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Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by dizzle88 I think i get the idea but do you mean 8-8 or 9-7? Lol only 16 games buddy playoffs baby lmao thanks for catching that...

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Old 07-26-2016, 07:54 AM   #21
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
I think i get the idea but do you mean 8-8 or 9-7? Lol only 16 games buddy
playoffs baby lmao thanks for catching that
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:03 PM   #22
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

If our offense wasn't a issue then why did we draft Thomas and sign four or five olinemen after the draft?

Yeah the defense can get the ball back but short fields? Even when we got them it didn't matter last year. Maybe getting stops is one thing but still gotta be able to score at home in two of the first four possessions.
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Old 07-27-2016, 12:06 AM   #23
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
If our offense wasn't a issue then why did we draft Thomas and sign four or five olinemen after the draft?
That's not indicative of a problem. That's simply either taking the best player available or introducing new players into a system in the hope of finding a quality player. If you go back and read a lot of projections before the draft, many analyst had Thomas going in the first round. The Saints got him at 47.
Yeah the defense can get the ball back but short fields? Even when we got them it didn't matter last year. Maybe getting stops is one thing but still gotta be able to score at home in two of the first four possessions.
Can you point out an example or two?

SFIAH
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Old 07-27-2016, 03:08 AM   #24
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

The saints could go toe to toe in back and forth shootouts with Jacksonville and Green Bay at home in 2007 and 2008. If going 80 yards is the issue then maybe the real problem is special teams. The texans scored 32 points in 11 and Drew scored 40 to win. That is indicative of a powerful offense.

You are acting like the offense was fine last year and that the oline did not have enough problems to affect Drew. My guess is you are pro-Streiff. But guard play and Streif were liabilities last year for the oline. The offense would stall at the wrong time.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:29 AM   #25
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

This thread is so DUH! I'm gonna try to disagree. Last year we went 7-9 tight? #2 O, #32 D. Colby Fleener alone will vastly prove the offense. Add all the rookie offensive weapons we got and we could easily go 10-6 and make the playoffs. There were at least 3 games last year that couldve gone either way. Cooks was 3" from catching the winning TD vs Carolina. If we could find a game breaking returner and pair some great special team play with the best O in the league, it's possible. Of course, if we have the #2 ranked O again and the D climbs to say 15th, we definitely got a shot.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:17 AM   #26
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Breaux, Lewis, Williams, and Swann should be an improvement inthe secondary. Should be...I do worry about Swann and the concussions. That is usually a death sentence, but let's keep fingers crossed.
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:20 AM   #27
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
The saints could go toe to toe in back and forth shootouts with Jacksonville and Green Bay at home in 2007 and 2008. If going 80 yards is the issue then maybe the real problem is special teams. The texans scored 32 points in 11 and Drew scored 40 to win. That is indicative of a powerful offense.

You are acting like the offense was fine last year and that the oline did not have enough problems to affect Drew. My guess is you are pro-Streiff. But guard play and Streif were liabilities last year for the oline. The offense would stall at the wrong time.
I am guessing we are hoping zach can gives us one more year...I am not convinced, dude looked on his last leg last year, but let's keep fingers crossed.
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Old 07-27-2016, 11:21 AM   #28
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
The saints could go toe to toe in back and forth shootouts with Jacksonville and Green Bay at home in 2007 and 2008.
Note that neither of the 2007 nor 2008 teams had a winning record.
If going 80 yards is the issue then maybe the real problem is special teams.
Special teams is a part of it. The other part is that turnovers contribute to shorter fields too. That's a defensive issue.
The texans scored 32 points in 11 and Drew scored 40 to win. That is indicative of a powerful offense.
It is also indicative of a porous defense that gave up 32 points.

You are acting like the offense was fine last year and that the oline did not have enough problems to affect Drew. My guess is you are pro-Streiff. But guard play and Streif were liabilities last year for the oline. The offense would stall at the wrong time.
Worrying about the Saints offense in the last 2 years is like worrying about a hangnail on the toe of a leg that's been blown off at the knee. There are much bigger issues to worry about.

There have been 50 Superbowls. There has been exactly one Superbowl champion that didn't have a top 10 scoring defense. Offenses have been all over the place, but having a defense that can stop people is a consistent theme in playing championship football.

The Saints were last in defensive scoring last year, by nearly 2 PPG giving up nearly 30 PPG. 476 points. The Saints have never had a winning record in the last 10 years when the defense has given up more than 350 points in a season, no matter how the offense did.

So compared to the two of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL, then yes the offense is fine.

The difference between the two of us is likely exhibited in the Giants game last year. You probably think that was a great game because the offense scored 52 points and 7 TDs. I thought it was a total debacle because the defense couldn't make a stop and gave up 49 points.

As of Strief, he is servicable but cannot handle elite edge rushing talent anymore. That can be managed with chipping help from backs or keeping in a tight end to help. But it's unrealistic that Brees is going to have a 7 step drop with 5 in the pattern and Strief keeping elite rushers like JJ Watt or Von Miller from getting around the edge and getting to Brees. Of course there are probably only 5 right tackles in the league that even have a chance of doing that.

So to summarize, an all pro offense with no defense doesn't win championships. An excellent offense coupled with defense that can get off the field and take the ball away can. The Saints were the latter combination in 2009. They were nothing like that in 2015. There is no improvement on the offense, no receiver, no lineman, no back, nothing, that would significantly change the dynamic from the last 2 years. The only thing that will lift the Saints out from 7-9 or 8-8 is getting the defense down to around 21 points of scoring defense and top 10 in turnovers.

So that's why I sigh when I hear "replace Strief", "draft Treadwell", "sign Bolden", "get a veteran mentor for the receivers" or frankly any other offensive change that somehow is going to make the Saints a championship squad, when there's is 10 years of evidence that it makes no real difference.

SFIAH
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:31 PM   #29
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

Originally Posted by billyt81 View Post
This thread is so DUH! I'm gonna try to disagree. Last year we went 7-9 tight? #2 O, #32 D. Colby Fleener alone will vastly prove the offense. Add all the rookie offensive weapons we got and we could easily go 10-6 and make the playoffs. There were at least 3 games last year that couldve gone either way. Cooks was 3" from catching the winning TD vs Carolina. If we could find a game breaking returner and pair some great special team play with the best O in the league, it's possible. Of course, if we have the #2 ranked O again and the D climbs to say 15th, we definitely got a shot.
Let's compare last year's offensive stats to 2014's Green Bay, Dallas, and Indy.

As for Fleener, he should give us more quickness but it is debatable if he has a real advantage over Watson. Also we don't have the protection to really throw deep. Payton said himself that speed is a bonus, he wants physical ability.

Yes Cooks was inches away but still the saints knew Norman was a shutdown corner and threw at him anyway. He had just shut down Hopkins the previous week and kept Robsinson in check.
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:53 PM   #30
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Re: Saints will be sunk again without an improved defense

I was not on the Boldin bandwagon.

And yes I know we need defense. But how about when the defense did its part in games the last two years for the offense to do nothing? We have no big time players on defense outside a few that can withstand constantly being put back on the field. A defense being worn down and tired cannot make those plays. The offense has not been kind to the defense in recent years. The defense early last year did have moments of looking good. We allowed big plays to Zona but we kept them out of the endzone for two straight quarters only to just kick FGs. TB we were up 6-3 before things got out of hand. The defense did what it could but the offense never responded and because Drew was playing hurt. Defense then gets gassed for a q and a half and allows 23 points. Then we get back to back turnovers and force a missed FG. What do we do with these opportunities? The offense lost the first couple of games more than the defense. I'm sorry but if SP could not move the ball against Arizona to extend drives then maybe he's not the offensive genius he's been made to be. We had every opportunity to take the lead if only we had someone who could catch a deep ball.

So I guess if the defense doesn't get turnovers at the other team's 30 then the offense will be the same as it was last year.
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