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Mike D on Brooks

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Well, I personally don\'t get why people compare AB to Deuce or Horn. I mean, let\'s consider: There\'s no question Deuce is having an off year so far. He started the first two games slowly, but then the scheme changed ...

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Old 10-20-2004, 10:11 PM   #21
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Mike D on Brooks

Well, I personally don\'t get why people compare AB to Deuce or Horn. I mean, let\'s consider:

There\'s no question Deuce is having an off year so far. He started the first two games slowly, but then the scheme changed and it made a dramatic impact. Then he got hurt. So his numbers are off and he\'s not completely free of blame. Of course, since he\'s come back, and while injured but with a FB in the backfield, Deuce has run for 200 yards in 2 games. More importantly, he proved he\'s a real top talent in this league two years running. In his first year as a starter in 2002 he was 6th in the NFL in rushing an in the top ten in yards per carry. Last year he was 4th in yards and 6th in yards per carry. If you add in his yards after contact, his blocking ability, rare combination of size and speed, hands, etc. it\'s hard not to call this guy a premier back IMO. He\'s top 5 or 6 no doubt and despite his slow start this season.

Horn may be an even worse comparison. He\'s been to the Pro Bowl 3 of the last 4 years. By default that makes him a top 5 or 6 guy. Last year he was hurt and had an \"off\" year that still had him in the top 20 WRs in the NFL. This year he\'s back in the top 10 currently at 9th - and that\'s after a few real bad games in which the Saints offense didn\'t do much of anything at all.

Brooks on the other hand has never ranked in the top ten in passer efficiency rating. Sure, he\'s racked up the yards, and one year the TDs, but I\'m yet to hear anyone other than AB or fans on this board refer to Brooks as \"top five.\" You may even be able to say that about top ten...

My point is, Deuce and Horn, IMO, have proved it on the field, and they\'ve received recognition around the league and in the media for it. Haslett and AB himself hype up Brooks, but very few people outside the team say that AB is top five or ten. Most say he\'s in the 12-15 range with the talent to be top 5 but the leadership and smarts to be bottom 10. That\'s what I\'ve seen and heard anyway.

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Old 10-20-2004, 11:00 PM   #22
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Mike D on Brooks

I personaly don\'t see why ya\'ll are so hard on Brooks........he didn\'t give up over 600 yards of off last week...as a matter of fact I saw Brooks trying to rush the offense to the line in a hurry up off.......WE DID SCORE 31 POINTS!!!!!!!...........Brooks makes mistakes but I remember Forcade and Hobert.........Is that what you want?.........Get a coach in there that can light the fire under their asses and get thru the season and into the post-season..............(I\'m going to the Raider game Sun In good spirits)...................

[Edited on 21/10/2004 by CHACHING]
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Old 10-21-2004, 12:00 AM   #23
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Mike D on Brooks

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!! I was gonna bite my lip on this one till someone wants to bad mouth John Fourcade... BTW you misspelled FoUrcade...

I know he was never a great QB, but he gave it everything he had cause he loved the game. I believe he was a player coach in an arena league till he was in his mid 40s... Brooks doesnt look like he loves the game and for sure he wouldnt give his all for the team. Brooks is a solid QB who can get the job done. Yeah we scored 31 points... what did we do against Tampa? how about Arizona??? Yeah nothing to say now... thought so...

Billy Joe Hobert was not as talented as Brooks is nor did he have the players we have. I wouldnt want him back, but lets get a QB like Bobby Hebert with heart and who would do anything for his TEAM not his stats... I remember Bobby leaving teeth on the floor of the dome... you think Brooks would do that?

It just seems that no matter how gutsy a QB we have is he doesnt have the TALENT Brooks has. Jake doesnt have the talent Brooks has, but he has been to a Super Bowl. Tom Brady has been to 2 Super Bowls and he doesnt have the arm or the mobility that Brooks has... SO why is it that he is such a great QB??? Cause he has the TEAM first not his stats... 2 weeks ago against Miami 7 of 19 for 76 yards, but they won... Yes the D is better than ours and sure they were playing the Dolphins, but you cant compare statistics with results... fact is Brooks has better numbers than a ton of QBs, but I would take most of those QBs over Brooks simple because of their leadership, heart, and team first attitude... When it comes down to it you have to compare more than just stats... why is NFL draft combine so important? Cause there is alot more to it than just looking at stats...

Im sure Im not the only person who knows stats arent everything... and Im sure others will disagree with a few things I said, but I hope you can at least get the point I was trying to make...

[Edited on 21/10/2004 by SycoSurfer]
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:00 AM   #24
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Mike D on Brooks

Thanx for the spelling lesson. He is not worth me getting his name right....Hebert....I agree had the heart of a lion.....I still think Brooks is the key to our success........Geaux Saints......
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:11 AM   #25
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Mike D on Brooks

I guess I\'ll have to go NoSpin like O\'Reilly. Time for a fact check.
Brooks on the other hand has never ranked in the top ten in passer efficiency rating.
The 88.8 in the 2003 regular season was tied for 7th in the league.
Sure, he\'s racked up the yards, and one year the TDs, but I\'m yet to hear anyone other than AB or fans on this board refer to Brooks as \"top five.\" You may even be able to say that about top ten...
Top 10 the last 3 years in TD passes. More TD passes over a 3 year period than any other Saints QB in history. Dropped the INTs from 22 in 2001 to 8 last year heading the pack for both least INTs thrown and highest TD/INT ratio.


The stats are all on http://nfl.com/stats . Even the 2001 stats are still there even though there isn\'t a link to it anymore. Simply choose a later year for the stat that you want, then change the year to 2001 in the URL.


My point is, Deuce and Horn, IMO, have proved it on the field, and they\'ve received recognition around the league and in the media for it. Haslett and AB himself hype up Brooks, but very few people outside the team say that AB is top five or ten. Most say he\'s in the 12-15 range with the talent to be top 5 but the leadership and smarts to be bottom 10. That\'s what I\'ve seen and heard anyway.
But Brooks has proved it on the field just like the other guys. And 13 come from behind victories in the last 3 years points to having some semblance of ability to put together talent and guts to pull out the win from the jaws of defeat.

That\'s what I\'ve seen anyway.

SFIAH

The Saints have been to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and a own a SB championship.

I can hardly believe this happened in my lifetime.
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Old 10-21-2004, 08:57 AM   #26
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Mike D on Brooks

Some snippage to keep it shorter...
Jake doesnt have the talent Brooks has, but he has been to a Super Bowl. Tom Brady has been to 2 Super Bowls and he doesnt have the arm or the mobility that Brooks has... SO why is it that he is such a great QB??? Cause he has the TEAM first not his stats... 2 weeks ago against Miami 7 of 19 for 76 yards, but they won... Yes the D is better than ours and sure they were playing the Dolphins, but you cant compare statistics with results... fact is Brooks has better numbers than a ton of QBs, but I would take most of those QBs over Brooks simple because of their leadership, heart, and team first attitude... When it comes down to it you have to compare more than just stats... why is NFL draft combine so important? Cause there is alot more to it than just looking at stats...
Another \"Jake has been to the SB...\" cat has been dragged into the conversation again.

You\'re trying to play both sides of the fence. It doesn\'t work. Either heart, guts and leadership wins football games, or team and talent does. But you simply pick whichever item helps your agenda. Let\'s take them one by one:

1. Jake. Defense and running the ball got Carolina to the SB. Jake\'s job was to manage the offense, just like Dilfer did in 2000. Simply ask yourself if Brooks and Jake had swapped places would Carolina not gone anywhere and the Saints would be hoisting up the Lombardi Trophy? I don\'t think so.

2. Brady. Think he would have won 20 in a row if he were a Cardinal for example? New England is the smartest, most talented team from top to bottom. Why do you think I say that we get Romeo Crennel in here?

3. Defense wins football games. Let me repeat: Defense wins football games. Last I checked the Saints defense was dead last (32nd out of 32 teams) in both points and yards allowed. You could bring back Joe Montana or Jonny Unitas and they couldn\'t lead a team to victories against those odds.

It\'s gotten to the point where Brooks haters blame him for the waterboy tripping over a cord on the sidelines. \"If Brooks were smart and had leadership skills, then he would have known to move the cord before someone tripped over it. But if we had Jake or Brady, then the WB wouldn\'t have tripped.\" Sounds ridiculous, right?

Im sure Im not the only person who knows stats arent everything... and Im sure others will disagree with a few things I said, but I hope you can at least get the point I was trying to make...
You point has little substance. Any team that gives up 605 yards and 5 TDs in a game is going to lose. In fact should be flat blown out. The Saints only lost by 7 and scored a TD the last posession they had the ball.

So I guess Brooks should have strapped it up, and gone out with the defense and played safety or something to get the ball back to tie the game. That\'s being a team player with leadership I guess.

The guy isn\'t perfect. He has his problems and his issues. But Sheesh!

SFIAH

The Saints have been to playoffs 4 of the last 5 years and a own a SB championship.

I can hardly believe this happened in my lifetime.
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:05 AM   #27
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Mike D on Brooks

Honestly this tangent about Brooks is beyond stupid, it\'s bordering on retarded,with the notable exception of the Arizona fumble, Brooks has done more than any other player in this organization to put the team in a place to succeed. Maybe everyone should look around the rest of the league, go ahead it\'s OK, do you know what an unbiased set of eyes would find? a sea of mediocrity, with 2or 3 goliaths. Brooks will never be a Manning,Mcnabb, or Culpepper, but are they the only 3 quarterbacks going to the playoffs?
Fact is, if we had even the faintest premise of a defence, co-ordinated by someone with the vaguest ideas of what schemes are achievable, and staffed with true professionals then we would be singing a different tune. Whatever happened to the fearsome Saints D ? I can\'t wait to see Haslett canned, I just hope that Mr.Benson hires a strong enough Personality to whip these inconsistent millionaire primadonnas,
too bad Coughlin is gainfully employed. : :soleil:

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Old 10-21-2004, 09:08 AM   #28
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Mike D on Brooks

Top 10 the last 3 years in TD passes. More TD passes over a 3 year period than any other Saints QB in history. Dropped the INTs from 22 in 2001 to 8 last year heading the pack for both least INTs thrown and highest TD/INT ratio.

One issue SaintfaninATL, did you factor in Brooks\' league leading 14 fumbles and 11 lost with his 8 INTs last year? Can\'t disagree with much else you said as I do think Brooks would be better with different coaches, but this is kinda fitting the argument to your liking as you said SYCO had done.

Also, can you find another Saints team in it\'s histor with as much talent on offense as this one? As a matter of fact, I question if you could take a team of all time greats from the entire history of the team on offense and make an offense as good as the one we have now. Brooks\' numbers are definitely a reflection of that.

[Edited on 21/10/2004 by saintswhodi]
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Old 10-21-2004, 09:15 AM   #29
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Mike D on Brooks

You\'re trying to play both sides of the fence. It doesn\'t work. Either heart, guts and leadership wins football games, or team and talent does. But you simply pick whichever item helps your agenda. Let\'s take them one by one:
Well, well well. I\'m in tears. You\'ll catch a LOT of heat for that statement, but not from me. I recognize a fellow realist when I see one.

:yourock:
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Old 10-21-2004, 04:08 PM   #30
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Mike D on Brooks

The problem you ppl have is you would rather try and make somone else look silly or try and shut them up instead of making a point. Yes Jake has been to a SuperBowl. Im not sitting here saying he is better than Brooks... However its a FACT he has been to a SuperBowl. I know he was in a better position with a better team, but wasnt he a backup at the begining of the season? However given a chance he proved he wasnt just an average backup QB. I think Brooks has more talent than Jake. He prolly has more talent than Brady too... However he hasnt been able to LEAD this team to anything. You all want to take one sentence from a post and reply on it to try and make someone look stupid. When did I say Jake was better? I didnt... I was just saying he had been to a SuperBowl.

Jake didnt have better numbers than Brooks... However he had wins. Brooks can pass the ball all over the field with our Offense. However if he cant lead us to wins he isnt a great QB. I know he has come from behind wins. Our team talent doesnt have anything to do with him winning a game in the 4th? He does play great at tymes, but he still plays average at others...

Im not just refering to one game that Brooks leadership has lead us to a lose. I know the Vikes had 605 yards... Ok so why did we lose to Tampa? Or Arizona? I know our team isnt playing great, but why is it that our DE and our QB are fighting? Brooks calling out the D maybe? Saying its their fault we lost? Do you know leaders that pick fights? The team doesnt get behind the guy then he cant lead them anywhere... I dont care how much talent a player has. If the team doesnt want to play with him he will not perform. Keyshawn Johnson didnt want to play in Tampa however you gonna tell me he isnt a solid WR? Why was he playing so bad there then? He didnt like the leadership... You think Carolina would have went to the SuperBowl with Roodney Pete? what about New England they didnt make it to the SuperBowl with Drew Bledsoe... I guess the team talent is the only reason they went... Bledsoe doesnt have a better arm than Brady right? The fact is Brady has less talent, but more leadership and heart... How many more talented QBs were there when Joe Montana played?However who was the best QB of that tyme? The thing is that it is a team game no matter how you look at it. They all have to work together so you picking on the defense isnt gonna help the Saints win. Neither will picking on the Offense... Im just saying that the Saints have more problems than just an inconsistent QB. We need to get the D playing better. We need to get some WRs to catch the balls that hit them in the hands. We need to find OL who know how to block for more than 2 seconds... The list goes on... I hope you get the point... But Im sure you wont...
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