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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; thanks for the follow up. there is merit but i cannot say it turned me out of the predraft blues to gumbo giddiness. i am not overly keen to translating football sabermatically like baseball. they have a place but are ...

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Old 03-09-2005, 10:55 PM   #11
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thanks for the follow up. there is merit but i cannot say it turned me out of the predraft blues to gumbo giddiness. i am not overly keen to translating football sabermatically like baseball. they have a place but are not effective in reflecting all aspects of play, ie blown assignments or missed blocks, etc. it is a highly integrated team game that depends on a cohesive and coordinated effort to be successful. the transformation and improvement of the secondary was seen in play and personnel. now with smith only more is expected. improvement was seen among the linebackers but they are all young and learning not proven veterans. allen has the not so bright tag, bock and coutney still need to develop physically as well. my initial complaint was not so much what sort of personnel moves had or had not been made though. my beef is the degree of agressiveness in the market to get readily identified difference making impact players. there is an ebb and flow to talent in the cap environment. it is time to emphasize pushing harder for now than building longterm within this organization imo. i just don\'t see enough of it.
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:16 PM   #12
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I wouldn\'t get worked up either way over what has or hasn\'t happened at this point. Like Whodi said earlier, there\'s a lot of dealing to be done before the final roster is set in September. Taking what\'s happened in the first week of FA is like getting upset over the first drive of the saints going 3 and out. Looks bad, but there\'s still 59 minutes left. And I\'ll even venture to say that the O has improved a little while the D has addressed a significant outstanding issue.
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Old 03-09-2005, 11:23 PM   #13
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XAN, maybe you meant the Saints going 1ST and out the entire 1st Quarter.
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Old 03-10-2005, 08:52 AM   #14
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Trading Howard is a great idea... right up until Will Smith tears a hamstring or blows out an ACL. Scary thought huh?

I actually agree with Haslett (which is rare), when he says that you cannot have enough talent up front.

People - Pease\'s system is one of constant rotation which requires a lot of depth all across the D-line. Personally, I don\'t want to see Howard go anywhere. I want the Saints to sign him to a long-term contract.

Even if the Saints trade Howard, I am not convinced that they will acquire a better or even equal player. Same is true in the draft. I understand people saying that IF the Saints trade Howard and move up in the draft they COULD draft DJ. It\'s just not realistic to me. They COULD HAVE drafted Trufant over Sully too. Look at their \"big-name\" FA signings in the last few years... Conwell? Tebucky Jones? David Sloan? I mean, those aren\'t great moves. Maybe you can say Pathon and McKenzie were good. No argument. Stecker, I think, was a good move. But Gandy, Rodgers, Ruff, Riley, Bouman, Young, Connell, and Ambrose were all of minimal to negative impact.

Likewise, look at their use of first round draft picks. Deuce - Great. Stallworth - average. Grant - good. Sully - terrible. Smith - good. So it\'s not like they\'re knocking the ball out of the park in that arena either.


If people are concerned about the future of the team, I understand. If you\'re looking out and saying - man, Horn, Deuce, Bentley, Stallworth, a new need at WR, TE, Howard, Grant, McKenzie, major needs at LB - how can we possibly sign all these guys and not blow the cap? The answer is - we can\'t. There will be loses. This is why I feel that the Saints may have already missed their window to add the LBs and DTs that they need to be true contenders. They had the YOUNG and INEXPENSIVE talent 3 years ago. All they had to do was sign a few proven vets at key spots and they could have been SB bound. They probably still could be, but 3 years from now this team will look very different IMO. Too much talent, not enough $$.

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Old 03-10-2005, 09:12 AM   #15
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Trading Howard is a great idea... right up until Will Smith tears a hamstring or blows out an ACL. Scary thought huh?
And how is this different than now when Howard is generally more hurt than he is on the field? The last two years he has missed 11 FULL games and various parts of others. Is it better to pay him top dollar in the hope he doesn\'t get hurt and can be used IN A ROTATION, or trade him off for value and free that money up? I would rather not tie my money up on a hope of a player who has seen a lot of injuries lately. But that\'s just me.
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:18 AM   #16
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i think your thought about the window closing is very true whodat. thus, i think it should be all out this year or bust. they arent gonna do that but i still would like to see as much push for now as possible. whether 12-4 or 4-12 this year i do think there may only be one more year after this before overhaul is necessitated by the cap.
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:24 AM   #17
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And how is this different than now when Howard is generally more hurt than he is on the field? The last two years he has missed 11 FULL games and various parts of others. Is it better to pay him top dollar in the hope he doesn\'t get hurt and can be used IN A ROTATION, or trade him off for value and free that money up? I would rather not tie my money up on a hope of a player who has seen a lot of injuries lately. But that\'s just me.
Not an unfair statement. Then again, despite injuries in 2004, he still lead the team in sacks. What did he have? 11 sacks in as many starts? Just imagine what he could do if healthy and well rested with Smith or Whitehead behind him.
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:27 AM   #18
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I dodn\'t disagree with that Who. But he will command starter money in a rotation. Now smart for us. As I have asked several times, what happens when Charles Grant is due? Do we franchise him and try to trade Grant? I\'d rather him than Howard. If we pay Howard now, we are buying trouble for later. also, how do we resign Deuce, LeCharles, and Horn and MM if we keep Howard? Can we pay them in Po-Boys? Howard has to go if this team is to move forward. Sad, but reality.
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:45 AM   #19
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I can go either way on trading Howard. Howards got the organization by the nads and is taking advantage of the situation and I don\'t think from a buisness stand point anyone can blame him.

There are pro\'s and con\'s on both sides of the fence. Its hard for me to get rid of proven talent and pick up a 3rd rounder whom will not be ready to step onto the field yet, most need time to develop. What I feel is that you have to use your talent the best way you can... you have to put them in positions to make plays. Having a Smith rotate to different positions, creating havoc blitzing seems the way to go at this point, resting LB\'s and DE\'s is choice. The opposing offense more concern with where Smith is lining up at to blitz poses a distraction... distractions are good.

Ideal, the Saints should have gone after him and got him signed to a long term deal. We are going to be forced to either trade him for a 3-4 pick or simply cut him. Trading him after the draft or even closer to June 1 gets us diddelpoop. A pic for next year? Talent another team is willing to part with? Its a waste of good talnet.

E U P H O R I A
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Old 03-10-2005, 09:56 AM   #20
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euph, i would say it a little different than you in today\'s nfl. instead of \"...use your talent the best way you can\" better i believe is \"use your money the best way you can\". i love howard and the talent at de. but for 10% of a teams cap i do not think he is enough. that money could be better spent elsewhere. and as who pointed out the squeeze for money isnt gonna get better or easier. the team must act proactively or you end up 5-11 like the titans and mega millions over the cap. i forget the number, dont they have 10-20million of cap money tied up with players no longer on the team? get a second rounder that costs little, spend 4mil on another de if that\'s what ya want and then have some millions left over to deal with other biz or improvements.
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