Not only that, a score of 17 indicates that his IQ - a universally accepted measure of intelligence - is below the equivalent of a score of 100, making him less intelligent than the AVERAGE American.

At least you made one good argument - my opinion here is of no value. However the opinions of scouts are, as they would be considered \"experts\" at trial.

Now, experts don\'t always agree. I\'m sure that you can enter the comments of some of your own experts that have said that AB is smart, right? And I\'m sure that you can show test scores that show AB is intelligent.

You see Billy, in order to disprove my evidence you have to show evidence of your own to contradict that. Saying that Einstein didn\'t do well in school but was obviously smart is like me auggesting that Aaron Brooks must be on drugs b/c Dale Carter used them. Obviously, information regarding someone else is irrelevant.

It was a nice try Billy, but you\'re REAL lucky that there isn\'t anyone actually judging this b/c you definitely lost. Not your fault, your client is guilty as charged.

Finally Billy, on a personal note - you can continue to suggest that I have an agenda or vendetta against Brooks. However, I have conceded in his favor on numerous ocassions. You are still to admit he has ANY faults that you do not see to be immediately fixable. Your insistance that Aaron Brooks has NO FAULTS whatsoever (that cannot be repaired through time) show that if anyone\'s view here is skewed, it is yours. I have never seen a QB in my life, or any player for that matter, that had it all. No one is intelligent, strong armed but has touch, quick release and good footwork, the ability to scramble, read defenses, efficient, can throw the timing route, is a student of the game, a leader, etc. etc. etc. No one has it all... unless of course you ask Billy.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 07-08-2004, 01:55 PM   #23
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

I don\'t see Brooks taking time off from curing cancer to play football. He hasn\'t shown much in the way of intelligence.

But all that being said; I agree with Detiller. Brooks problem is a lack of maturity and mental toughness. In the clutch, Brooks folds. He pulls a Jeff George where he figures that his big arm will get him out of a jam and makes dumb decisions as a result.

He may have all the potential in the world, but Brooks major problem is that you can\'t count on him. Oftentimes Haz has gotten so enamored with Brooks potential that he puts the team down a cliff and then looks to Brooks to be the rope that pulls him to safety. The problem is that Brooks is a cut and frayed rope and you never know from minute to minute whether he will stay together long enough to get you to safety.

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Old 07-08-2004, 02:06 PM   #24
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

WhoDat -

Here\'s the problem, WhoDat. Read this quote by yourself:

but you really need to stop arguing that he is intelliegent, b/c it just isn\'t true.
You stated as a FACT that Brooks isn\'t intelligent. Then you told us that it was pointless to argue that Brooks wasn\'t intelligent, \'cause somehow you have this overwhelming evidence.

You can follow that logic, Right??

Now, you have the nerve for me to question the evidence that YOU laid out on the table??

There\'s NO doubt at ALL that your evidence DOES NOT prove Brooks isn\'t intelligent. That\'s just your OPINION based on what you chose to believe. Keeping up with me so far?? :P

Now as far as my evidence!!

1. Brooks graduated from a major university.
2. Brooks plays and excels at the most difficult position in the NFL.
3. Brooks was smart enough to capitalize on his early sucess in the NFL by holding out for more money and is now a multi-millionaire. Not bad. Not bad at all...
4. Brooks coaches and teammates have said folks really doesn\'t understand how smart Brooks really is.

What does my evidence prove? No more than yours. But, I ain\'t walking around here telling folks to stop arguing that Brooks isn\'t smart.

What you say, WhoDat??? :exclam:
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Old 07-08-2004, 02:31 PM   #25
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

What say I? You can suggest that my opinion or those of scouts are subjective. But you cannot say that about the Wonderlic.

Further, let\'s take a look at your evidence shall we.

1. Brooks graduated from UVA. Well, to get into UVA, all he needed to do was graduate high school since he was a resident of that state. In order to play he had to be cleared by the NCAA. Billy, have you ever applied for eligibility under the NCAA clearing house? I have, and I can tell you it isn\'t hard to get.

At a state school, as a football player, do you honestly believe that Brooks was held to the same standard as an \"average\" student? I cannot comment either way, but I can tell you that I was not held to the same standard and I ran track at a private school much more concerned about its academic reputation than UVA. Further, the major sport athletes were basically free to do what they wanted. Not just at my school, but at others as well.

Finally, graduating college DOES NOT make a person intelligent, it makes him educated. There IS a difference. I know 12 year olds that could graduate from state universities.


2. He does - but does that make him intelligent? Are you suggesting that intelligence is a REQUIREMENT for success at the QB position? Dan Marino scored a 16 on the Wonderlic. I have said in the past that Brooks does not have to be intelligent to play good ball. So why argue? But I\'d like to know, does a QB HAVE to be intelligent to excel at QB?


3. That\'s an agent and it\'s greed. That doesn\'t make him smart, it makes him not as dumb as the Saints - which ain\'t saying much in my mind.


4. For starters, what do you expect a team\'s players and coaches to say about their starting QB? This is totally irrelevant. Show me one quote EVER where any player of a team said that their starting QB was not smart WHILE THE QB WAS ON THE TEAM.


Again - I have shown expert opinions and objective tests. You\'ve shown no good evidence. Not one quote, not one test score, nothing.

But answer me this Billy, if Aaron Brooks is intelligent, then what\'s his weakness as a QB?

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 07-08-2004, 02:39 PM   #26
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

WhoDat --

We can rehash this all day, but here\'s what it all boils down to.

1. You stated as a fact that Books insn\'t intelligent. ( It\'s not a fact. Simple as that.)

2. The Wonderlic test is not the \"end all\" for intelligence. I\'ve taken all kinds of IQ test and they vary wildly. So, don\'t be telling me this PROVES ANYTHING.

3. You like to point out that scouts said Brooks wasn\'t intelligent. Well, they said he couldn\'t play QB in the NFL too. We ALL know scouts are wrong many, many, times.

And.......... 4. I have no idea how intelligent Brooks is or isn\'t. And you don\'t either. Now, there\'s a FACT for you.

But, keep on telling us how you KNOW.
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Old 07-08-2004, 02:48 PM   #27
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

2. The Wonderlic test is not the \"end all\" for intelligence. I\'ve taken all kinds of IQ test and they vary wildly. So, don\'t be telling me this PROVES ANYTHING.
Can you please name them? The IQ tests I\'ve taken have never varied by more than the equivalent of a few points.


You\'re skirting some important questions Billy?

1. Does a QB HAVE to be intelligent to succeed at the position?

2. If AB\'s weakness isn\'t intelligence, what is it? Does he have one?

It sure seems like you\'re running for the hills. That\'s OK, it\'s not a first.
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Old 07-08-2004, 02:55 PM   #28
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

You\'re skirting some important questions Billy?

1. Does a QB HAVE to be intelligent to succeed at the position?

2. If AB\'s weakness isn\'t intelligence, what is it? Does he have one?

It sure seems like you\'re running for the hills. That\'s OK, it\'s not a first.
I never skirt anything. That would be you. I\'ll answer your questions and be sure you answer the questions that follow. Simple yes or no answers please.

Answers:
1. No.
2. Brooks has problems, sure. He doesn\'t have the best \"touch\" on the ball. His pocket presence isn\'t the best.

Questions:

1. Did you state as a FACT that Brooks wasn\'t intelligent and told us to not argue the point because it wasn\'t true?

2. Is it a FACT that Brooks isn\'t intelligent?

3. Is it possible that you don\'t know the man well enough and you might be wrong?

[Edited on 8/7/2004 by GumboBC]
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Old 07-08-2004, 03:14 PM   #29
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

Weak.

1. No. I never suggested my post to be a statement of fact, opinion, or anything else. I strongly stated a belief.

2. Is it a fact? Hhhmm. Is it a fact as in the sky is blue, no, but then the sky isn\'t really blue now is it? Is there a perponderence of evidence to suggest that conclusion? Absolutely. In other words, yes, I think after hearing our arguments here today a \"reasonable person\" is likely to believe Brooks is not intelligent.

3. Sure that\'s possible. Just as possible as it is for you. Is it POSSIBLE that you don\'t know Einstein and that the man may well have been a moron? We\'re not talking about possibilities here Billy - as with everything we\'re talking about probability.


It is reasonable to characterize Aaron Brooks as a talented young QB who has taken strides to improve his game over the last few years. It is reasonable to characterize him as a player capable of excelling at the position. It is also reasonable to characterize him as of less than average intelligence and leadership ability.

You take issue with that final statement. You do so b/c your view is skewed. If you feel that the ONLY draw backs to AB as a QB are that he has poor pocket pressence and can\'t throw the touch, well, let me ask this: what are Manning\'s weaknesses? How about Delhomme\'s?

This will be interesting.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 07-08-2004, 03:24 PM   #30
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In regard to Psycho’s view on Aaron Brooks...

Weak.

Posted by WhoDat:
1. No. I never suggested my post to be a statement of fact, opinion, or anything else. I strongly stated a belief.
That\'s why there is never any winning with you, WhoDat.

Bill Clinton would be proud of you.

\"It depends on what your definition of IS, IS.\" A quote by Bill Clinton before congress in the Monica Lewinsky fiasco. Hmmmm.

\"I strongly stated a belief\" - A quote by WhoDat to define the difference between a fact and a belief. Hmmmm. Hmmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmm.

Posted by WhoDat:
but you really need to stop arguing that he is intelliegent, b/c it just isn\'t true.
Hmmmm. Hmmmm. Hmmmmm.

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