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Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Driving the car and building the car are two way different phases - Rob is driving Rex's defense... Someone(s) in this organization drove the Saints picks for three years as we acquired front seven pieces for a base 3-4 defense... ...

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Old 10-18-2016, 04:35 AM   #11
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

Driving the car and building the car are two way different phases - Rob is driving Rex's defense...

Someone(s) in this organization drove the Saints picks for three years as we acquired front seven pieces for a base 3-4 defense...

On the line, Cam Jordan, at his age, speed, skill-set is a better fit for a 3-4; he's too damn slow as a 4-3 and is horrible in space...

Spent a third round pick on a good 3-4 defensive end in Akiem Hicks; let go for a blocking tight end?!?

Plus we carelessly let geaux another good lineman in Tyrunn Walker (who we could now clearly use)...

John Jenkins is and was supposed to be a 3-4 NT (he had actually had a good rookie season); and then we started fooling with him, not to mention injuries; he was another two-draft pick investment...

We drafted really good 3-4 linebackers in Hau'oli Kikaha, Davis Tull and Stephone Anthony; and we had a good spare part in Kasim Edebali...

All that clearly changed this year with Dennis Allen, clearly in charge, and hell-bent to build a 4-3 base defense; like it or not, but there's a clear plan now...

So despite all the "meddling" the past two seasons, we're really only one year into building the 4-3 defense, so expecting things to turn around right away is unrealistic, at least for another year or two...

“Your best?!? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home (with) the prom queen.” - Sean Connery in The Rock

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Old 10-18-2016, 05:03 AM   #12
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
This is speculation on my part, but maybe Rob trying to "get weird" would have worked if the reports are true about Payton changing the D.

Who knows, just seems a bit weird that Buffalo is playing lights out now and our D is just as bad as when Rob was here.
Well for jets Rex is a pretty good guy with defenses, if i am remembering right, pretty good with the ravens

Rob had 1 or 2 top 10 defenses in all his years as a dcoord.

We haven't had all the lineup issues or probs getting people on the field.

I just am not so sure it is Sean's fault. Rob seemed to have these same issues each place he went. I hated the pick, was happy to eat crow in '13, but then it just became a disaster after that.

we will probably know the entire story, but if sean is getting involved he needs to stick to the offense

If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:48 AM   #13
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

the 43 switch is the key.

a depleted secondary is a killer

on thew bright side the bench is getting a ton of playing time for 2017

Stephone Anthony? trade bait? i am stumped.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:25 AM   #14
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

Defense is still bad but hopefully we get Breaux & Rankins back soon.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:51 PM   #15
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

As far as the offense goes, Pete Carmichael has said in interviews, that the historical pattern of the Saints offense is, either one of two things happens: typically, it's either a 3-and-out, or POINTS. It's been that way for a long time, since he got here. If they can get a couple of first downs, get something moving, it opens up the plays down the field, Drew starts to do his thing, the running game starts tearing off big runs, and it is usually off to the races after that. We've all seen that.

Then, they have occasional lulls where the offense seems to pull a Rip Van Winkle -- it's like they fall asleep, and then suddenly late in the game they will wake up and remember they are awesome. That's also been that way as long as Carmichael's been here, maybe longer.

The question is really WHEN the 3-and-outs happen. Sometimes they happen in the first quarter, and the Saints fall behind and get into a hole. Definitely we have seen that. Sometimes they happen in the second half, like you mentioned. Sometimes they are sprinkled oddly throughout the game, and we don't notice them very much.

But this "3 and out, or points" thing they do, it really is a THING. It is also related to why the Saints have such troubles with ball control -- how many times have you seen them need that one big, long, time-consuming drive at the end of games, to put the thing away, and they somehow don't do it, and give the ball back to the other team with time left on the clock? Many MANY times.

They have had 3-and-out lulls all the time, during games, including in 2009 and 2011 -- but when you have a defense that is SO BAD that the other team scores at will, every time, then NO early lead is safe, no matter how big.

At the end of the day, the defense is still terrible. Even at their most inspired, when they are playing way above their heads, this defense is only mediocre. There is no one on this defense, including the injured players, who keeps opponents awake at night, worrying during the week. They don't disrupt; they don't get turnovers, they don't get pressure. They don't intimidate; they do anything remotely noteworthy at all. (It likely won't get better until we have more of our dead money back, to pay for better players and depth, but that's another thread).

Bottom line, this defense doesn't win games. Drew and the offense bails them out and wins games. Sunday was proof of that.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:19 PM   #16
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

On the 3 and outs also need to look where on the field they occur and what happened on the first play. I'm going to say majority of the time we are backed up on our end of the field and there is usually a penalty to start the drive and put us behind on down and distance. As for DA and the defense it's kind of tough to be hard on him with all the injuries we have right now on D. If we can somehow be 4-4 and get Rankins and Breaux back I think we have a dam good shot to go 10-6.

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Old 10-20-2016, 04:40 AM   #17
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

Simply no consistency on the defensive side of the ball.
Revolving door every season and then ALL season.
Consistently on offense: Payton's scheme and Brees making it work.
Duece, Reggie, Sproles, PT, Ingram, Shockey, Graham, Colston, Lance, ...didn't matter...
Payton's scheme with Brees making it work with whatever they had.
Defense not so. It's been a hodge-podge patch work piece of chit since 2006.
The pieces fit pretty good for maybe 4 of those years.
Vilma solidified a decent group until the injuries took him out.
There has been a different leak in the bucket it seems every year.
How many DQs do you try before you get frustrated enough to want to do it yourself?
The tackling and coverage has been equally bad under DA, Ryan, Spags, Williams, ...
At least Williams disguised and masked the deficiencies with pressure.
I'm sure Payton would gladly stay out of it and not even think about it if he could.
When 31 points a week isn't enough, Damn.

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Old 10-20-2016, 12:48 PM   #18
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Re: Just a thought regarding Sean Payton and the Defense

Don't fix things that ain't broke....2013 D was solid. Then it got weird alright. 2007 and 2008 are also horrible D years under Payton.
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