Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham

QBREES9 · 02-04-2014, 03:26 PM

After being accused — ridiculously — of possibly hurting Jimmy Graham’s chances to make more money, Saints quarterback Drew Brees appeared on the “Dan Patrick Show” on Friday, stood on the host’s desk, and professed his hope that New Orleans re-signs his star teammate.

“I want Jimmy back!” Brees shouted atop the desk of Patrick, whose show airs on DirecTV’s Audience Network. “I want Jimmy Graham back!”

It was the absurd end to an absurd attempt by some national media members to stir up a controversy around the Saints’ most compelling off-season storyline: retaining Graham.

Brees on Wednesday repeated to NBC Sports Radio’s Erik Kuselias something that Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis had told New Orleans media at the Senior Bowl on Jan. 21: As far the team is concerned, Graham is not a wide receiver, “he is a tight end,” the quarterback said.

That’s the Saints’ stance even if Graham spends the majority of his time on the gridiron lined up as a wideout and a minority of it as an in-line tight end.

Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham: opinion | Black and Gold

Papa Voodoo · 02-04-2014, 03:31 PM

Does anyone really expect Jimmy not to be on the team next season?

RaginCajun83 · 02-04-2014, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo

Does anyone really expect Jimmy not to be on the team next season?

The idiots in the media seem to think he's gone

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-05-2014, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

The idiots in the media seem to think he's gone

Unfortunately, that's their job. Find controversy even when the reality of the situation says otherwise.

Who was the last exclusively tagged franchise player that either didn't play for the team that franchised them or actually was ransomed by another team?

SFIAH

jnormand · 02-05-2014, 12:12 AM

I'm sorry but this whole TE vs WR thing is getting annoying. Let's hurry up and get him signed so this is over with.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-05-2014, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by jnormand

I'm sorry but this whole TE vs WR thing is getting annoying. Let's hurry up and get him signed so this is over with.

It may be annoying but it's a crucial point. The franchise tag is the average salary for the top 5 players at the position. For WR that will be close to $11 million, while for TE the number is closer to $6 million.

There are two sides of the coin. The Saints want the best value. Jimmy wants the most money. Which position Jimmy gets designated to will determine his overall value.

I believe that in the end he'll be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money.

And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp. Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason.

He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money.

But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't.

Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial.

Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team.

All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates:

1) Franchise tender deadline (early March)
2) Tender signing deadline (mid June)
3) Training camp (late July)

You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise.

So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul.

SFIAH

TheOak · 02-05-2014, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

It may be annoying but it's a crucial point. The franchise tag is the average salary for the top 5 players at the position. For WR that will be close to $11 million, while for TE the number is closer to $6 million.

There are two sides of the coin. The Saints want the best value. Jimmy wants the most money. Which position Jimmy gets designated to will determine his overall value.

I believe that in the end hell be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money.

And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp. Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason.

He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money.

But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't.

Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial.

Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team.

All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates:

1) Franchise tender deadline (early March)
2) Tender signing deadline (mid June)
3) Training camp (late July)

You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise.

So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul.

SFIAH

The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team.

There is a caveat thought... and I am not sure people are taking that into consideration. The two first round draft picks have to be the offering teams "original picks". Since the stipulation is that the picks have to be original picks, the Saints do NOT get two first round draft picks in that season or any season.

So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP.

Mardigras9 · 02-05-2014, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP.

Still worth it, IMO. Brees could make another tight end look as good as he did Graham.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-05-2014, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

He (Graham) is not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money.

Originally Posted by TheOak

The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team.

I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham.

Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees.

SFIAH

TheOak · 02-05-2014, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham.

Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees.

SFIAH

Nope... Point is not valid, the scenario has to play out. If Team x offers him 6.9m a year which is above the tag but below what he expects, the Saints would match it and keep him.

For a team like Atlanta that would love nothing more than to replace Gonzo and not have to rewrite their game plan, Jimmy Graham would be worth 2 FRDPs. Any team that gives Matt Ryan 104m and Roddy White 42m would easily give up 2 FRDPs.

02-04-2014, 03:26 PM	#1
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,982	Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham After being accused — ridiculously — of possibly hurting Jimmy Graham’s chances to make more money, Saints quarterback Drew Brees appeared on the “Dan Patrick Show” on Friday, stood on the host’s desk, and professed his hope that New Orleans re-signs his star teammate. “I want Jimmy back!” Brees shouted atop the desk of Patrick, whose show airs on DirecTV’s Audience Network. “I want Jimmy Graham back!” It was the absurd end to an absurd attempt by some national media members to stir up a controversy around the Saints’ most compelling off-season storyline: retaining Graham. Brees on Wednesday repeated to NBC Sports Radio’s Erik Kuselias something that Saints General Manager Mickey Loomis had told New Orleans media at the Senior Bowl on Jan. 21: As far the team is concerned, Graham is not a wide receiver, “he is a tight end,” the quarterback said. That’s the Saints’ stance even if Graham spends the majority of his time on the gridiron lined up as a wideout and a minority of it as an in-line tight end. Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham: opinion \| Black and Gold
	www.sportsshooter.com/johnjcoleman " Anyone can take a picture Only a Photographer can take a photograph "

02-04-2014, 03:31 PM	#2
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,628	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Does anyone really expect Jimmy not to be on the team next season?

02-04-2014, 08:24 PM	#3
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by Papa Voodoo Does anyone really expect Jimmy not to be on the team next season? The idiots in the media seem to think he's gone

02-05-2014, 09:59 AM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 The idiots in the media seem to think he's gone Unfortunately, that's their job. Find controversy even when the reality of the situation says otherwise. Who was the last exclusively tagged franchise player that either didn't play for the team that franchised them or actually was ransomed by another team? SFIAH

02-05-2014, 12:12 AM	#5
jnormand 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Free State of Idaho Posts: 5,530	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham I'm sorry but this whole TE vs WR thing is getting annoying. Let's hurry up and get him signed so this is over with.

02-05-2014, 09:52 AM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by jnormand I'm sorry but this whole TE vs WR thing is getting annoying. Let's hurry up and get him signed so this is over with. It may be annoying but it's a crucial point. The franchise tag is the average salary for the top 5 players at the position. For WR that will be close to $11 million, while for TE the number is closer to $6 million. There are two sides of the coin. The Saints want the best value. Jimmy wants the most money. Which position Jimmy gets designated to will determine his overall value. I believe that in the end he'll be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money. And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp. Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason. He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money. But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't. Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial. Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team. All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates: 1) Franchise tender deadline (early March) 2) Tender signing deadline (mid June) 3) Training camp (late July) You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise. So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul. SFIAH iceshack149 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-05-2014, 10:25 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL It may be annoying but it's a crucial point. The franchise tag is the average salary for the top 5 players at the position. For WR that will be close to $11 million, while for TE the number is closer to $6 million. There are two sides of the coin. The Saints want the best value. Jimmy wants the most money. Which position Jimmy gets designated to will determine his overall value. I believe that in the end hell be the highest paid TE in NFL history. But he won't get receiver money. And trust this is not going to happen quickly. No point in hoping or praying for it. The Saints will slap Jimmy with the exclusive franchise tag. Jimmy will sign the tender (in June). They'll work it out by training camp. Jimmy will get a chance to rest that sore foot this offseason. He's not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money. But it's going to be exactly the same as Brees a couple of years ago. All the fanbase wanted was for the contract to be done quickly. It wasn't. Honestly nor should it be. This is likely Jimmy's singularly huge contract. It's both his right and frankly obligation to maximize his value. By the same token the Saints have to think about an entire organization. So maximizing the value is crucial. Both will compromise... eventually. But it's not going to be a quick process. Because if it were quick, then someone is getting screwed in the deal. The eventual deal needs to balance the needs of the player with the needs of the team. All anyone needs to do is track 3 dates: 1) Franchise tender deadline (early March) 2) Tender signing deadline (mid June) 3) Training camp (late July) You'll see some movement around those three dates, and nothing otherwise. So pack a lunch, cause it's going to be a long haul. SFIAH The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team. There is a caveat thought... and I am not sure people are taking that into consideration. The two first round draft picks have to be the offering teams "original picks". Since the stipulation is that the picks have to be original picks, the Saints do NOT get two first round draft picks in that season or any season. So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

02-05-2014, 11:55 AM	#8
Mardigras9 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Land Mass between LA and AL Posts: 4,375	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by TheOak So in all likelihood the Saints would get a 2014 FRDP and a 2015 FRDP. Still worth it, IMO. Brees could make another tight end look as good as he did Graham. halloween 65 likes this.

02-05-2014, 12:25 PM	#9
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL He (Graham) is not going anywhere. I don't think any franchise is foolish enough to give up 2 #1 draft picks for the chance to negotiate with Jimmy for WR money. Originally Posted by TheOak The team does not have that option. Once Jimmy is offered $x from another team and the offer sheet is signed, if the Saints do not match, the Saints are awarded two first round draft picks from that team. I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham. Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-05-2014, 12:41 PM	#10
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 18,978	Re: Brees theatrics are an absurd but fitting end to non-controversy involving Jimmy Graham Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I think my point is still valid. By making the offer, another franchise knows going in that the price will be 2 FRDPs. I just don't think that anyone is willing to pay that high a price for Graham. Another observation is that virtually all of the really great tight ends in the league are coupled with outstanding QBs (Graham/Brees, Gronk/Brady, Gates/Rivers, and even to some degree Gonzales/Ryan). I'm not sure that Julius Thomas has enough experience to be considered in this group and that the only exception seems to be Jordan Cameron in Cleveland. An interesting question is whether or not a team without a top flight QB would take a flyer on Graham. A second question is if Graham would be close to as productive under a QB not named Brees. SFIAH Nope... Point is not valid, the scenario has to play out. If Team x offers him 6.9m a year which is above the tag but below what he expects, the Saints would match it and keep him. For a team like Atlanta that would love nothing more than to replace Gonzo and not have to rewrite their game plan, Jimmy Graham would be worth 2 FRDPs. Any team that gives Matt Ryan 104m and Roddy White 42m would easily give up 2 FRDPs. MarchingOn likes this.

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